Is there a real chance of communion between the Catholic Church and the orthodox?

[steve-b]

steve-b:

The 5th century when the Pentarchy was invented by the East?

Invented

ZP

According to then Card Ratzinger, the Pentarchy wasn’t there before the 5th century.

 

[Hume]

As he surely ment “as a formal institution”, he’s surely right.

 

[Michael16]

@Hume and @steve-b,

Of course, we must accept all of Scripture. Of course, I know that Jesus gave what He gave to Saint Peter. Hume, I couldn’t find in Saint Matthew 17 or 18 Jesus giving the keys to the whole Church. Only binding and loosing.

So, I’m left with: Only to Saint Peter did Our Lord give the keys and say upon Saint Peter will He build His Church. The keys must be separate from the power to bind and loose. Upon Saint Peter is the earthly headship of the Church.
Ergo; the other Apostles must be hierarchically under Saint Peter.

So, the questions are: What is the nature of the keys? What is the exact nature of Saint Peter’s Office as head of the Church?

 

[Michael16]

@Hume and @steve-b,

To be fair, the Pentarchy wasn’t invented. It was the reality of the early Church. Those five were the Apostolic Sees and thus the highest Sees. With Rome being first.

 

[Michael16]

Also, @Hume; I wanted to touch upon that in my way to Rome, one of the draws was the way the Church does thorough and solid scholarly work in every area within the Church.

Also, one of the most powerful spiritual experiences I ever had, in part; was the realization that God is thoroughly rational and consistent.

 

[ziapueblo]

Sure, The Council of Trullo, but I wouldn’t say it was “invented.”

Z

 

[EndTimes]

I mean, is it possible that, having their cultural and liturgical practices respected as Eastern Catholics have, the orthodox accepts Papal authority and everything else and return to communion with the Catholic Church? Is something that we can reasonably hope?

[Is there a real chance of communion between the Catholic Church and the orthodox?]

It’s a bit complex - especially because quite recently - even the Orthodox are experiencing serious troubles amongst themselves.

That said, Of course there’s a chance of call it - more overall agreements - than already exists.

And There’s been very interesting ongoing dialoguing wrt the Filioloque Question…

So, who knows, as Evil Increases perhaps those who aren’t so Evil shall move closer to each other. .

_

 

[Hume]

Sure, and from my own studies (admittedly as a protestant at the time) the power if the keys is binding and loosing.

It’s what you do with keys. Open, shut. Lock, unlock. Bind, loose.

Of course, I didn’t have a religious incentive at the time to separate them. And as it was in a protestant educational setting, maybe the opposite is true.

Can’t be known for sure.

 

[ziapueblo]

It’s a bit complex - especially because quite recently - even the Orthodox are experiencing serious troubles amongst themselves.

There’s always trouble within the Church, Roman Catholic or Orthodox.

ZP

 

[Michael16]

@Hume,

I’m thinking the nature of the keys is more like that of the royal chamberlain. A steward of the royal house. That the keys are access to heaven.

As for your Protestant background, I understand where you’re coming from. Their view of the papacy is skewed and based on polemics and misunderstanding; they sought to eliminate the papacy. Whereas the East doesn’t seek an elimination of the papacy; just questioning what his exact jurisdiction is regarding the whole Church.

 

[Hume]

Maybe. But also maybe not. They may have some incentive to separate what shouldn’t be separated.

But maybe Catholics have some incentive to join what shouldn’t be joined. shrug

As for the Chamberlain example, it’s just another way of saying what I said about keys. As all apostles could hear confession and forgive sins, they all had the “keys” to heaven as well.

 

[Michael16]

Interesting point, @Hume. Care to elaborate?

 

[Hume]

Specifically what part? If you talking about the power to forgive sins, I’ll have to dig up the old scripture reference, probably from Paul and that will take time. I’m out with my mobile and the wife is driving to a family function

 

[steve-b]

@Hume and @steve-b,

To be fair, the Pentarchy wasn’t invented. It was the reality of the early Church. Those five were the Apostolic Sees and thus the highest Sees. With Rome being first.

Re: Pentarchy, Depends on how early one goes back

 

[Hume]

That’s true. In the very beginning, the preeminent see was Jerusalem, obviously.

 

[Michael16]

The chamberlain part. I understand about the car thing. Take your time.

 

[EndTimes]

There’s always trouble within the Church, Roman Catholic or Orthodox.

For Centuries - the Enemies of Christ attack them from within and without

In the end - they (the enemies) shall ultimately and finally Fail.

 

[Isaac14]

So I responded by giving quotes… Are those quotes from me? No

What, then, are you trying to communicate with what you’ve quoted? Since I asked what is your opinion, it would seem reasonable for me to assume what you quote reflects your opinion, no?

 

[AlNg]

…<<Rome need not ask for more. Reunion could take place in this context if, on the one hand, the East would cease to oppose as heretical the developments that took place in the West in the second millennium>>

I don’t think that is going to happen anytime soon, if ever.

 

[AlNg]

This was a huge struggle in the Byzantine Catholic Church my family and I used to attend (we will be received into the Orthodox faith soon).

What do you see as the advantage of being Orthodox rather than Byzantine Catholic?
Also do you go through a ceremony such as chrismation, etc., or is it just confession.