Is there any religion affirms that they are saved?

[banjo]

Kevan:

Lazerlike42, that’s a pretty good article. Do you realize that it is saying essentially what I have been saying? Although the writer is unable to deal with Romans 8, except to treat it as though it doesn’t belong in the Bible, he does still grasp the essence of assurance.

Viktor, does the verse you refer to speak of having eternal life one day in Heaven, or having eternal life now? Look it up; read it in context; see what it says. Read the article Lazerlike42 mentioned. Perseverance and growing are good and necessary things, but they are merely a charade unless one has first passed, as Jesus said, from death to life.

Kevan,

Regarding Rm 8:9 “Any one who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.” and Rm 8:13 "for if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body you will live." *
I read this as we have the choice, the capacity, at any time to turn away from God and no longer live “by the Spirit.” Man’s propensity to sin is always a threat to his eternal salvation.“For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh; to prevent you from doing what you would.” *Gal 5:17 I think St. Paul also says this in 1 Cor 9:27 *“but I pommel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.” *And I also think this answers the question posed in Rm 8:35 "Who shall separate us from the love of Christ?" Answer, we will separate ourselves from Christ unless we persevere and choose Christ over ourselves. I believe this battle is one that is waged each day, one at a time, and that it can’t be taken as a given that the “day of the Lord” will not surpise us like a thief.

I don’t know how this aligns with OSAS; are we seeing this along the same lines or do you have a different take on it?

 

[JKirkLVNV]

E.E.N.S.:

Correct, Catholics have a moral assurance of salvation in that we believe that God will be totally to His promise of salvation to all the faithful. The thing that we are not 100% sure about is the degree of our commitment to Christ at the moment of our death when we will be judged.

I’m glad you rang in with this. We’re not supposed to live in morbid fear of damnation, but neither are we to presume (the sin of presumption) that we’re “in like Flynn.” Would it not be correct, creedaly, as it were, to say, if we are faithful (following Him, not rejecting Him and falling into mortal sin), then we may be assured of HIS fidelity?

 

[Kevan]

banjo:

I don’t know how this aligns with OSAS; are we seeing this along the same lines or do you have a different take on it?

To be candid, I have decided for strategic reasons not to comment on the merits or demerits of the OSAS doctrine. I see that it is a huge distraction from the important issues, so I let the question alone.

I think that it is important for Catholics to understand that (1) many, perhaps most, evangelicals do not subscribe to the doctrine and (2) they nevertheless testify to a born-again experience by faith alone and a supernatural assurance that God, for Christ’s sake, has taken away their sins and made them his own. If anyone reading these posts wants this assurance for himself, I’d encourage him to seek it from God in a definite way through prayer and meditation on such verses as I’ve referenced above. Multitudes have this assurance who do not believe in OSAS.

Regarding Romans 8, you have brought up verses which I did not have in mind. I had referred to vv. 16-17 which mention the witness of the Spirit. The writer of the article dismissed some Protestant interpretation of these verses, but never offered a preferred one.

Although we wage a daily battle lest we be rejected, as St. Paul said in 1 Cor. 9:27, I find that many people see it like a college class: “Will I pass or not? All I can do is study every day and hope. Only the final exam will tell.”

Think of it more like a marriage. I don’t wonder if I’m married. I don’t hope that I’m married. That transaction is completed: I’m married. But there’s a daily life to be lived, temptations to be shunned, duties to be performed, lest my happy home become a hell on earth.

If we were only dating, there might be a daily struggle to be good enough, to be accepted, to attain to that level where we would one day decide to become a new family. But that kind of thinking is out of place within a godly marriage.

So, yes, I agree that there’s a daily struggle; but I believe that the Bible presents it as a struggle in the relationship, rather than a struggle for the relationship.

 

[viktor_aleksndr]

I guess we must keep in mind that God gave us the assurance of salvation it is now up to us if we want to attain the eternal life with GOD. We must not assume that though we live in charity, chastity and obedience we will be saved. GOD is the only one who knows the real us, it is HE only who knows if we have to live with HIM in the end.

Though we are not given any confirmation that we will be saved, it doesn’t mean that we will slow down on our life. GOD gave us assurance and it depends now on how we respond to HIM to attain this eternal life in heaven.

We must not stop Glorifying, Adoring, Loving and Follow HIM for HE promise us eternal life. GOD loves us more than we love ourselves.

(this is only my view without biblical basis) Thanks!

 

[cheddarsox]

Universalists believe that all are saved.

cheddar

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Kevan:

So, yes, I agree that there’s a daily struggle; but I believe that the Bible presents it as a struggle in the relationship, rather than a struggle for the relationship.

That is Catholic teaching.

 

[banjo]

Kevan:

Regarding Romans 8, you have brought up verses which I did not have in mind. I had referred to vv. 16-17 which mention the witness of the Spirit. The writer of the article dismissed some Protestant interpretation of these verses, but never offered a preferred one.

Think of it more like a marriage. I don’t wonder if I’m married. I don’t hope that I’m married. That transaction is completed: I’m married. But there’s a daily life to be lived, temptations to be shunned, duties to be performed, lest my happy home become a hell on earth.

So, yes, I agree that there’s a daily struggle; but I believe that the Bible presents it as a struggle in the relationship, rather than a struggle for the relationship.

I think the Lord desires our salvation even more than we desire it ourselves. My point is only that assured salvation is given us by God provided we respond as per the quotes I cited. Rm 8:17 *“provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.” *is yet another such quote indicating, at least to me, that our response to his offer of eternal life requires more of a commitment than simply saying ‘okay.’
Good post, thanks for the response.

 

[Mystophilus]

viktor aleksndr:

I hear most of the religions that they will be saved in the judgement day. Is there really a confirmation from other religions that they are sure that they are saved?

Most Protestants are sure that they are contingently saved, i.e., that they will go to Heaven unless they change dramatically and reject God. Some believe that they are predestined for Heaven.
A few Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that they are predestined.
Most Muslims are sure of their salvation.
Most Amitabha Buddhists are sure, and Theravada Buddhists believe that it will happen even if not in the next 10 000 lives.

There are bound to be more, but I cannot think of them at the moment.

 

[Ignatius]

Kevan:

Don’t neglect the verses which say that we have been saved, or Jesus’ statement that those who possess saving faith have passed from death to life, or St. Paul’s language of assurance regarding himself.

OSAS/“eternal security” says that one may know what his state of grace will be later in life. That doctrine isn’t essential to the New Testament teaching that one may know his state of grace now.

1Jo 5:11-13 And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

I know what will happen to me if I die today, and God wants all of us to know the same.

You need to take all of scripture, not ignore verses to don’t support your views.

Let’s take a look at some of the verses here in the form of a quiz.
*
Ezekiel 18:21-22, 24
“If a wicked man turns away from all the sins he has committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die. None of the offenses he has committed will be remembered against him.”
“But if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked man does, will he live? None of the righteous things he has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness he is guilty of and because of the sins he has committed, he will die.”

Question:
If a wicked man turns away from his sins and is justified, and then turns back to his sins, will he still live?

A. Yes
B. No
C. I’m going to pretend I didn’t see those verses

1 Corinthians 11:32
“When we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be condemned with the world.”

Question:
Is it possible for a Christian to be condemned with the world?

A. Yes
B. No
C. I’m going to pretend I didn’t see that verse

Extra credit:

According to the Bible, why does God discipline us?
(HINT: “To prevent us from being ___________ with the world”)

*2 Timothy *2:12
“If we disown him, he will also disown us.”

Question:
If a Christian repudiates Christ, will he himself be repudiated?

A. Yes
B. No
C. I’m going to pretend I didn’t see that verse

Revelation 22:14, 19
“Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city . . . If anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.”

Question:
If a Christian takes words away from the book of revelation, will he lose his share in the tree of life and to be excluded from the holy city?

A. Yes
B. No
C. I’m going to pretend I didn’t see that verse

1 Timothy 3:6
“[A potential bishop must not be] a new convert, lest he become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil.”

Question:
Is it possible for a Christian to fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil?

A. Yes
B. No
C. I’m going to pretend I didn’t see that verse

2 Peter 2:20-21
“For if after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment delivered to them.”

Bonus Essay Question:
If a Christian cannot lose his salvation, even if he becomes entangled in the pollutions of the world, how can such entanglement be described as worse than his first (unsaved) condition? How can it be said of a saved man, “It would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness?"

(continued)*

 

[Ignatius]

(continued)

Galatians 5:19-20
*“The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.”

Question:
*If a Christian lives in the manner described by Paul, will he inherit the *kingdom of God?

A. Yes
B. No
C. I’m going to pretend I didn’t see that verse

Romans 11:22
“Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God; sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.”

Question:
If a Christian does not continue in God’s kindness, will he be cut off?

A. Yes
B. No
C. I’m going to pretend I didn’t see that verse

1 Corinthians 15:2
“By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise you have believed in vain.”

Question:
If a Christian does not hold firmly to the gospel and falls away, will it be said of him that he believed for nothing?

A. Yes
B. No
C. I’m going to pretend I didn’t see that verse

Hebrews 4:1, 11
“Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it . . . Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.”

Question:
If a Christian follows the Israelites example of disobedience, will he enter God’s rest?

A. Yes
B. No
C. I’m going to pretend I didn’t see that verse*

See if you can honestly answer these question.

Your brother in Christ.

 

[Ignatius]

Kevan:

OSAS/“eternal security” says that one may know what his state of grace will be later in life. That doctrine isn’t essential to the New Testament teaching that one may know his state of grace now.

You should also be aware that OSAS is a false manmade doctrine that did not even exist until the sixteenth century.

May the peace of Christ be with you.

 

[E.E.N.S]

(continued)

Galatians 5:19-20
“The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.”

Question:
If a Christian lives in the manner described by Paul, will he inherit the kingdom of God?

A. Yes
B. No
C. I’m going to pretend I didn’t see that verse

Romans 11:22
“Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God; sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.”

Question:
If a Christian does not continue in God’s kindness, will he be cut off?

A. Yes
B. No
C. I’m going to pretend I didn’t see that verse

1 Corinthians 15:2
“By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise you have believed in vain.”

Question:
If a Christian does not hold firmly to the gospel and falls away, will it be said of him that he believed for nothing?

A. Yes
B. No
C. I’m going to pretend I didn’t see that verse

Hebrews 4:1, 11
“Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it . . . Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.”

Question:
If a Christian follows the Israelites example of disobedience, will he enter God’s rest?

A. Yes
B. No
C. I’m going to pretend I didn’t see that verse

See if you can honestly answer these question.

Your brother in Christ.

Haha, that’s great! You should’ve added the more common answer:

D. I am going to twist the meaning of this verse so that it is almost unrecognizable to fit what I want it to say!

 

[E.E.N.S]

The Letter to the Hebrews expresses in dramatic terms how the prayer of Jesus accomplished the victory of salvation: “In the days of his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard for his godly fear. Although he was a Son, he learned obedience through what he suffered, and being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him.”

 

[Kevan]

Ignatius:

You need to take all of scripture, not ignore verses to don’t support your views.

You spent an awful lot of keystrokes on that little venture into sarcasm. And yet, for all that, you managed to ignore what I wrote and attack something else instead.

What did I affirm? That you can know your state of grace. It was the same thing that Lazerlike42’s article affirmed. It’s the same thing that the verses I referred to affirmed.

If anyone is tired of hoping that he’s saved and wants to know for sure, he can have that assurance.These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life (1 John 5:13).I know that I “have passed from death to life” (John 5:24), and you can know it for yourself if you want to.

 

[Ignatius]

Kevan:

Ignatius:

You need to take all of scripture, not ignore verses to don’t support your views.

Let’s take a look at some of the verses here in the form of a quiz.

**
Ezekiel 18:21-22, 24
“If a wicked man turns away from all the sins he has committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die. None of the offenses he has committed will be remembered against him.”
“But if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked man does, will he live? None of the righteous things he has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness he is guilty of and because of the sins he has committed, he will die.”

You spent an awful lot of keystrokes on that little venture into sarcasm. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life (1 John 5:13).

It is not sarcasm. As I pointed out earlier, You need to take all of scripture, not ignore verses to don’t support your views. If you go ahead and answer the quiz honestly and you will find if you are truly following scripture. OSAS is a man-made doctrine that didn’t exist until the sixteenth century. Do a little research and find out for yourself when it first appeared or was written of.

Also, go ahead and answer here and we’ll discuss it scripture by scripture. I know it is a hard saying, but we cannot just go after what we would like to believe. We’d all like to believe what you say, but it goes against what Christ said. When many of Christs followers turned away saying from Him “this is a hard saying, and they followed Him no more”, He said '“will you also leave.” Will you also turn away from the Truth because it is “a hard saying.”

May the grace of Christ, the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you and lead you to the Pillar and Foundation of Truth.

Your brother in Christ.

 

[Kevan]

Ignatius, you have a zeal for truth that is affecting your eyesight.

I never affirmed OSAS.

You are tilting at windmills. You’re obviously smarter than the average bear, so go back and read what has been written.

Your verses have little or nothing to do with the matter I’ve been contending for. You are arguing against OSAS, which I expressly dissociated myself from, and you are missing completely the message of the passages I’ve been quoting.

You can know that you have passed from death to life.