Is there anything spouses should hide from each other?

[Phemie]

Just thinking out loud, it seems as if on this forum, the recommendations from priests are very consistent in this regard, and yet people do not seem to accept it. I think that priests have a LOT of experience in these matters, and maybe we should trust their answer as opposed to our instincts.

Oh, we may say we want to know if our spouse cheats, but that does not mean it is best.

I think if no one knows of the affair but hubby and mistress, I wouldn’t want to know. But it’s been my experience that the community is often much more aware of the affair than the guilty couple thinks. If it were happening to me I think I would be more devasted by being thought a fool by the town than by the betrayal.

 

[Pomme]

I agree about the nagging part being totally destructive and the forgiving part being necessary.However,you might never have been in this position-nor the priests,because silence and lack of trust between spouses is the most damaging to the realtionship+down the road the cheater will only get worse because it takes a lot of help to get rid of this vice.It is much better also to be true as soon as possible:the more years and the worse the cheating becomes,the more distance there will be,the more damage…
The spouse will have VERY hurt feelings-but they are already hurt because a distance can be felt anyway-but the spouse HAS the graces to forgive,as the one who did wrong has the graces to be true and faithful again(with all the help God can send through different strategies etc…)So that means a lot of negative self estime and crying and all of that but no nagging involved necessarily,especially if the spouse is trying hard to repare the damage and is changing.
Ask people who cheat,they will tell you how they confess,do it,confess,and do it always…It takes the spouse knowing or another traumatic event for them to be really wanting to change.
And to get help(group,counseling,etc…) how can spouses hide that from each other(phone calls during the night w accountability partners,appointments…without one of them worrying and thinking wild things?The truth is better than imagining,and a cheater can’t expect a spouse to just trust him/her,be faithful to him/her if he can’t trust by not telling,can’t be faithful by sinning-and not reacting enough to the behavior.
We are all sinners and we all need to be honest with that,even the cheaters.

 

[Della]

I think if no one knows of the affair but hubby and mistress, I wouldn’t want to know. But it’s been my experience that the community is often much more aware of the affair than the guilty couple thinks. If it were happening to me I think I would be more devasted by being thought a fool by the town than by the betrayal.

But would the community think you a fool or rather think of you as innocent and put upon? I would never classify a spouse a fool who didn’t know about an affair. After all, a fool is not defined by what he cannot know, but what he does know but finds acceptable anyway. No one is saying it’s acceptable for a spouse to cheat, but it is forgiveable by both God and the spouse who learns about it.

 

[Pomme]

Also,I don’t mean to blame the priests.I just think they are cautious because of the divorce rates,and really the betrayal shouldn’t happen in the first place for a marriage to last,but if there is betrayal,it is heart-breaking to think about the reaction of the spouse,a possible separation and all that…+the fact that some people do want to tell the spouse only because they feel guilty -to feel better,not really thinking of how they can make it better for the spouse and with the spouse.
So maybe these priests think that this marriage is in trouble anyway let’s not make it worst especially if the cheater is only wanting to feel better with his guilt by telling.
But the cheated spouse has a right to have a better marriage than that (when you read the texts of the sacrament!),and it can only be restored by changing and repairing and being true-even if it’s a scary thought at first!
I think a spouse who sins is fooling him/herself by telling him/herself he/she will repare by penance and prayer,unfortunately.

 

[EasterJoy]

It doesn’t matter what I think the spouse would want. It matters what the spouse wants. You don’t know unless you ask.

In other words, don’t keep any secrets from your spouse that your spouse would not want you to keep, and don’t unburden yourself of secrets that your spouse has been clear that he or she does not want to know, unless you get your spouse’s permission or you have a very good reason. (Spouses do not get infinite carte blanche to keep their heads in the sand. If they need to know, they need to know.)

Communication, it is a wonderful thing.

 

[Della]

I think we have to be careful when we talk about rights in this context. Sure, no spouse should cheat. That’s a given. But, do people cheat anyway? Yes, they do. For the one who cheats the reasons are important–is it a sickness for which they need professional help or was it a one time thing they deeply regret? If the latter, then prayer and penance is sufficient. In any case, prayer and penance are always right and good even if a person struggles with a besetting sin. We have certain rights, but love always trumps such personal rights, and always should for we love our spouse not merely with human love but with God’s love which is sacrificial and always willing to forgive.

 

[Pomme]

I agree love is sacrificial and forgiving,and that fits in very well with knowing the truth too…
However,somebody who cheats does not have a sacrificial and forgiving love for his/her spouse,especially if he/she protect him/herself by hiding it-it’s all selfishness to avoid consequences on top of it.
I also think penance and prayer is always good-but it does not replace doing the right thing.
I wouldn’t care looking like a fool to the community but having a marriage based on hiding(form of lie),yes that is a total misconception of being married and one flesh.
I don’t think that is unrealistic,we lived both situations husband and I,and the truth is totally better(with having to forgive and all…)I come from a blessed family with very strong marriages as examples(parents,gd-parents,uncles and aunts),and the key is being honest,charitable and heart to heart.It is not being romantic ,it’s having common sense.

 

[EasterJoy]

I think if no one knows of the affair but hubby and mistress, I wouldn’t want to know. But it’s been my experience that the community is often much more aware of the affair than the guilty couple thinks. If it were happening to me I think I would be more devasted by being thought a fool by the town than by the betrayal.

When we start worrying about our reputations instead of merely guarding the conscience of others by trying to avoid giving scandal, we have come to a “get thee behind me, Satan” moment.

One of the best things for our spiritual well-being is to serve God first and to care very little who thinks us a fool or a saint for doing it. Be faithful to the marriage and to your duty to help get both your spouse and yourself to heaven, and* to h**l* with what anyone in town thinks!

 

[Pomme]

It doesn’t matter what I think the spouse would want. It matters what the spouse wants. You don’t know unless you ask.

In other words, don’t keep any secrets from your spouse that your spouse would not want you to keep, and don’t unburden yourself of secrets that your spouse has been clear that he or she does not want to know, unless you get your spouse’s permission or you have a very good reason. (Spouses do not get infinite carte blanche to keep their heads in the sand. If they need to know, they need to know.)

Communication, it is a wonderful thing.

I agree with you don’t know unless you ask,and I think also that communication is a wonderful thing.
The head in the sand situation is all too common from both spouse and look how many marriages last nowadays…
I also believe timing is very important:always communicate about diffiicult matters at a time when you are both well together,and you will not be disturbed or embarassed.

 

[EasterJoy]

I agree with you don’t know unless you ask,and I think also that communication is a wonderful thing.
The head in the sand situation is all too common from both spouse and look how many marriages last nowadays…
I also believe timing is very important:always communicate about diffiicult matters at a time when you are both well together,and you will not be disturbed or embarassed.

You are right about that…although I don’t think there is a way to bring up the issue of how your spouse would feel if you were committing sexual sins that can be guaranteed to be neither disturbing nor embarrassing. From my experience, though, talking about it as a theoretical issue in the context of someone else’s behavior is a reasonable opportunity.

 

[Della]

I agree love is sacrificial and forgiving,and that fits in very well with knowing the truth too…
However,somebody who cheats does not have a sacrificial and forgiving love for his/her spouse,especially if he/she protect him/herself by hiding it-it’s all selfishness to avoid consequences on top of it.
I also think penance and prayer is always good-but it does not replace doing the right thing.
I wouldn’t care looking like a fool to the community but having a marriage based on hiding(form of lie),yes that is a total misconception of being married and one flesh.
I don’t think that is unrealistic,we lived both situations husband and I,and the truth is totally better(with having to forgive and all…)I come from a blessed family with very strong marriages as examples(parents,gd-parents,uncles and aunts),and the key is being honest,charitable and heart to heart.It is not being romantic ,it’s having common sense.

Romance has nothing to do with forgiveness nor with what is best for a couple going through this sort of difficulty. Sometimes is it better for the innocent spouse not to know, and better for the marriage. It depends on the persons involved. This is not a black and white issue–there is no one answer as to whether or not a spouse should be told/needs to know. It depends on how much damage knowing would or would not have. In most cases I would agree that knowing is better so the reasons for cheating can be faced and dealt with. But, demanding to know is another thing–something I don’t think anyone has the right to do because our own sins are our own responsibility and not that of anyone else, not even a spouse.

 

[1inICXC]

Having recently found about about my wife’s cheating while we were engaged, I would say that unless you never,ever speak of it again, and there is no way that the spouse will find out, cheating should be kept secret. If the cheater can live in that kind of relationship, it is better not to hurt the innocent spouse.

In my case I would have preferred to have known prior to marriage, but once married there is very little that can be done. Unless a declaration of nullility can be obtained, I see no purpose in being hurt like that.Prior to marriage the innocent party can decide to end the relationship or forgive and continue on. It is not so easy with children involved.

Unfortunately I found out through email left open on a shared computer. I have not yet decided on how to deal with it, but it hurts to know that someone you trusted so much was able to hide this kind of secret for so long. It makes you wonder what else they can hide and erodes the marriage significantly. She doesn’t know that I know and I am seeking counsel on how to deal with it.

I’m so sorry for your painful situation. I would feel and think exactly like you! Terrible thing to be forced to live with a lie that youdon’t want to be part of. I do pray that bringing it tolight will make more good come out of it.

For what its worth. I recently pre martial classes with our priest with my wife and he brought this subject up. He told both of us that if we cheated, we should not tell the other one because it relieves the guilty of the guilt and pushes pain upon the person you are going to be with the rest of their life.

The above post is one of the main reasons why i think divulging the truth is better than hiding it. The perpetual fear of knowing you might get “found out” can paralyze a person and certainly the relationship. And once you do get found out, you might lose everything.

I do however believe, that any kind of infedility should only be confessed to the spouse once a certain time of remission has elapsed. It’s s one thing to find out my husband watched porn 2 years ago but because of renwed faith and commitment he hasn’t done it since and it’s another thing if he tells me that he’s been addicted to porn until yesterday.
And, no matter what the infidelity, contrition, contrition and reparation in order to heal the damage.

Again, in our situation, while it was difficuft to swallow the truth at the time we made our big, deep dark secrets, confession and it did haunt us for some time, with the years we’ve really found healing and overcame the shame much better than if we had kept it buried forever.

 

[Della]

The above post is one of the main reasons why i think divulging the truth is better than hiding it. The perpetual fear of knowing you might get “found out” can paralyze a person and certainly the relationship. And once you do get found out, you might lose everything.

I do however believe, that any kind of infedility should only be confessed to the spouse once a certain time of remission has elapsed. It’s s one thing to find out my husband watched porn 2 years ago but because of renwed faith and commitment he hasn’t done it since and it’s another thing if he tells me that he’s been addicted to porn until yesterday.
And, no matter what the infidelity, contrition, contrition and reparation in order to heal the damage.

Again, in our situation, while it was difficuft to swallow the truth at the time we made our big, deep dark secrets, confession and it did haunt us for some time, with the years we’ve really found healing and overcame the shame much better than if we had kept it buried forever.

However, in the context of confession, once a sin has been confessed it is gone forever. There is no longer anything to hide or repress. In such a case, if the spouse never learns and the offense is never repeated more harm than good might come of revealing the affair. Besides, forgiveness means letting go. Perfect love holds no grudges nor brings up old grieviences–not that you were doing that, but the point being our feelings should not be the only/main gage for getting on after such a thing happens. There are any number of ways people can hurt one another in marriage. It’s best to let all such things go, heal, and love with God’s love that cannot fail. Not that anyone here would want to, but it’s so easy to let our past mistakes dictate our future happiness. Confession is meant to begin the process of healing so that all is forgiven and forgotten for good. Any penance or reparation is a matter between the penitent and the priest. If letting another know that reparation is being made will only make things worse, the other person doesn’t have to know. Reparation also be prayer and does not have to be “making it up” to another person if that would not help matters.

 

[Pomme]

You are right about that…although I don’t think there is a way to bring up the issue of how your spouse would feel if you were committing sexual sins that can be guaranteed to be neither disturbing nor embarrassing. From my experience, though, talking about it as a theoretical issue in the context of someone else’s behavior is a reasonable opportunity.

I meant it more in a practical way-lo-like no children in the next room or not in a restaurant,to not be disturbed.When you have kids the best is to wait past midnight
Also you can use emails to start with?I don’t know,giving suggestions

 

[Pomme]

Romance has nothing to do with forgiveness nor with what is best for a couple going through this sort of difficulty. Sometimes is it better for the innocent spouse not to know, and better for the marriage. It depends on the persons involved. This is not a black and white issue–there is no one answer as to whether or not a spouse should be told/needs to know. It depends on how much damage knowing would or would not have. In most cases I would agree that knowing is better so the reasons for cheating can be faced and dealt with. But, demanding to know is another thing–something I don’t think anyone has the right to do because our own sins are our own responsibility and not that of anyone else, not even a spouse.

Yes that is true,the spouse can never come up and say tell me what you said in confession,but if there is an uneasy feeling that something might be going on or that the relationship is lacking something then if one spouse asks an honest answer then I do think it should be given,confessed or not.It still happened even if God forgave in the confessional,and the spouse is given by God to help overcome weaknesses.
I think that also one doesn’t have to talk about every temptation-that would be terrible-or even a sin that was of minimal damage and quickly suppressed like a bad thought -but the bigger the sin and also the more it happened,the more it becomes a duty to be honest with the spouse(while being considerate and do it at the right time,like if the spouse is facing a big illness,or loosing a parent,of course,timing is not everything but almost!)…

 

[Pomme]

Romance has nothing to do with forgiveness nor with what is best for a couple going through this sort of difficulty. Sometimes is it better for the innocent spouse not to know, and better for the marriage. It depends on the persons involved. This is not a black and white issue–there is no one answer as to whether or not a spouse should be told/needs to know. It depends on how much damage knowing would or would not have. In most cases I would agree that knowing is better so the reasons for cheating can be faced and dealt with. But, demanding to know is another thing–something I don’t think anyone has the right to do because our own sins are our own responsibility and not that of anyone else, not even a spouse.

Sorry I don’t express myself v well!What I meant is I don’t think it’s being romantic or idealistic to be wanting a better marriage- a good strong marriage even if there has been mistakes and betrayal.And I believe honesty is mandatory,with reasonable limits,I think it is more common sense to think that,rather than irrealistic expectations(or romantic ideas)…

 

[Della]

Sorry I don’t express myself v well!What I meant is I don’t think it’s being romantic or idealistic to be wanting a better marriage- a good strong marriage even if there has been mistakes and betrayal.And I believe honesty is mandatory,with reasonable limits,I think it is more common sense to think that,rather than irrealistic expectations(or romantic ideas)…

So true! How many people enter into marriage with stars in their eyes not expecting disappointments and failings only to leave it at the first sign of trouble? Too many these days. :yup:

 

[Struggling323]

Just thinking out loud, it seems as if on this forum, the recommendations from priests are very consistent in this regard, and yet people do not seem to accept it. I think that priests have a LOT of experience in these matters, and maybe we should trust their answer as opposed to our instincts.

Oh, we may say we want to know if our spouse cheats, but that does not mean it is best.

I think the telling thing is most of those replies, start with “I think” or “i would rather”.

I googled for quite some time and found nothing on it other than what a few priest told the person who asked. I even saw this same question asked in "ask an apologist’ section and he himself said that maybe they SHOULD, but its not necessary and not required. You could tell that “doing the right thing” (in our minds) and “what the church tells you to do” were a conflict by the way he answered.

 

[Struggling323]

So true! How many people enter into marriage with stars in their eyes not expecting disappointments and failings only to leave it at the first sign of trouble? Too many these days. :yup:

Its funny you bring this up. My wife and I never had a “honeymoon” phase. We ended up believing that what people think is love, is what they learn it should be from others and from movies, songs, ect.

That sets us up for failure in my opinion because once people dont have those fireworks, they think something is wrong. I have had 3 “serious” relationships of 2+ years. Fireworks in all of them. With my wife, no real fireworks. In my “fireworks” relationships, the love dwindled over time. With my wife, it grows with each passing day.

I got off topic I know

 

[fm1982]

[Originally Posted by fm1982
Having recently found about about my wife’s cheating while we were engaged, I would say that unless you never,ever speak of it again, and there is no way that the spouse will find out, cheating should be kept secret. If the cheater can live in that kind of relationship, it is better not to hurt the innocent spouse.

Cheating should be kept a secret huh? Well I guess thats one of those things people should talk about prior to marriage… do I wanna know if you cheat… and what will be the consequences…

In my case I would have preferred to have known prior to marriage, but once married there is very little that can be done. Unless a declaration of nullility can be obtained,

The question is, would you have married if you had known about her cheating? If you know with all your heart that you would have ended the relationship then the marriage is based on fraud and you guys are probably not validly married.

I see no purpose in being hurt like that.Prior to marriage the innocent party can decide to end the relationship or forgive and continue on. It is not so easy with children involved.

Are there children involved?

Unfortunately I found out through email left open on a shared computer. I have not yet decided on how to deal with it, but it hurts to know that someone you trusted so much was able to hide this kind of secret for so long. It makes you wonder what else they can hide and erodes the marriage significantly. She doesn’t know that I know and I am seeking counsel on how to deal with it.

Indeed she hid it. You found out. Yet you say you think its okay to try to hide such things? In my oppinion the Biblical principle is this: if you commit a sin agianst your brother (here spouse) you go and reconsile with him. Only then should you come to the alter (confession)… Jesus says this clearly. Besides, when we go to confession what we do is we seek reconsiliation not only with God but also with the Church. Should we not then seek to confess to the spouse which we have wronged in a covenant relationship?
I would not marry a man who thought its okay to deceive more and more once he had cheated…

Sorry, let me clear up he confusion. Prior to marriage don’t think cheating should ever be hidden. Tell the other person so that they can decide to accept what happened and move on in the relationship or end it.

The thing with us was that we did discuss cheating and the consequences and that it would be impossible for her to continue the marriage if I cheated. I said I would have great difficulty in he relationship if she cheated after we were married. The fact that she was trying to put in a double standard,no tolerance for me, but she felt she deserved a little more forgiveness should have been a massive red flag, I know looking back I missed a few of those.

Once married, especially with kids involved, I don’t see the value in telling just to get it off your chest. Repent before God and never do it again. Different people have different opinions, but I would have rather not known. The fact that she was telling others, actually read more like bragging, meant she didn’t really care about how it coming out would affect me and our relationship.

Would we have gone through with the wedding? No. I do feel like the last seven years have been fake now knowing that she could hide auch a thing. Had she kept quiet, there is such a small probability I would have found out. It happened hundreds of miles from where we live.

The major complicating factor is the kids. In my area I would likely have to give up a significant portion if custody to divorce, so I do feel stuck in a lot of ways without a huge fiht. There are other issues, so finding out about the cheating with everything else going on has been a very hurtful experience.

I know if that if the shoe was on the other foot I could have not gone through with the wedding without telling her. I would feel like such a fraud that I could have not done it. Then again while in a committed relationship where I was planning a wedding , I could never have gone ahead and cheated.
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