That is true, but there cannot be a Resurrection without the Crucifixion. Recall St. Paul’s words: “I preach Christ crucified.” While we are at the Resurrection, the Holy Sacrifice is very much about the Sacrifice of Calvary. It is unfortunate that many of our parishes today have forgotten about that.
I believe Pope Benedict will be making very strong statements too!
As Father Corapi says:
As Stone Cold Steve Austin would say (paraphrased, of course), can you give me a BIG YES?
Although, I do have visions of Simon Le Bon serving as a cantor and Nick Rhodes playing the organ. I best be going to my animal shelter benefit rock concert. I need to seriuosly let off some steam (thanks to the USCCB )Great…wonderful…Is sin communal? Is the particular judgement a communal event? Again what is the pinnacle of focus during the holy sacrifice of the mass? Again…what if the mass is celebrated by a single mortal priest without a congregation?
Great this is a diverse group…no doubt. Since you are a Catholic I am almost certain that you believe Artificial Contraception is a grave matter and an intrinsic evil…right? Of course I don’t need to remind you that you are bound to believe that…right?//
Yet the Bible says that God will saw off the horns of the wicked. tu fan? That explains a lot.
Nobody here has said anything about celebrating the Mass alone (although, in theory you are not alone because the entire Church (Triumphant, Militant and Suffering) is present. What I am trying to say, at least individually, is that when the COMMUNITY takes on a greater emphasis than the HOLY SACRIFICE, then there is a serious problem. When the hymns, like Gather Us In, Come to the Feast and O Love of God, focus on what we’re about and about US, and not on GOD, then there is a serious problem.
Who’s posts in this thread as been boarderline heretical? I am just curious because I haven’t seen it.
You can’t mandate what others think or feel is focusing on God. Is it your opinion that Come to the Feast is not focused on God but the faithful. If the Church decides to take those songs out then that’s fine but in the mean time I think it is wrong to decide if others are over emphasizing the community by what songs they pick. It seems judgmental to me.
I still stand by my statements, which, I believe, also concur with statements that the Holy Father has made about “community.” I will ask you what I asked Matthew, have you picked up and read any of Pope Benedict’s statements and writings on the Mass? If you accuse me of being judgmental, how are you going to take what he says?
No I have not read it. What difference would it make if I did? I feel you have already made up your mind about Catholics “going a stray” and not doing what you want them to do or what you think is Catholic enough.
I really agree with you here. I do not think Catholics are as stupid as many people seem to think. I think what is misleading most Catholics are priest that are not orthodox in their faith. The unorthodox homilies are what damages the faith, not music. Where the priest is orthodox an a solid catechist, I do not think their is the danger of misinterpreting lyrics.
I think the line “We come to taste the presence” is on of the better lines in the newer music. But I think it is a little inaccurate to say it is a matter of taste. I think it would be better to say it is a matter of prudence and judgement.
I am almost done with “Spirit of the Liturgy.” It gives a good historical context for how we worship that I find helpful. In relation to this current question, there is no doubt that the Holy Father believes in a communal side of the Mass. Overemphasis is still up for grabs in this discussion.
Are Catholics going astray? Do they know the Catholic faith or are they ignorant? One thing is certain. The Church is in crisis. How many billions have seen wasted on lawsuits and scandal, properties sold off and how many discraced clergy will it take to realize it? How many priests have fallen, and bishops as well? The divorce rate among Catholics approaches that of the rest of the population, 50% plus. Catholics are equally incarcerated, addicted, aborted as the rest of the population. If we can not figure out something is astray or amiss we are blind. It all starts with worship, the means of grace. The pope seems to have figured this out and is leading the Church to remedy it, not simply in the traditional Mass restoration, but in fixing the broken novus ordo next on the agenda. Leading means he is out ahead of the pack. The pack may be resistant to following. If we had grace we would be holy, not divorced, aborted, perverted, addicted and incarcerated. The sappy songs, distorted translations and “we are special, I’m ok your ok” nonsense, may make you feel warm and fuzzy, but they are not availing us to grace. We are sinful people who plead for God’s mercy and love. We come to offer sacrifice in worship. We sacrifice a “victim”, who is Christ who offered Himself for us. Mass is not a party as it has been made to seem.
Why do you think the Mass is the source of the problems you list? Haven’t the protestants been having the same problems? They have had a " warm fuzzy" and “happy clappy” worship style for years, why are their problems just manifesting now? Isn’t it possible that the problems are common to both because they have a common source, and not because Catholics changed the Mass?
There is a gap between the realization that something has gone very wrong spiritually and understanding where it happened. It is like a patient who knows he is ill, but maybe does not know the disease or the cure. If he does know the disease he might not know how he got it and he keeps returning to the source of infection. The pope seems to have figured out something is wrong with worship. That is what has gone wrong. We know this, because of the things he has said and wrote and done. He seems now determined to fix problems he recognizes in the new Mass. Why does he think there are problems? What is the evidence? The Church is in crisis. We have suffered many problems that would not have afflicted us if we were healthy and able to fend them off and repel them.