Is there any possible position higher than Queen of Heaven?

[omgriley]

If by exterior temptations you mean an outside agent pushing her and advocating that she perform some evil act, that’s possible. But it has nothing to do with the Blessed Mother herself. Thus it’s irrelevant.

Tradition and the Church Fathers have always taught that Mary was never subject to temptation to sin. We know this because of her traditional title “Mother Inviolate,” which means free from temptation.

In your link Fr. William merely states his opinion, which happens to be wrong.

 

[Mary_Ellen]

Inviolate means free from any impurity or violation, not free from temptation. A temptation is not an impurity nor a violation.

Tradition and the Church Fathers have always taught

Do you have any quotes to share?

 

[Techno2000]

Tradition and the Church Fathers have always taught that Mary was never subject to temptation to sin. We know this because of her traditional title “Mother Inviolate,” which means free from temptation.

Well according to some private revelation I read she was tempted. But not by Satan himself only by the lower Demons,because he couldn’t stand being defeated by a woman.And the Demons knew right from the start that it was useless especially lust.But they had to do it because that’s their nature to tempt.She accepted all this because she wanted to go through everything Man had to go through even death.

 

[De_Maria]

Can’t the Holy Spirit just “will” a Son into her, thereby bypassing the requirement of marriage?

Honestly, to say someone is “married” to God just doesn’t sound right. Typically, people in marriage and considered equal, and Mary most definitely isn’t equal to God…

To the pure, all things are pure. Apparently, you have not heard that all Christians are married to God. Are we equal to God?

Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

 

[PJM]

Actually dear friend; HUMANITY Does have a “spiritual body:”. I have come to term it “our OTHER self”

"Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.” So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

John.4: 23 – 24 “But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for such the Father seeks to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."

So HOW then do we reconcile these seemingly contradictory [mortal & immortal] differences? Or is Johns metaphorical?

In the entire Universe OF BILLIONS of things, only one thing can be proven to support life forms: PLANET EARTH.

PLANET EARTH has many MILLIONS of loving things; but only thing is RATIONAL: Humanity.

In order to be Rational requires a mind, a intellect & a freewill.
Each of these attributes, Like GOD, are spiritual realities. Should one doubt this; quantify for us your FREEWILL…. What is its size, shape, color and weight? This cannot be done, yet only a foolish person would attempt to deny their existence.

The NEXT question is WHY did God gift every human soul with these God like gifts?

Isa. 43: 7,21 “everyone who is called by my name, whom I created for my glory,
whom I formed and made." … the people whom I formed for myself
that THEY MIGHT declare my praise”

“They Might” is the reason our “spiritual other self” exist. Good or evil is OUR choice and it is We who choose our Eternal abode; Jesus “only” affirms our life choices.

PRAY very much,
Patrick

 

[Cruciferi]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Yes. I believe the title is referred to as God.

 

[stpurl]

Patrick, I agree with you and I even used the term spiritual several times.
Techno thinks though that people who die and whose souls go to heaven will, until the Second Coming, get a kind of temporary ‘Spirit Body’, and then just discard that when the real deal comes along. That’s what I was arguing about; there is no such thing as a ‘spirit body’ that our soul is encased in after death and until the second coming (he thinks that if we don’t have a ‘body’ that we’re just floating orbs!)

Hope that clears it up.

 

[Techno2000]

then just discard that when the real deal comes along.

I said nothing about discarding anything.

he thinks that if we don’t have a ‘body’ that we’re just floating orbs!)

I was asking you what was the alternative to a spirit body.

 

[Techno2000]

You don’t have a spirit body. You have a spiritual body. There is a difference

Ok, what is the difference ? Maybe I should have said spiritual body.

 

[PJM]

THANKS, Truth is a mystery to a great many folks

God Bless you

Patrick

 

[TheNeutral]

Is it possible to surpass Mary in rank? Is there justice in Heaven?

 

[stpurl]

Let me ask you this:

If there is any person, any person whomsoever, who is given first in rank in heaven, does that mean that all who come ‘below’ have not had ‘justice’?

Or is it only Mary who would ‘rankle you’ to have her given the highest position in heaven by God?

 

[De_Maria]

Is it possible to surpass Mary in rank?

Only God knows:

Matthew 20:23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

But I doubt it. After all, she is the Mother of God.

Is there justice in Heaven?

Yes. But there is little or no justice in a disordered mind.

Ezekiel 18:29 Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?

 

[Mintaka]

“Spiritual body” is probably not the best way to put it. I like “resurrection body,” because it reminds us more strongly that it’s going to be our own bodies, resurrected and made new. It’s not a resurrection if our bodies don’t arise; and since we were made to be creatures with physical bodies and immaterial souls, we would be forever maimed if we never got our bodies back, or got non-material bodies.

Remember, God invented matter. He loves it. The only reason we complain about it is that we have to deal with a fallen universe of matter. When all Creation is saved, we will finally see its true beauty, which will be even more amazing than it is now.

 

[TheNeutral]

Let me ask you this:

If there is any person, any person whomsoever, who is given first in rank in heaven, does that mean that all who come ‘below’ have not had ‘justice’?

Or is it only Mary who would ‘rankle you’ to have her given the highest position in heaven by God?

It’s not the just the person, but the reason. Being #1 because you’re the “Mother of God” is essentially cheating in two ways; Sexual Function and (Im)possibility. Mary didn’t “earn” anything that She was given, yet the Men and Women who actually suffer for God (not emotionally, physically) and risk their lives for him are but mere secondaries. Mary’s sacrifices are almost nonexistent when it comes to herself; Yes, “Her Son” died, but that wasn’t Her choice to make, She either accepted it or rejected it, but God’s will be done… Let’s take a rich King, for example. Let’s say this man is the richest and most powerful Man on Earth, but he learns of Jesus Christ and the Catholic Church and sacrifices all of his wealth, power, and relationships to become a humble, meager servant and preach to the world. He goes somewhere, sharing the gospel, and gets martyred. Should this man not be rewarded greater due to his sacrifices? Yes, he likely had sin (as we all do), but that should only strengthen his case in Heaven because God could’ve saved him from Original Sin, but didn’t. This man had to not only fight the Devil and the world, but also his inherently sinful nature (unlike Mary), even unto death.

To Me, Mary is the ultimate sign of “I am God”, however, I don’t mean this in a good way. Mary’s position shows that God can do whatever he wants just because, and there’s nothing we can do about it to change it, not even serve him.

We are all destined to be the second fiddle because we didn’t have a very specific, impossible, gracehack from God.

Only God knows:

Matthew 20:23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

This gives me hope, as it uses the plural “them”, rather than “him”, “her”, or “the one”, which seems to imply that perhaps Mary isn’t alone after all.

 

[Spyridon]

Mary had to be tempted for Jesus was tempted.

To say otherwise makes it seem like Mary was holier than Jesus - an unacceptable heterodox opinion. Mary is holy specifically because of Jesus, not in spite of him.

 

[Spyridon]

Who says Mary is alone in front of God? Many saints are with her, myriads upon myriads and millions upon millions.

 

[Mintaka]

Since Mary is the only human being (other than Jesus) who never sinned, and who used her free will to cooperate with God completely, obviously she deserves the highest honor. Adam and Eve had all the advantages, and they fell. Mary never fell, over the whole of a long and stressful life.

(And yes, of course she was tempted. But she was tempted like Adam and Eve were tempted back in the Garden – she could probably deal with temptation more rationally, with more cooperation between her body and soul than we do; because she had no concupiscence from original sin.)

The rest of us are sinners. Compared to Mary, we are hot messes. That doesn’t mean we don’t do cool things.

Since Mary is Jesus’ mom and Queen Mother, obviously she is highest in honor.

Mary was the world’s first church mom, helping out the Apostles and disciples, looking after the youngest Apostle, John, and being there from the Last Supper to the first Pentecost. Mary was the first Christian hymnwriter. Obviously she deserves high honor for her church work, too. It wasn’t just “standing around.”

I could blah blah for hours about this, but why? Am I supposed to complain because I can never have Abraham’s place, being that I wasn’t born 4000 years ago as a guy? How is that unjust?

Would I want to be Abraham? Would I want to be a man in the first place?

No! Of course not! I want to be myself!

I want my crown, not somebody else’s. I want my white robe, not St. Simeon Stylite’s. And I don’t have any desire to be Jesus’ mommy, either.

(Except, you know, me as a saint who lives forever in bliss. Looking forward to what the afterlife has instead of research libraries, and the exciting new music of the heavenly choirs. Not super-interested in the “huge clusters of grapes in the new earth that’s like Eden” thing, but it’s a thing for some.)

(Some of you are probably looking forward to playing heavy metal kitharas. You know who you are.)

Anyway, the point is that all of us who go to Heaven and are spared from the second death (hopefully including me!) will each individually have all the honor and glory we can possibly have, plus a heaping helping more.

“And I will give him a white tally stone, and on the stone a new name will be written, which no man knows except the one who receives it.” (Rev. 2:17)

See? Every one of us will get our own individual gift of God’s intimate love. So why should we want more?

 

[TheNeutral]

Who says Mary is alone in front of God? Many saints are with her, myriads upon myriads and millions upon millions.

With Her, or under Her? Who besides from Her is called “Blessed”, “Queen of Heaven”, “Above all Saints”, etcetera? Truly, She is alone.

Since Mary is the only human being (other than Jesus) who never sinned, and who used her free will to cooperate with God completely, obviously she deserves the highest honor. Adam and Eve had all the advantages, and they fell. Mary never fell, over the whole of a long and stressful life.

This is still cheating. How can “not sinning” count towards Her when She was conceived without the inclination to sin, and was protected by the Holy Spirit (something which Adam and Eve didn’t seem to have)? It would be like putting a jetpack on a runner and “rewarding” them for winning the race. Also, I’m sure Enoch, Elijah, Moses, Apostles, etc. wouldn’t have sinned either with an immaculate conception. Also, Michael the Archangel was perfect, and I’m sure constantly hearing the Devil bicker about being equal to God constitutes a “long and stressful life” as well.

Since Mary is Jesus’ mom and Queen Mother, obviously she is highest in honor.

Again, hacks. Also, why does God need to follow the conventional Earthly rules of regal heirarchy?

(Continued in Part 2)

 

[TheNeutral]

Part 2

Mary was the world’s first church mom, helping out the Apostles and disciples, looking after the youngest Apostle, John, and being there from the Last Supper to the first Pentecost. Mary was the first Christian hymnwriter. Obviously she deserves high honor for her church work, too. It wasn’t just “standing around.”

Alright, give Her honor, but not over the people who actually suffered.

I could blah blah for hours about this, but why? Am I supposed to complain because I can never have Abraham’s place, being that I wasn’t born 4000 years ago as a guy? How is that unjust?

Does that mean you are a Woman? If so, rejoice! The Queen of Heaven is above even him!

I want my crown, not somebody else’s. I want my white robe, not St. Simeon Stylite’s. And I don’t have any desire to be Jesus’ mommy, either.

(Except, you know, me as a saint who lives forever in bliss. Looking forward to what the afterlife has instead of research libraries, and the exciting new music of the heavenly choirs. Not super-interested in the “huge clusters of grapes in the new earth that’s like Eden” thing, but it’s a thing for some.)

(Some of you are probably looking forward to playing heavy metal kitharas. You know who you are.)

Anyway, the point is that all of us who go to Heaven and are spared from the second death (hopefully including me!) will each individually have all the honor and glory we can possibly have, plus a heaping helping more.

“And I will give him a white tally stone, and on the stone a new name will be written, which no man knows except the one who receives it.” (Rev. 2:17)

See? Every one of us will get our own individual gift of God’s intimate love. So why should we want more?

This gives me hope. Admittedly, I oftentimes forget the infinite treasures of Heaven admist this spiritual “obstacle” of mine, and perhaps, if I make it in, this will be the least of my concerns. I could be entirely wrong even, and Mary could have some different position… However, while I’m here, this is truly a woeful and sorrowful matter for me, and right now, my daily hope comes from the believe in justice and understanding. That God would understand our position, as sinful beings, and not use it to lower us, as though we chose to possess Original Sin.

God Bless.