Is there anyone else here who rarely receives consolations?

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I think consolations if sought for or longed for (even if as secondary motives) can mean that we are not motivated enough of pure love of God.

God may withhold feelings from us for various reasons, perhaps because we are putting more weight in them than faith in God.
For me that is the case. I understand I need to do God’s will without emotional ‘prizes’ and yet, I do long for them.
I know a man who lives like that (at least what one can see from the outside) He doesn’t go about with an ecstatic smile, or have a glow, or do cartwheels when he does good. He just does what he does in keeping with God’s will. I envy him.
LOL, does this fit with Mr. Spock on Star Trek? He always did things with reason, rather than emotion.
 
For me that is the case. I understand I need to do God’s will without emotional ‘prizes’ and yet, I do long for them.
I know a man who lives like that (at least what one can see from the outside) He doesn’t go about with an ecstatic smile, or have a glow, or do cartwheels when he does good. He just does what he does in keeping with God’s will. I envy him.
LOL, does this fit with Mr. Spock on Star Trek? He always did things with reason, rather than emotion.
Many of us also struggle with this, but the good news is this gives us some good material to bring to God in daily prayer until with God’s grace we move beyond it. It’s good to complain about ourselves a lot in prayer!
 
I think consolations if sought for or longed for (even if as secondary motives) can mean that we are not motivated enough of pure love of God.

God may withhold feelings from us for various reasons, perhaps because we are putting more weight in them than faith in God.
Consolations provide stepping stones, from longing for consolations to pure love for God. They give us a “taste” of the kingdom so we have some idea that we have a lot further to go. For me, I found that “negative” ones work as well, too, but not until I got used to understanding that all works for the good of those who believe.

Alan
 
Consolations provide stepping stones, from longing for consolations to pure love for God. They give us a “taste” of the kingdom so we have some idea that we have a lot further to go. For me, I found that “negative” ones work as well, too, but not until I got used to understanding that all works for the good of those who believe.

Alan
What would be considered “negative” ones? Feelings of despair almost overwhelm me at times, but I don’t feel they draw me closer to God, but further away. It is a terrible struggle at times to not just give up, and give in. (I don’t mean suicide, as that isn’t an option for me)
 
That is a very interesting quote. Where can I learn more about this? I read somewhere that it was dangerous to offer *to *suffer. Something about the devil being more than willing to inflict suffering?
It really confused me as to what suffering is a gift, and what is a curse.
Can you help?
Consolations are a gift from God. But like all gifts, we don’t demand them, covet them, or reject them. Consolations are given “just because” or as a call to move deeper, or as a form of thanksgiving from Our Lord.

I don’t think we should necessarily ask for suffering but sometimes love longs to sacrifice itself, to give itself and only suffering creates the right environment for which we can do this satisfactorily. I asked to suffer because I loved the person so much and I didn’t want them to suffer alone, plus I wanted to know and understand this person deeply. I feel the same way about my relationship with Jesus. We know that Jesus in His glory no longer suffers but because of His union to souls who receive Him in Eucharist, He still suffers through them, He suffers their pain. So in contemplation we often enter into the suffering of Jesus united to wounded souls. Thomas Merton also said that, “We can never know perfect joy in this world while a single member of the body is suffering.”

But the thing to remember is really to be open to whatever God wants. It gives God great delight to delight you (That is Him loving you) but to enter into His passion and death is YOU loving Him. Both are equally important.

Read Thomas Merton, “Seeds of Contemplation” and “The Life of Christ” by Bishop Sheen. The last chapter in the Life of Christ discusses mystical union with the Body of Christ.
 
Consolations are a gift from God. But like all gifts, we don’t demand them, covet them, or reject them. Consolations are given “just because” or as a call to move deeper, or as a form of thanksgiving from Our Lord.

I don’t think we should necessarily ask for suffering but sometimes love longs to sacrifice itself, to give itself and only suffering creates the right environment for which we can do this satisfactorily. I asked to suffer because I loved the person so much and I didn’t want them to suffer alone, plus I wanted to know and understand this person deeply. I feel the same way about my relationship with Jesus. We know that Jesus in His glory no longer suffers but because of His union to souls who receive Him in Eucharist, He still suffers through them, He suffers their pain. So in contemplation we often enter into the suffering of Jesus united to wounded souls. Thomas Merton also said that, “We can never know perfect joy in this world while a single member of the body is suffering.”

But the thing to remember is really to be open to whatever God wants. It gives God great delight to delight you (That is Him loving you) but to enter into His passion and death is YOU loving Him. Both are equally important.

Read Thomas Merton, “Seeds of Contemplation” and “The Life of Christ” by Bishop Sheen. The last chapter in the Life of Christ discusses mystical union with the Body of Christ.
Thank you, you’ve put it in a very clear, easy to understand way. I will look into getting the books you’ve suggested.
:)🙂
 
What would be considered “negative” ones? Feelings of despair almost overwhelm me at times, but I don’t feel they draw me closer to God, but further away. It is a terrible struggle at times to not just give up, and give in. (I don’t mean suicide, as that isn’t an option for me)
I don’t always know the terminology, so I might not phrase things well. I’m thinking there were times I was sure that I was being subjected to evil, but later could see how it all fit in to condition me.

As far as despair, I tasted of it and looking back, I think it’s useful that I experienced it, but the best I can say is it’s like a reset. At the time I was sure there were no possible trajectories my life would take that weren’t awful, and it was horrible. But I think part of it is that the more educated we are, and the more confident we are of our abilities, the more that despair could have a role in basically destroying those confidences in ourselves to the end of giving up trying. Thus mortifying the false self ego, which thinks it’s in control. Now I didn’t say giving up living, just letting go of the steering wheel and letting God run it. This is against everything we were taught by society, because we are always supposed to be in control. But in despair we acknowledge that we must rely on God because nothing we can imagine, is going to work out.

Similar to Jesus going into the desert. He subjected Himself to forces beyond His control, even though satan tempted Him three times to take control, He needed to complete His experience without “taking the wheel.” So when we are in despair, maybe we can allow ourselves, in our helpless estate, to throw our entire being into the hands of God. Sounds good theoretically possible, but can be hard to convince ourselves at least while in that state.

Another thing I notice is when Jesus asked why His God abandoned Him, is that Jesus had to experience profound separation for His Father, before He could have the full effect of a reunion with Him. That is a constant theme, what is lost is now found. More rejoicing in heaven over one repentant sinner, Prodigal son, etc. etc. Lost coins, etc. So maybe that’s another way we can unite with Him in our despair, remembering that our Lord cried out, as part of the process before he was glorified.

Gosh I’m just making all this up based on my own memory of these experiences. I have no idea if anybody else feels abandoned by God during despair, but I couldn’t even think about God when I was there. I only offer these ideas as brainstorming, and if you find them useful that’s fine. If you don’t, that’s fine too. They are not intended to be theologically sound, because I’m not a scholar; I just try to describe what I thought and felt.

Alan
 
I don’t always know the terminology, so I might not phrase things well. I’m thinking there were times I was sure that I was being subjected to evil, but later could see how it all fit in to condition me.

As far as despair, I tasted of it and looking back, I think it’s useful that I experienced it, but the best I can say is it’s like a reset. At the time I was sure there were no possible trajectories my life would take that weren’t awful, and it was horrible. But I think part of it is that the more educated we are, and the more confident we are of our abilities, the more that despair could have a role in basically destroying those confidences in ourselves to the end of giving up trying. Thus mortifying the false self ego, which thinks it’s in control. Now I didn’t say giving up living, just letting go of the steering wheel and letting God run it. This is against everything we were taught by society, because we are always supposed to be in control. But in despair we acknowledge that we must rely on God because nothing we can imagine, is going to work out.

Similar to Jesus going into the desert. He subjected Himself to forces beyond His control, even though satan tempted Him three times to take control, He needed to complete His experience without “taking the wheel.” So when we are in despair, maybe we can allow ourselves, in our helpless estate, to throw our entire being into the hands of God. Sounds good theoretically possible, but can be hard to convince ourselves at least while in that state.

Another thing I notice is when Jesus asked why His God abandoned Him, is that Jesus had to experience profound separation for His Father, before He could have the full effect of a reunion with Him. That is a constant theme, what is lost is now found. More rejoicing in heaven over one repentant sinner, Prodigal son, etc. etc. Lost coins, etc. So maybe that’s another way we can unite with Him in our despair, remembering that our Lord cried out, as part of the process before he was glorified.

Gosh I’m just making all this up based on my own memory of these experiences. I have no idea if anybody else feels abandoned by God during despair, but I couldn’t even think about God when I was there. I only offer these ideas as brainstorming, and if you find them useful that’s fine. If you don’t, that’s fine too. They are not intended to be theologically sound, because I’m not a scholar; I just try to describe what I thought and felt.

Alan
Actually, what you’ve said is quite helpful, for me it is easier to comprehend things if they are not all wrapped up in legalistic terms. I think there are many who would be helped by that same approach.
Thanks,
Have a good night.
 
Reading the chapter about the Third Mansion in Interior Castle by Teresa of Avila would be very helpful to anyone experiencing dryness, lack of consolation, etc. One point that she stresses is how dryness is often linked to an opportunity to develop humility. She speaks about how many people spend much time in the Third Mansion, before they are able to proceed spiritually into the Fourth Mansion. The development of a true sense of humility is a major spiritual milestone to be able to get on to the good stuff. 🙂
 
For most of my life the word, “consolation” wasn’t in my vocabulary. I was raised Protestant, the kind where their favorite scripture was “be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect” then they defined “perfect”, and even Jesus didn’t measure up. He got a free pass because he was the Son of God. 😃

When I became Catholic, I read a lot (my first 3 books I read before going to RCIA were a biography on St. Martin de Porres, Dark Night of the Soul and Interior Castles.) In reading Dark Night, all I could think was “been there, done that.” I read a lot of stuff about “consolations”, but still didn’t know what they meant.

About 3 months ago, I read Mother Theresa’s book, “Be My Light”, and again, I couldn’t understand what she was missing. For me, I always knew God loved me, because he said he did and he can’t lie. I never really felt it. Maybe distantly, but not anything more than his fingernail reaching out to mine, and sometimes making contact. I could feel my heart going to him, but nothing coming from him. This was true for all of my life. (I’ll be 51 in a couple of weeks.) So, yes, I understand what it’s like to not experience consolations.

I have always loved God. Always been a Christian, sometimes a better one than others. I have been, for a lot of my adult life, involved in some sort of ministry. I read my Bible, I prayed, I went to church. Even once I became a Catholic, I did those things even more, including reading a lot (everything I could get my hands on) by the Saints. So doing the “right things” was not a problem. And I guess you don’t miss what you’ve never known.

I am using the past tense here for a reason. I now know what the big deal is. I didn’t seek consolations; all I ever wanted was to be able to define it, not necessarily to have it.

The one thing, the only thing, that has mattered to me in the last 2 years especially, is getting closer to God. That’s all. All I want, wanted, whatever, is to be totally his. For me, that was a painful process (and no, I don’t think I’m there yet - or ever will be this side of the Beatific Vision). Especially a couple of months back. When you get really serious about being totally God’s, he will show you the places where you are withholding from him. Places you don’t want him to go, for whatever reason. Maybe you were abused. Maybe you were 21 and stupid. Maybe they are things you can logically say you have confessed, or logically can look at and see they are things that need to be confessed, or things that weren’t sin at all, so don’t need to be confessed. Old hurts, that sort of thing. Once I let God’s mercy touch those places, the darkness was dispelled. Now I know what consolations are. I think. It’s not some great spiritual “high”. It’s more down to earth than that. It’s not rainbows and unicorns. There are stil things that break my heart. Especially Protestants that love God, but have no idea what they are missing because they have symbols, not sacraments. Especially lapsed Catholics, who are Protestants and love God, but know just enough about Reconciliation that they may be held accountable for that knowledge at the Final Judgement. I think of Jesus on the cross, when he cries, “Why have you abandoned me?” He not only felt abandoned by his Father, he was abandoned by his closest friends, except for St. John. Those dear people love him, but they have abandoned him, and they don’t even know it. That breaks my heart. But through all of that, I still feel the reality of God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, in my heart and in my soul and in my life. I still bow in awe of the Triune God. If that’s not a consolation, I don’t know what is.
Kris
 
For most of my life the word, “consolation” wasn’t in my vocabulary. I was raised Protestant, the kind where their favorite scripture was “be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect” then they defined “perfect”, and even Jesus didn’t measure up. He got a free pass because he was the Son of God. 😃

When I became Catholic, I read a lot (my first 3 books I read before going to RCIA were a biography on St. Martin de Porres, Dark Night of the Soul and Interior Castles.) In reading Dark Night, all I could think was “been there, done that.” I read a lot of stuff about “consolations”, but still didn’t know what they meant.

About 3 months ago, I read Mother Theresa’s book, “Be My Light”, and again, I couldn’t understand what she was missing. For me, I always knew God loved me, because he said he did and he can’t lie. I never really felt it. Maybe distantly, but not anything more than his fingernail reaching out to mine, and sometimes making contact. I could feel my heart going to him, but nothing coming from him. This was true for all of my life. (I’ll be 51 in a couple of weeks.) So, yes, I understand what it’s like to not experience consolations.

I have always loved God. Always been a Christian, sometimes a better one than others. I have been, for a lot of my adult life, involved in some sort of ministry. I read my Bible, I prayed, I went to church. Even once I became a Catholic, I did those things even more, including reading a lot (everything I could get my hands on) by the Saints. So doing the “right things” was not a problem. And I guess you don’t miss what you’ve never known.

I am using the past tense here for a reason. I now know what the big deal is. I didn’t seek consolations; all I ever wanted was to be able to define it, not necessarily to have it.

The one thing, the only thing, that has mattered to me in the last 2 years especially, is getting closer to God. That’s all. All I want, wanted, whatever, is to be totally his. For me, that was a painful process (and no, I don’t think I’m there yet - or ever will be this side of the Beatific Vision). Especially a couple of months back. When you get really serious about being totally God’s, he will show you the places where you are withholding from him. Places you don’t want him to go, for whatever reason. Maybe you were abused. Maybe you were 21 and stupid. Maybe they are things you can logically say you have confessed, or logically can look at and see they are things that need to be confessed, or things that weren’t sin at all, so don’t need to be confessed. Old hurts, that sort of thing. Once I let God’s mercy touch those places, the darkness was dispelled. Now I know what consolations are. I think. It’s not some great spiritual “high”. It’s more down to earth than that. It’s not rainbows and unicorns. There are stil things that break my heart. Especially Protestants that love God, but have no idea what they are missing because they have symbols, not sacraments. Especially lapsed Catholics, who are Protestants and love God, but know just enough about Reconciliation that they may be held accountable for that knowledge at the Final Judgement. I think of Jesus on the cross, when he cries, “Why have you abandoned me?” He not only felt abandoned by his Father, he was abandoned by his closest friends, except for St. John. Those dear people love him, but they have abandoned him, and they don’t even know it. That breaks my heart. But through all of that, I still feel the reality of God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, in my heart and in my soul and in my life. I still bow in awe of the Triune God. If that’s not a consolation, I don’t know what is.
Kris
Thank you for your contributions to this discussion. In some ways you sound like the elder brother in the parable of the Prodigal Son without the jealously of not being favored.

Sometimes, I think these ‘consolations’ are given to those who really need to know the presence of God. Those who need to know forgiveness for their many sins, or those who have been deeply wounded.

Sometimes I think of our heavenly Father in a way similar to that of a wise mother with many children knowing what each of her particular chlidren need. One child might need steady correction, another child might need steady consolations, another child may only need an approving smile. God’s ways are so beyond our understanding, we can only trust that He is near to those who seek Him.

BTW, I meant to ask you, did you ever have a ‘born again’ experience in your life?

God’s peace be with you

micah
 
I have enjoyed this discussion a lot.

I have to admire those who have done so much for battered children and have offered to do so much for them. That is a beautiful jesture. One which I would be afraid to do. I really do not have the strength or fortitude to do that. But that is certainly inspiring. I can’t say the thought hasn’t occurred, but needless to say, I am a coward which I am never tired of repeating to our dear Lord. Each time He asks me for something, I have to remind him that he made a coward.

I am more like he is now. He has two natures, divine and human. Now I have two natures too, human and coward. But then I tell him it is really all his fault since he made me, and that usually settles things. As you can see, I’m really high on the plane of spirituallity since I’ve resolved all my faults with God’s doing. And that takes care of confession as well.

Anyway, it is good to hear from those who aren’t arguing for not going to sunday mass.

I guess I’ve always thought of consolations as a mixed bag. It’s great to have them, but I know its probably better for me if I don’t. Then there are periods with and without. The greatest favor I can receive is if Jesus would grant one more person to his kingdom because it is so aweful to think of someone not making it, even if it is Hitler.

Just some thoughts and some thanks.
 
BTW, I meant to ask you, did you ever have a ‘born again’ experience in your life?

micah
Several. Once upon a time I wanted to be a pastor with the Assemblies of God. God, on the other hand, wanted me to be Catholic. Since I am a married woman, being a pastor was clearly out of the question, as I don’t meet the most basic requirement for the job! 🤷
Kris
 
Several. Once upon a time I wanted to be a pastor with the Assemblies of God. God, on the other hand, wanted me to be Catholic. Since I am a married woman, being a pastor was clearly out of the question, as I don’t meet the most basic requirement for the job! 🤷
Kris
Kris,

If you do not mind, when you had these experiences of being ‘born again’ can you describe to us what took place ‘spiritually’ within you?

(If you think God has given you some sort of pastoral gift, could you not do some sort of pastoral type ministry among the elderly, and shut-ins through your local parish?)

Thank you for your response,

may God’s peace be with you

micah
 
I’ve noticed through my past few years of belief that I rarely feel “on fire for the Lord”, I rarely sense God’s presence, my prayers are dry, receive consolations, and so on. These periods can last several years with only short breaks in between — and we’re talking a few days max, except for a couple weeks once, and a straight up experience of infused contemplation on and off for a month or two. I rarely feel Christian.
I can never understand why people consider that a bad thing. So you’re not all charismatic and living out the life straight out of a saint’s biography. You don’t eat or drink religious expression, evangelical counterculture, and act in a way that obsessively wears the Faith on your sleeves.

So what?

I for one am glad am not like that. I can find it cute in others (even attractive). But do I want it for myself? More so, do I feel called to act like that? I don’t and again, thank God for that! :rolleyes: Frankly, I find that image has just as much potential for harm and unhealthiness as a life completely devoid, inside and outside, of religious spirituality.

To be perfectly blunt, when I imagine the kind of religious you are describing, I imagine a Don Quixote.
I’m on the tail end of about a years worth of extreme and hellish depression. But even before the depression I still didn’t receive these things. Pre-baptism, post-baptism, confirmed, first communion, nothing except those few short breaks. God also seems to answer my prayers less as well. I figure this could be one of those Dark Nights, but that would mean that I’m already in the Night of the Soul, seeing as I experienced infused contemplation. But I don’t really think I’m holy enough for that. But what else would explain several mystical experiences punctuating these things?
When I find a prayer not answered, it’s usually because God’s already given me the means to get the answer myself. I say this as someone who still deals with self-esteem issues while sharing the same social space as people with narcissistic tendencies. When I’m alone in the dark by myself, I realize that maybe myself was all I ever needed. Now I’m not saying you play the lone wolf because even this loner’s got friends now too. 😉 I’m just saying that maybe the answers you’re looking for are already there and you just need to help yourself to them.
 
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