Is there a Violence in the Bible

[gurrato_alaien]

inJESUS:

gurrato, why do you repeat the same verses you used on the corruption thread and which did NOT prove corruption? am starting to be convinced that talking to muslims is useless.

Actually I posted it for another member bro/ sis Eden if you don’t convinced then this is your problem.

Peace.

 

[cestusdei]

Muhammed merciful? I think not. Jesus was merciful. The quran is simply false. We have no ones word, other then Muhammeds (cpuh), that it is anything other then his own invention. We don’t even know if it is the same now as when he first made it up. Uthman changed it a great deal. I prefer to trust the Bible which at least has some pedigree.

 

[George_Waters]

jcaz:

Booklover:

Hah!

Done what?

All he did is completely sidestep answering my post and the challenge.

I DO NOT CARE if you want to argue that certain Islamic verses are “eternal” and that certain Christian verses are “merely commands” to a certain people and a certain place.

THE BOTTOM LINE

, is that your God, the Christian God, ACCORDING TO YOUR BOOK, COMMANDED the SLAUGHTERING of INNOCENT BABIES!

Babies! Infants! Your God commanded the SLAUGHTER of INFANTS!

And you will NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER find a verse in the Quraan that even comes remotely close to comparing to this level of utter violence.

And NO, this is NOT irrelavent. How can any sane person consider the SLAUGHTER of INNOCENT BABIES as irrelevant?

When one innocent child is murdered, that story is plastered, for good reason, all of news channels across America. This is FAR FROM IRREVELANT.

Your God COMMANDED the SLAUGHTERING of INNOCENT BABIES!

You will try to sidestep this over and over and over.

Because the reality is, you cannot accept and deal with this.

Rather, you will point back to the Quraan and try to redirect the attention.

Good move! Understandably, the best you can do. But verily, people are not stupid and they can discern truth from falsehood.

jcaz,

You and I have dealt with each other with respect and courtesy on this forum. We have both tried to stick to the facts of a given topic. I must respectfully point out to you the fact that Mohammed ordered the systematic slaughter of the Jews of Northern Arabia, beginning by exterminating the Quraiza tribe. After that he invited a delegation from a Jewish community at Khaibar to peace negotiations and when they arrived unarmed had them all (except one who escaped) killed. He then attacked and destroyed the whole community justifying his treachery by saying, “War is deception.” He had the whole community destroyed, men women, children and infants.

So gurrato alaien can tell us the Quran only justifies wars in self defense all he wants, and to try and prove that Christians are more violent than Muslims, but the bottom line is your great prophet and whom I’ve read was the perfect Muslim, ordered the slaughter of infants, Jesus never did such a despicable thing. This is a fact, so before we go throwing stone we should know our history, eh gurrato alaien?

I sincerely hope no one tries to justify the killing of infants nor to point out that others have done the same thing as while that may be a fact it is no excuse for this more heinous form of murder.

 

[inJESUS]

gurrato alaien:

This is not true prophet Muhammad pbuh used to command his people before going to the battle: " don’t kill children, don’t kill women, don’t kill old men, don’t cut tree or burn trees and don’t destroy houses and don’t attack them at night it will be bad for women and children", and so on, see how he was merciful even in the battle.

Peace.

but i provided another hadith when mohamad included children and women and said : they are from them.

But nevermind, if mohammad did not give this as commandmant but did it anyway, God as well did not give it as a commandmant but Moses did it because the situation asked for it, not because God allows killing…Moses and all the prophets made many things that God did not order, not to defy God, but because they had to deal with special situations…in the same way mohammad attributed his actions to Allah, Moses as well attributed them to God…but Jesus said what God truly wants : no eye for eye, no killing in the name of God…am not saying Moses is a liar, but am trying to explain that God does not change , but “our” perception of Him does…that’s why, to understand who God truly is, you must finish the OT, you find the complete truth in the NT…thats what Jesus did, he came to fulfill the OT and give us the Truth.The perception of God was fulfilled by Jesus… He alone met the true Law.

 

[inJESUS]

gurrato alaien:

Actually I posted it for another member bro/ sis Eden if you don’t convinced then this is your problem.

Peace.

the problem is that am not the only one not convinced…they can all read the thread about corruption from islamic point of view and judge.

 

[Eden]

gurrato alaien:

Actually I posted it for another member bro/ sis Eden if you don’t convinced then this is your problem.

Peace.

Convinced? It never states that the Bible is corrupt in the Quran. That is a fact.

 

[Eireann]

gurrato alaien:

This is not true prophet Muhammad pbuh used to command his people before going to the battle: " don’t kill children, don’t kill women, don’t kill old men, don’t cut tree or burn trees and don’t destroy houses and don’t attack them at night it will be bad for women and children", and so on, see how he was merciful even in the battle.

Peace.

--------------

We just saw how peaceful it was during the release of that, umm terribly obscene cartoon. :ehh:

So it’s ok to kill **some **people in battle ?

 

[George_Waters]

gurrato alaien:

This is not true prophet Muhammad pbuh used to command his people before going to the battle: " don’t kill children, don’t kill women, don’t kill old men, don’t cut tree or burn trees and don’t destroy houses and don’t attack them at night it will be bad for women and children", and so on, see how he was merciful even in the battle.

Peace.

Merciful in battle? Would you like to define mercy? The Jewish Qurayzah tribe did not take part of the Battle of the Trench, but was according to Islamic sources secretly allied with the confederation who did. Muhammed ordered all the men of this tribe killed and the women and children sold. You call that self-defense? Sounds more like vengence and opportunitistic greed. Did Jesus ever have all the men of a trible slaughtered?

 

[George_Waters]

Let’s cut to the chase. The whole point of this thread is to prove that the Bible is more violent than the Quran and by association Christians and Jews are more violent than Muslims. Forget current history, let’s just focus on the past.

It is ironic that Muslims believe the Bible is corrupted, but would never claim that a verse that appears to support their assertion is corrupted, as is the case here. Secondly, **there is only one God ** so the God that ordered “…numerous examples… of grotesque and unwarranted violence against innocent people…” as gurrato alaien put it is the same God that Muslim’s worship.

So is the Bible corrupted and not to be taken as a reliable source by anyone and for any reason at anytime or do Muslim’s wish to disassociate themselves with God by claiming a different god from “…the Israelites and their God” or is this simply an attempt to appear guilt-free by finger pointing?

 

[onesimplemind]

George Waters:

So is the Bible corrupted and not to be taken as a reliable source by anyone and for any reason at anytime or do Muslim’s wish to disassociate themselves with God by claiming a different god from “…the Israelites and their God” or is this simply an attempt to appear guilt-free by finger pointing?

Sura Ankabut 29:46 “And dispute ye not with the people of the book but say: We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and that which came down to you.”

According to the Koran, us “people of the book” have a reliable revelation and since our “book” has existing greek and hebrew texts that are older than the Koran, the Bible is, technically accurate according to the Koran.

 

[gurrato_alaien]

inJESUS:

the problem is that am not the only one not convinced…they can all read the thread about corruption from islamic point of view and judge.

If some other christians keep ignoring. that don’t refute the truth that corruption the bible is mentioned in the quran.

but let us take it easy, now regardless whether or not were mentioned.
don’t you beleive in Trinity? and its not even mentioned in the bible despite the christianity is based on it, and don’t tell me you can get it from the meanings, so you can also think the same thing regarding the bible’s corruption.

So your argument is baseless. as usual .

Peace.

 

[gurrato_alaien]

onesimplemind:

Sura Ankabut 29:46 “And dispute ye not with the people of the book but say: We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and that which came down to you.”

According to the Koran, us “people of the book” have a reliable revelation and since our “book” has existing greek and hebrew texts that are older than the Koran, the Bible is, technically accurate according to the Koran.

Wrong again, because Quran refer to the original bible not nowdays bible

Peace.

 

[gurrato_alaien]

To brother inJESUS,

the bible itself has admitted that its corrupted:

How can you say, ‘We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us’? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes **has made it into a lie. **
(From the RSV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"

Peace.

 

[inJESUS]

If some other christians keep ignoring. that don’t refute the truth that corruption the bible is mentioned in the quran.

we don’t ignore cuz even if the quran says it is indeed corrupt we don’t care cuz mohammad has absolutely no credibility…but the point is : does it indeed say the Bible is corrupt? no… you can still refute the thread of corruption instead of repeating the same claims everywhere.

but let us take it easy, now regardless whether or not were mentioned.
don’t you beleive in Trinity? and its not even mentioned in the bible despite the christianity is based on it, and don’t tell me you can get it from the meanings, so you can also think the same thing regarding the bible’s corruption

you must be kidding. the doctrine is there, but the Bible corruption idea is NOT there…did mohammad ask you to read and revere a corrupt book? you’ll say no…so i reply : so the Bible is not corrupt…

but you’'ll tell me then : it is not the same Bible !

so i’ll tell you : first make up your miind which one is it is it corrupt or is it a different Bible ?
and then prove to us that this famous Bible existed …you haven’t for thousands of years…it seems allah failed to preserve his Book despite the fact he said he does? if you can’t prove it, then you are rejecting the Biible without proof . And as we said, we indeed believe in God who keeps His word, donno about you

 

[inJESUS]

gurrato alaien:

To brother inJESUS,

the bible itself has admitted that its corrupted:

How can you say, ‘We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us’? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes **has made it into a lie. **
(From the RSV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"

Peace.

indeed? read this then :

answering-islam.org.uk/BibleCom/jer8_8_ss.html

try to understand it, we believe in an omnipotent God who said He keeps His Word and he did…donno about your deity, but our God does not lie.

And according to your logic, i’ll claim the quran is corrupt from this verse:

"(Of just such wrath) as We sent down on those who divided (Scripture into arbitrary parts), (So also on such) as have made Qur’an into shreds (as they please).

does this sound very intelligent ? no , it sounds hopeless.

 

[George_Waters]

gurrato alaien:

If some other christians keep ignoring. that don’t refute the truth that corruption the bible is mentioned in the quran.

but let us take it easy, now regardless whether or not were mentioned.
don’t you beleive in Trinity? and its not even mentioned in the bible despite the christianity is based on it, and don’t tell me you can get it from the meanings, so you can also think the same thing regarding the bible’s corruption.

So your argument is baseless. as usual .

Peace.

Come on inJesus, if something doesn’t literally spell it out for them they won’t/can’t/refuse to believe anything! Literalism at it’s finest… once again!

Can you produce an original Quran proving corruption of the Bible? Oh, that’s right all the originals were intentionally destroyed!

 

[George_Waters]

gurrato alaien:

Wrong again, because Quran refer to the original bible not nowdays bible

Peace.

Do you have an original Bible to prove corruption? No? As r.gonzales always used to say, if you are indeed truthful bring your evidence. No Muslim has ever been able to prove this, but you keep telling yourself this is the truth and maybe, just mabe you’ll someday believe it!

 

[George_Waters]

George Waters:

Merciful in battle? Would you like to define mercy? The Jewish Qurayzah tribe did not take part of the Battle of the Trench, but was according to Islamic sources secretly allied with the confederation who did. Muhammed ordered all the men of this tribe killed and the women and children sold. You call that self-defense? Sounds more like vengence and opportunitistic greed. Did Jesus ever have all the men of a trible slaughtered?

gurrato alaien, are you going to address this or can we put this down as one more thing Muslims won’t admit even though history is clear?

 

[inJESUS]

gurrato alaien:

Wrong again, because Quran refer to the original bible not nowdays bible

Peace.

hehe i don’t know if am the only who reads some schysophrenic answers here…Gurrato, make up your mind bro is the Bible corrupt or is it not the same Bible? you can’t claim both and you can’t chose both ideas when it suits you either the Bible is corrupt, or it is not but it disappeared for 3000 years despite the fact that allah said he keeps the Bible…in both cases, allah turns out to be an utter failure.

 

[George_Waters]

onesimplemind:

Sura Ankabut 29:46 “And dispute ye not with the people of the book but say: We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and that which came down to you.”

According to the Koran, us “people of the book” have a reliable revelation and since our “book” has existing greek and hebrew texts that are older than the Koran, the Bible is, technically accurate according to the Koran.

Do you think we can get our friend gurrato alaien to admit this brother?