Is there hope for a dead marriage?

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MissMaryMack said:
MCGar,

I have been tempted to tell Father exactly what I think. The Holy Spirit has held my tongue many times over the last year. I know that he does hear many of the same complaints from other people about his poor counsel, his bad teachings, and his lack of responsibility. I know he is a very weak man who needs many prayers. I also know my witness to him sends a stronger message than my angry words.

If my husband would put his priorities in order and tell him so, it would be the witness our priest also needs. There is something about it coming from another man that makes it different and admirable. I just read something on the Couples for Christ website in dhgray’s signature. It said that the condition of families determines the condition of society. I know that Pope Pius XIII said the same thing. My husband has the opportunity to live out this truth. He hasn’t decided to do it so far but if he does I know it will create a dynamic change in our house and our parish.
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MissMaryMack, I don’t think I would be holding my tongue any longer. Sounds like they are both getting away with this because noone challenges them with it. Confront this priest and let him know the damage he is doing to your marriage. He needs someone to tell him that the way he is behaving is totally inappropriate.
I am saddened to hear posters declaring that ‘you made a big mistake in marrying him’ and that ‘you forced the situation’ etc etc. There are many many marriages that have had equally or more turmoil and have worked out and also turned into strong and happy marriages. None of us can tell you that you made a mistake. None of us know what God has in store for you. You believed at the time that he loved you, that he would make you happy as he defended you so strongly to prove his love. Anyone would have believed the same. He showed you in many ways that he loved you. And unless you held a gun to his head to make him stand at that altar before God, you did not force the marriage. He has free will. Do not feel stupid or that you should have known better. There are many signs we could see, but don’t and things could work out just fine. There are many times where we have no warning at all and they don’t work out.
It feels to me that sometimes you are being chastised, people saying ‘I told you so…’ sort of thing. How is anyone to know? Especially us being total strangers on the internet.
You must have believed at the time it would work out or why would you have married him?
Anyway, there is always hope. Don’t give up but just trust in God. whichever way you are meant to go, He will lead you and guide you, and when it gets too tough, He will carry you.
God bless.
 
The only thing I can add is to say that our marriage disintegrated too,but we got help. Retrouvaille literally saved our marriage and our family. Please check it out. It really does work.
 
OK. Enough people have said it that I’m allowing myself the slightest bit of excitement about retrovaille. Just how do they work these miracles? What is so good and life-changing?
 
jules11 said:
MissMaryMack, I don’t think I would be holding my tongue any longer. Sounds like they are both getting away with this because noone challenges them with it. Confront this priest and let him know the damage he is doing to your marriage. He needs someone to tell him that the way he is behaving is totally inappropriate.
I am saddened to hear posters declaring that ‘you made a big mistake in marrying him’ and that ‘you forced the situation’ etc etc. There are many many marriages that have had equally or more turmoil and have worked out and also turned into strong and happy marriages. None of us can tell you that you made a mistake. None of us know what God has in store for you. You believed at the time that he loved you, that he would make you happy as he defended you so strongly to prove his love. Anyone would have believed the same. He showed you in many ways that he loved you. And unless you held a gun to his head to make him stand at that altar before God, you did not force the marriage. He has free will. Do not feel stupid or that you should have known better. There are many signs we could see, but don’t and things could work out just fine. There are many times where we have no warning at all and they don’t work out.
It feels to me that sometimes you are being chastised, people saying ‘I told you so…’ sort of thing. How is anyone to know? Especially us being total strangers on the internet.
You must have believed at the time it would work out or why would you have married him?
Anyway, there is always hope. Don’t give up but just trust in God. whichever way you are meant to go, He will lead you and guide you, and when it gets too tough, He will carry you.
God bless.
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[SIGN]AMEN![/SIGN]
 
MissMaryMack, my heart goes out to you and this terrible situation you find yourself in.:console: You need to talk to someone (other than the priest whom your husband spoke to 😦 ) who is used to dealing with situations like this and who can give you good advice. You do not deserve to be treated like this. Maybe find a good Priest who will give you helpful advice and understanding. I’ll remember you in my prayers. Stay strong.🙂
 
MissMaryMack said:
Island Oak,…Our priest is encouraging my husband to be a deacon. My husband plans to pursue it. Neither seem to care that I think he needs to be leading his family first and better living out his faith internally.

… I can’t accept being nothing to my husband and I consider my options again.
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Becoming a deacon is in istelf a wonderful thing. However , not a panacea to an ailing marriage. I feel it would be hypocritical if he isn’t willing to work on making your marriage work. He should work on that first.

And no, you don’t have to “settle” for anything. You DO have options. Talk to your priest. And I would suggest not the same one your husband talks with.

Kathy
 
Mary,

It sounds like you will find the Retrouvaille weekend to fit your needs. Retrouvaille is a program for marriages in trouble, which is a profile which your marriage seems to fit. I won’t give out all of the details, but basically they will give you a set of communication tools and time enough alone to work on your relationship free from distractions. Retrouvaille weekends have counselors where as Marriage Encounter does not. It also includes a followup period which many couples find helpful. This is certainly something you can use.

I hope to hear you have scheduled your weekend 🙂
 
Why won’t you “give it away”?

We’ve been through the communication tools and time alone routine. We had cards that said to share our hopes, dreams, and fears and daily experiences on one side and then outlined a conversation pattern on the other. When you do… it makes me feel… I would like you to… that type of thing.

We sat staring at each other. He has nothing to say and just shrugs. I dunno. That’s all he says. A grunt, a hmm, and an I don’t know. He did this in front of a licensed psychologist when we were going to counseling. He agreed to work on certain things and that they needed to be done, but resented it and didn’t really want to do it and never did.

If all they do is give us communication tools and alone time, I’m afraid it won’t do us any good at all. Communication tools don’t do any good when a strongly introverted person doesn’t see the need in communication. Is there something more to it?
 
I also urge you to attend Marriage Encounter or Retroville (sp?). I have not been to eihter, but I have heard wonderful reccomendations from many people who have attended. If you truly want to save your marrige, take this opportunity that your husband (and your priest) are holding out. Your fought for your marriage before, fight again!

I would also reccomend that you go to a neighboring parish for advice from that priest as well. Driving 3.5 hours may be enough of a deterient to keep you from attending confession, but you need the grace of the sacrements as well.

We just found out that a wonderful couple we know is in the first stages of divorce (as are my husband’s sister and her husband). We have dedicated our rosaries this month to their marriages and to other marriage ‘on the rocks’. I will include you in our intentions.
 
Well, he certainly sees the need for communication when it comes to his priest buddy. It almost sounds like they are in the beginning stages of an affair. Are you entirely certain your husband doesn’t have homosexual issues? I really hate to say this, and I don’t want to accuse a priest of God of anything, but weirder things have happened. But it just seems he’s more into his “buddy” than you. Maybe there is something the priest knows that you don’t know? Your husband’s mommy issues kind of make me wonder.

Having tried to give CPR to a dead marriage for too long, eventually I had to kick it into a ditch and throw a shovel of lye on it. It takes TWO to make a marriage, not one person doing 100 percent of the work.

Please no flaming. I’m just pointing out how things look from a distance.
 
Two reasons for not “giving it away” (Though somehow maybe I already did!)
  1. Primarily I refrain from saying too much over the weekend because it can setup the weekend to be rejected without experiencing it.
  2. But there is also the larger danger of myself missing somehow Retrouvaille might be able to help in ways I hadn’t known.
Going on the weekend may help, I know that it has worked for others. Of course, there are no guarantees in life, but it’s something worth talking to someone about.

So, talk to someone in Retrouvaille (call your local Retrouvaille), I know that if you have a program in your area they will be able to give you guidance as to what your best options are.

retrouvaille.org/
 
Liberanosomalo,

I have actually wondered this myself. It is how it looks. I know there is nothing with the priest for several reasons. On those late nights when he doesn’t come home, I still wonder who he is with. Usually it is some family member, which is a different problem. When he bought himself new underclothes (the preeminent sign of an affair) before a trip recently, I about lost it. I really am on the verge of a nervous breakdown after all this. I never had these tendencies before. He doesn’t see the problem. Why would I be so upset over him purchasing needed clothing?

I know he is not having a physical relationship with someone else. I don’t want to go into the whys, but he finds it abhorrent. This is why he doesn’t feel guilty, though. He would see a physical affair as being wrong and something to feel guilty about. He doesn’t see what is wrong with “having friends.” I find that he is doing the same thing others call an emotional affair.

Yesterday, he wasn’t alone with the priest without me. Still, when he was around him he was smiling and laughing. The priest would say something and my husband would find it enjoyable. If I said the same thing, he would have grunted. He doesn’t see the problem. He laughed at a joke or he talked about work and he doesn’t see anything wrong with it. I try to point out the problem is that he is giving this to another person and not his wife first. To him, it is two separate issues.

The priest made a mean joke about me and all this yesterday. My husband laughed. When he saw that I was upset, my husband pretended like he didn’t know why. He had the most sinister smirk on his face and he delighted in hurting me more. It was extremely painful. I’ve never seen him do that. He delighted in causing me pain.

He finally admitted that he knew why I was upset, but then said I had no right to be. The priest made a joke and I was too uptight. It was funny and appropriate because it came from someone who “knew us.” It only would have been a problem coming from a stranger.

I tried to explain why I was hurt. It usually ends in an apathetic shrug from my husband. Yesterday it ended in him saying he believes the priest should not have said it and he can see why I was hurt by it. He apologized a real apology for laughing. He said he was wrong.

If you could have viewed the difference in his face from when he was smirking in glee that I was hurting to when he realized what he had done, you would also know that this isn’t a physical battle but a spiritual one I am fighting.

So many tiny break-throughs have happened since I asked for prayers here. After 5 years, it is like a crack is opening into his soul. I am praying so hard that it doesn’t slam shut again.
 
My husband and I did the Retrouvaille weekend last weekend and just made the first post weekend yesterday. It has made a profound difference for us.It takes a willingness to work.

Send for the brochure, call and talk to someone specifically then present it to your husband. Maybe he’d be willing to try it. My husband and I both thought our marriage was ‘dead’. We met people who did the program who were divorced and now they are back together and had children to gether. Miracles can happen . I pray you and your husband are open to it.
 
MaryMack, don’t ever underestimate the power of Satan to work through a priest who is throwing away his own vocation to destroy a family. I’ve seen it happen. If what they are doing isn’t physical yet, it’s a highly charged emotional affair. The priest’s agenda may be totally different from your husband’s. There is a reason he was sent out into the boondocks by the bishop.

The priest is like an emotional parasite who is sucking your family dry. And I don’t usually say that about priests.

The fact the priest seems to have no friends other than your husband says volumes. He doesn’t have your husband’s best interests at heart. He’s using him as an emotional crutch. What he is doing is not very subtle, ridiculing you in front of your husband and undermining your image in your husband’s eyes. Doesn’t matter if husband later apologized, the seed was sown and he laughed WITH the priest AT you. The priest has probably used confidential information about you to undermine you when you weren’t around to hear it. Do NOT ever go to confession to him again. I don’t predict this man will even be functioning as a priest three years from now. I’ve seen this behavior before.

If the priest were intent on remaining a priest, he’d be on his knees in front of the Blessed Sacrament at midnight, not on the phone with YOUR husband.

And I believe you when you say your husband took pleasure in the malice and the pain he caused you. I had a husband who would ridicule me and laugh and act like no matter what he said, if he was “joking” it didn’t matter. You can dish out a lot of sadism with a smile on your face.

No, you are not crazy. You seem to be the only sane one in this bunch. And trust your instincts. Your husband may be being sucked into the vortex without knowing it. What he is doing to you is emotionallly abusive. It’s called “crazymaking.” It’s systematic. Sure he can say he’s sorry. But that’s after the damage is done to cover his tail.

I’d say get counselling, but most lay counsellors would not begin to understand the Catholic undertones here and I found them totally unhelpful in my case. There is only room for you and God and your husband in this marriage. Four is a crowd.

Sorry to be jaded, but if it was me, with what I know now, I’d tell you to take the child and leave and invite your husband to go live with the priest. His heart is not in this marriage and it hasn’t been for a long time. You are mourning the death of your dreams. No, you aren’t crazy. You are apparently the only one who cares enough that it’s over to be sad about it.

I wonder who this priest’s other victims are. This kind seldom only does it to one family. Again, he’s a problem and the bishop is hiding him in a far corner. It’s a scandal waiting to happen. I’ve seen it happen before, and it ended up on the front page of a paper and caused much damage to a good diocese.

Have masses said for that priest. He’s going to take a lot of souls with him to hell at the rate he’s going.
 
Mary,

I too, want to say Retrouvaille is saving my marriage. I’ve done 3 wks of it and it’s like my husband and I are a different couple. We had many problems, even though we just got married las yr, we were already thinking of divorce. We got to a point where things got physical, aside from the daily emotional war.

Retrouvaille has helped us in so many ways. My husband didn’t want to go to it because he thought it wasn’t going to help. He only went because I had faith in it, and look, 3 wks into it, we are more than thankful we are going to it. After the 1st weekend, my husband said to me he was noticing the changes and decided he was going because of his own will and not because he had promised me to go.

You will have couples there to help you (they are like counselors, but note that they aren’t professionals), you will also have a priest present, you will gain so much… please give Retrouvaille a chance. I told you before, a couple was on the verge of divorce and they said they hated each other, and now they have found out that they want to stay together because they rediscovered their partner.

Retrouvaille saved my marriage. Please go on www.retrouvaille.org and look for your state, and then the city closest to you. There you can find a phone number of someone you can call to find out more and to sign up. The 800 number is not helpful. I called about 20 times and didn’t get anyone to call me back, I only got a machine. Read the information on the website… from all I read on your posts, it looks as if Retrouvaille could be the way to go.

And if I were in your position regarding the priest, why don’t you call your diocese? This priest’s behavior is not acceptable. He shouldn’t be having such a relationship with your husband. It seems he’s turning your husband against you instead of helping your marriage. Please do report his behavior to the bishop.
 
Hello Miss Mary Mack,

I am so sorry to hear about your marriage. I will pray for you and your family.:crossrc: It’s sad that your priest wasn’t much help, you should look into someone else so they can help you work things out. Have you tried sitting down with him alone and talk? Express what you are going through and how you been feeling, tell him that you cry yourself to sleep. He can’t or hopefully he is not cold hearted, and he will open up his eyes. There has to something going through his mind that he is acting this way with you. It is not right for him to make major decisions, nor go sleep in the guest room. He needs to open up to you; if there is something going on with him, maybe a problem you can help him out with. I hope that this is some help. I will keep you in my prayers Mary. :hug3:

God Bless,

Gladys

:harp:
 
I’ve personally talked to the bishop. He has major issues he’s dealing with and can’t be bothered. He is also concerned about the priest and is handling him with kid gloves hoping he won’t apostatize. When I said that he’s undermining my marriage by being friends with my husband, the bishop sympathized and suggested we not be close to him, but it was obvious that he was thinking to himself “I’ve got this huge issue to deal with over here, and you want me to do something about your priest being friends with your husband?” He was sympathetic and polite, but he wasn’t going to do anything radical. I know the priest is depressed, but he needs a psychologist, not my husband.

The priest was nasty to me about two weeks later. He made a point of telling me a story he’s repeated often about the bishop calling him into his office about a letter of complaint he’d received, reading the letter to him, sharing with him who the anonymous letter was from, doing nothing about it including not telling him to stop doing what all agree was wrong, and sent him on his way. The message was clear that he was telling me he could get away with whatever he wants. It seemed to me like the bishop had said something to him, but not enough to let him know who said what to instigate it. So he was guessing who might have said something and making the rounds to the likely suspects to warn them off of telling the bishop and letting us know he isn’t afraid of the bishop. I know that isn’t true, though.

One time, I took a picture in church. I have standing permission, but he didn’t see who took it. He was obsessing trying to figure out who. There was a parishioner upset with him for not following the proper rubrics. He was really obsessed with figuring out if it was that guy who took the picture because he didn’t want to deal with the bishop. So I know it is a bravado and a way to manipulate me, but in my case it came out to be the truth. What’s the bishop going to do? Tell him he can’t have friends? It only made the situation worse because now the bishop, the priest, and my husband were all against me and I looked like the crazy one.

With the priest and the church forming the bulk of our life right now, the situation is bound to repeat. We need to try to expand our circle of people and activities. It is hard in a rural area and with a husband who doesn’t see the need and a priest constantly calling him to do something new.

I am aware of who Father’s spiritual father is. He also jokes about the advice he receives from him in the same way as he does about the bishop, to try to build himself up and let us know everyone but our parish thinks he is great. It is obvious to me that he’s saying things out of context and omitting important points. I’ve considered contacting his spiritual father, but I feel that that is really inappropriate. It would be like calling up his doctor or something. I need to trust that his spiritual adviser, who I know to be a holy man, is being properly lead in his advice and isn’t in need of my opinion.

So I feel stuck. I don’t want to discuss the issue with the priest in the next parish because they are colleagues and I know that type of information is passed on a lot among the two of them. Talking to the bishop didn’t help, and I can’t write him again with the same complaint after I was able to speak to him directly about it already. I’ve considered trying to find a nun somewhere else who wouldn’t know any of them who I could write to for counsel. I don’t think nuns do that, though. Do they? How would I find out? As for confession, I go whenever I am on vacation. I don’t get regular advice, but it is the only way I feel secure in saying what is on my soul. That makes it harder on me, keeping everything inside. I don’t feel like I can trust anyone right now.
 
PS

I just got a letter back from the closest retrovaille leader. She said there is no childcare, reception of the sacraments like confession is not emphasized, and the point is to put the past behind and start over. She said I should just try it and if things are the same after then I’ll know that my husband doesn’t want to do his part.

I can’t do that. I don’t have the emotional well-being to do that right now. I’ve already been through those stages. We already know my husband doesn’t want to do his part. We need someone who will show him why he needs to, how he needs to, and what he needs to do. That includes dealing with the past, not forgetting it.

And what am I going to do with my son for an entire weekend? Everyone knows I’ve never left him for more than a few hours. Because of the family problems, his family can’t watch him without one of us present. Different story, no longer a problem, all are happy with the arrangement. I can’t tell anyone at church about it. I’m not opposed to leaving him for one weekend to focus on my marriage, but I don’t see how to manage it. Especially to put myself through the same routine again of treating us like it is no one’s fault and only a lack of communication.

My husband has a real problem he needs to address. He made a choice to not love me when he is called to make the opposite choice every single day. Why aren’t people willing to say that to him? I want him to go to individual counseling before we undertake joint counseling. Is this unreasonable? I think the Couples for Christ program looks better. They focus on the family as a unit so the kids are included. I think I’ll look into other ministries. If we’re going to be driving into town anyway, I could see what else is provided. Whatever it is, if we go to something, it needs to be something that will outline clear expectations for being a husband and a father and will show my husband in a positive way how to do it. I wish there were Catholic Promise Keepers. All the Catholic programs just want to sweep the past under the rug and say it isn’t anyone’s fault. You know what? Sometimes it is and sometimes people need to take personal responsibility for their poor decisions. You’d think with our understanding of confession, repentance, and working out our salvation it would be easy to find a Catholic program that uses this as a model. It seems only Protestants are willing to focus on this aspect of marriage.

The priest undermines my marriage and my attempts to save it, he justifies my husband’s actions because of his lack of objectivity and personal motives, the bishop turns a blind eye, and now the marriage lifeline program says I need to forget, forgive, and move on because it is no one’s fault. It is infuriating!
 
There is a Catholic Apostolate that deals with Catholics who have issues with their Priest/Bishop. I will search for the name, and email it to you.
 
You know, I must say, for a church that demands its members be open to life at all times, the number of times a person is faced with “no child care” is really offensive to me. Seems like speaking out of both sides of the mouth to me. We want you to have kids…but don’t expect us to help you with them when you REALLY need it!

I am opposed to child care during Masses for many reasons, but when it’s something like this, when a person needs ministry and cannot utilize it because it’s not an appropriate place for her child to be and no one is going to help her care for her child during that time…it’s the same as not offering her the help at all!
 
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