Is there Hard Evidence?

[Scowler]

What kind of HARD evidence can you bring up for your basic beliefs? For example, what hard evidence is there for an “immortal soul”? Or any “soul” for that matter. Or for heaven or hell? Angels? Demons? Never in my life have I seen anything that I could have accepted as hard evidence. Thank you for your time and effort.

 

[RandomAlias]

Sorry, there is no material evidence. What else, if anything, would you consider hard evidence?

 

[Sir2v4]

Well, of course, you’re nibbling at the subject of the proof of God’s existence – ultimately. I’m not strong on discussing that abstractly. The Bible says, “faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the words of Christ (or, God).”

The Bible says that the world is the obvious evidence for God, although a lot of people do not naturally accept that. I find that the Bible is remarkably truthful and consistent – again, many people can’t grasp it, or they chip away at small pieces of it, to reject it all by an extension of some small difficulty that they find or don’t understand.

My life has been full of miracles, things that never should have happened. Even in particular moments I have seen things happen that have no other explanation to me than divine assistance, as if I was being pushed to believe something and act on it.

Three months ago, for example, I looked at my neighbor’s house, which I’ve looked at for 50 of my 68 years, and it has always looked the same, except for this one day. For no “objective” reason, I became concerned about my neighbor, and indeed he was unable to move because of heart failure. He didn’t answer the door (that I could tell) and I called our 911 central dispatch, and they came and got him. He later stated that I saved his life. Yes, there was a certain pattern that alerted me to what was going on, but that day I had the certainty that he was in trouble. I prayed for him all the time. And, as if answering a prayer, I was given the knowledge and motivation to act, when it made a difference.

This may be laughable to you. This may be attributed to coincidence or chance. Or, this may seem like superstition. But, things like this have happened in my life more often than I can even remember (maybe not so dramatic as this one). Very improbable things have happened to me, beyond the control of chance.

Now, these are not the basis of my faith, but they are the consequences of it.

 

[Sir2v4]

The hard evidence is the testimony and fulfillment of scripture.

 

[CatholicSpirit]

We all die, 100%. That’s stated in the Book of Genesis and has stood true for at least 7,000+ recorded years. If there’s one thing you can count on, it’s dying

Jesus Christ was the only one to get past that.

 

[exnihilo]

Aristotle argued for the immortal soul. You can check out his writtings on that. As for hard evidence of course it won’t be something like a photograph. But it will be reason which is the basis for all hard evidence such as photographs.

 

[De_Maria]

What kind of HARD evidence can you bring up for your basic beliefs? For example, what hard evidence is there for an “immortal soul”? Or any “soul” for that matter. Or for heaven or hell? Angels? Demons? Never in my life have I seen anything that I could have accepted as hard evidence. Thank you for your time and effort.

Certainly. Engage me for a minute. You have a life? What hard evidence can you produce to prove that you have a life?

 

[BornInMarch]

There are thousands of eye-witnesses, and it seems like a logical conclusion to things that have been empirically proven.

 

[Gorgias]

What kind of HARD evidence can you bring up for your basic beliefs? For example, what hard evidence is there for an “immortal soul”? Or any “soul” for that matter.

Umm… the “immortal soul” is a completely non-physical thing. By “hard evidence”, I presume you mean “physical evidence.”

What kind of “physical evidence” do you expect to find for something that’s not physical?

(Conversely, what kind of validity do you think that you’ll reach, in your conclusions, asking for physical evidence of a non-physical entity and finding none?)

 

[PJM]

What kind of HARD evidence can you bring up for your basic beliefs? For example, what hard evidence is there for an “immortal soul”? Or any “soul” for that matter. Or for heaven or hell? Angels? Demons? Never in my life have I seen anything that I could have accepted as hard evidence. Thank you for your time and effort[/-23-24QUOTE]

Know dear friend that THERE IS EVIDENCE
The bibles 1st book; Genesis tells us the GOD FREELY choose to Create humanity [an exclusive] in His Own very Image. Gen 1:26-27
The Gospel of John 4: 23 them tells US that GOD is “SPIRIT”
So HOW then do we reconcile mortal humanity & Divine immortality?
God freely choose to gift All human Souls with a mind, intellect and FFEEWILL; thus humanity alone are the only RATIONAL beings on planet earth…. I have come to TERM this as “our Other Self”
This “Other Self” LIKE our God is both Spirit & immortal; can never die or be killed, and fulfills the promise of our God to be made in HIS Image.
Now my friend, if you doubt this reality; then quantify for us your OWN FREEWILL. Only ignorance would try to deny its existence. So WHAT THEN is your FREESWILLS size, weight, color and shape? … These questions cannot be answered yet FREEWIIL EXIST.

So my friend the evidence you seek, does exist, BUT it Is SPIRITUAL, logical and irrefutable.

We then NEED to ask: WHY did God gift each human soul and make us exclusively-RATIONAL

Good and evil exist. God is the source of All Good, and We [humanity] are the source of evil. [Natural disasters is a separate topic].

GOD is incapable of evil and can be described as ALL GOOD THINGS PERFCTED

Even science acknowledges that actions MUST HAVE consequences. … This TRUE also in the Moral life [OUR Life’s]. Our life choices MUST absolutely matter

Because we ALONE can ultimately choose good or evil; those choices MUST cause a reaction. So that is WHY heaven & hell exist. It is Divine Justice.
SPACE is limited or I’d share more. ASK God to help you find HIS TRUTHS
Patrick

 

[MPat]

What kind of HARD evidence can you bring up for your basic beliefs? For example, what hard evidence is there for an “immortal soul”? Or any “soul” for that matter. Or for heaven or hell? Angels? Demons? Never in my life have I seen anything that I could have accepted as hard evidence. Thank you for your time and effort.

First of all, “hard evidence” (or even “HARD evidence”) is left undefined. At this point it is not even certain that it really means anything.

Second, why are you demanding not merely “evidence”, but “hard evidence”? Is there some reason to want it? Do you demand “hard evidence” for other claims as well? Do you have it when you accept them?

For example, you claim:

Never in my life have I seen anything that I could have accepted as hard evidence.

Do you have “hard evidence” to support this claim?

 

[Frankenfurter]

Suppose there was hard evidence?

Now let’s imagine that this hard evidence was given to us a long time ago?

What do you suppose would have happened to it?

Would it have caused wars? Would it have cause mankind to try to exploit it for evil? Would it have caused us to destroy it on purpose? Would we be able to handle it? Would it cause people to drop everything and just spend their days trying to get near to it?

It seems obvious to me that any kind of hard evidence for God would have led directly to our destruction. I also think that God knew this.

So, the hard evidence that we are given is accessible ONLY to those who cannot exploit it. But it is also accessible and available to all. That evidence is the Eucharist. It is an ideal situation.

Blessed are the pure of heart for they shall see God.

 

[po18guy]

You are standing on it. You gaze upwards upon it. Don McLean wrote a song about it (“Starry starry night”). Creation.

 

[Thom18]

I can’t think of any empirical evidence which claims that God or a soul certainly exist. Those are both metaphysically simple, not made of matter, so how could they be proven empirically?

Likewise, empirical evidence can’t tell us what morals we should follow, for example. Empirical evidence (detecting pain, etc.) can help guide us towards these determinations, but morality or God or the soul can’t be proven by “hard evidence” alone.

 

[RandomAlias]

Scowler, you still here?

 

[Scowler]

Aristotle argued for the immortal soul.

I am afraid that the ideas of someone who believed that the brain is just the organ to cool the blood does not carry a whole lot of water.

What hard evidence can you produce to prove that you have a life?

We could meet somewhere and you could see me in person. But that is not the point. Not all claims are equally important. For run-of-the-mill claims I would not require any special evidence.

First of all, “hard evidence” (or even “HARD evidence”) is left undefined. At this point it is not even certain that it really means anything.

Very true. I did not want to posit any special limitations. As for “hard” evidence, it is something that cannot be dismissed at will, because it is well substantiated.

Umm… the “immortal soul” is a completely non-physical thing. By “hard evidence”, I presume you mean “physical evidence.”

No, not necessarily. There are zillions of “things” (in the widest possible meaning) which are not composed of matter. For example one of my best friends just suffered a fatal heart attack and his wife (both of them were my class-mates in college) is devastated. I do not need any hard evidence to believe her.

The level of evidence is tied to the importance of the claim - as I said before. Consider a hypothetical scenario: “suppose that a member of your family (whom you knew all your life to be very kind and good person) would be arrested for some heinous crime.” Would you not require the police to supply a very well established evidence for this? I am sure you would. Simple word of others, even the words of some policemen would not be sufficient to convince you of such claim. And not because I would a-priori be suspicious that they are lying, but because such a claim is too improbable to accept without rock-solid foundation.

After all you (in general) dismiss all the claims of other religions.

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Sorry for the late response. I did not know when my post was released for public viewing, and I only saw it a few hours ago. Thank you for your responses.

 

[Gorgias]

exnihilo:

Aristotle argued for the immortal soul.

I am afraid that the ideas of someone who believed that the brain is just the organ to cool the blood does not carry a whole lot of water.

So… if someone is wrong in physiology, he’s necessarily wrong in philosophy? Wow… I hope you’ve never been wrong about anything, dude…

Umm… the “immortal soul” is a completely non-physical thing. By “hard evidence”, I presume you mean “physical evidence.”

No, not necessarily. There are zillions of “things” (in the widest possible meaning) which are not composed of matter.

Aah… but, if you’re talking about things that have material effects, your argument falls apart.

For example one of my best friends just suffered a fatal heart attack and his wife (both of them were my class-mates in college) is devastated. I do not need any hard evidence to believe her.

You have physical evidence. That’s why you believe her. And, that physical evidence is what the OP is asking about.

The level of evidence is tied to the importance of the claim - as I said before. Consider a hypothetical scenario: “suppose that a member of your family (whom you knew all your life to be very kind and good person) would be arrested for some heinous crime.” Would you not require the police to supply a very well established evidence for this?

Of course! It’s a claim about an event in the physical world – so, necessarily, you’d ask for physical proof.

Your claims don’t hold up, I’m afraid.

After all you (in general) dismiss all the claims of other religions.

Not on the basis of lack of empirical evidence.

 

[De_Maria]

What hard evidence can you produce to prove that you have a life?

We could meet somewhere and you could see me in person. But that is not the point. Not all claims are equally important. For run-of-the-mill claims I would not require any special evidence.

So you’re saying that seeing you in person is hard evidence of your life. In the same way, seeing you in person is hard evidence of your soul.

 

[MPat]

Very true. I did not want to posit any special limitations. As for “hard” evidence, it is something that cannot be dismissed at will, because it is well substantiated.

But all evidence can be dismissed at will.

Not all claims are equally important. For run-of-the-mill claims I would not require any special evidence.

And let me guess: the claims you happen to like somehow tend to get classified as those “run-of-the-mill claims” for which you “would not require any special evidence”?

After all you (in general) dismiss all the claims of other religions.

We do? And “all the claims”? Have you actually checked?

 

[exnihilo]

I am afraid that the ideas of someone who believed that the brain is just the organ to cool the blood does not carry a whole lot of water.

Aristotle was a great natural scientist as well as a great philosopher. His idea on physiology may have been proven wrong, but his philosophy hasn’t been.