Is there hope for a dead marriage?

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Retrouvaille can only work when TWO people want it to work. I went. I can see it has value. But my ex didn’t want to go to the followups and when we were there I almost walked out because everything they said NOT to do in the communications, he did. Nothing was being accomplished. But at least I can look back and see that I tried EVERYTHING.

If your husband won’t talk to you at home, he won’t write to you in a hotel room. He won’t share his feelings there. And you can just expect that everything you share with him at the session will be food for his telephone conversations with his buddy from the bathroom on his cell phone.

Sorry to be a crepe hanger. I’ve seen bishops who hide their heads and try to avoid dealing with problem priests. They don’t seem to see that by not dealing with the problem, it grows until it explodes. And problem priests are seldom problems in only one area. Often the heretical ones or the ones with sexual issues also are helping themselves to parish funds and doing other things. If this priest is reinventing the Mass, he probably is too far gone. The fact your husband has moved out of the bedroom sends up real red flags to me.

I would call the other priest’s friend. Yes, telegram, telephone, television, tell-a-priest. Just don’t say anything you wouldn’t say with Fr. Buddy right in front of you.
 
Liberanosamalo said:
Retrouvaille can only work when TWO people want it to work. I went. I can see it has value. But my ex didn’t want to go to the followups and when we were there I almost walked out because everything they said NOT to do in the communications, he did. Nothing was being accomplished. But at least I can look back and see that I tried EVERYTHING.
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Just because Retrouvaille didn’t work for you, it doesn’t mean it won’t work for Mary. I’m really sorry it didn’t work for you, but for those who put their minds to it, it does work. Maybe, just maybe, Mary’s husband does want to fix this marriage but doesn’t know how. Maybe he’d give Retrouvaille a chance. You never know. My husband didn’t want to go because a priest would be present. My husband is VERY ANTI-CATHOLIC, and he went. Our post-sessions are inside a Catholic chapel, and he is a JW, which means that if the people in his religion found out he’s going to a Catholic Church, he’d be completely shunned.

Let me mention again, my husband did not want to go, did not want to communicate, didn’t want to fix anything because he didn’t think things could be fixed. The 2nd time we had to go to Retrouvaille (to the first post-session), we weren’t even going. He had decided it wasn’t for him, we had a huge argument, but out of nowhere he came back to tell me that he did want to, because he noticed this last argument wasn’t as bad as the previous ones.

All it takes is wanting to change. I’m sorry your husband didn’t want to work things out, but you shouldn’t ruin Retrouvaille for someone who has not even had the chance to try it. Your experience and your thoughts, I’m pretty sure are more than welcome, but I would like to ask you to please not ruin Retrouvaille’s reputation for Mary. She should make her own decision and if her husband would agree to it, than let them make their own decision.
 
I am not trying to ruin it for anyone. In other posts I have recommended it. I was stating that for it to work TWO people have to work at it. It isn’t like some counselling sessions like AA where they tell you if your spouse won’t go, to go alone. And in my experience, it won’t work if one person isn’t going to want to participate.

How she applies that particular warning to her particular situation is her choice. I just wanted to let her know my opinion based on my experience. I am glad your husband was eager to cooperate and work on it. It remains to be seen whether her husband is more like yours or more like my ex.

She was asking about it as an option. I gave her my opinion. No one is sorrier than I am that I can’t say it’s a cure-all for whatever ails any marriage.
 
Thank you both for your perspectives.

We’ve done the whole “This is how you communicate” song and dance before. We had other couples who had been there done that as well as a Catholic psychologist lead us in it. We did the whole write it down individually then go off together to talk about it, and this is how. I am an extrovert and am obviously comfortable with expressing myself. My husband is an introvert who no longer feels comfortable expressing himself to me. As others have noted, he has no problem with opening up to Father, so it isn’t that he’s incapable. It is that he is unwilling. As an introvert, he scores a zero on the introversion to extroversion scale, lack of communication does not bother him.

If I looked into and signed us up for a program as I’ve come to understand it, in our personal situation, my husband would shrug and mumble I dunno, and I would fall beyond despair. You are right that it would be right about when he excused himself for some necessary task and I found him hiding out talking to Father.

I don’t think it is for us right now. I think it would be great if my husband made the decision to want to fix our marriage. If he did that, we probably wouldn’t need it, though.

We need a program that isn’t so hands-off, discuss it together on your own. It relies on a personal sense of guilt or frustration and a desire to overcome it, which he doesn’t have. We need a program that doesn’t have involved group sharing, because he isn’t going to do that, and really I’m not either. We need a program that is designed to preach the word of the Lord and call for a conversion of hearts, then provide mentors to help do it. We need a revival with an altar call and a follow-up program after! 😛 We need something like Promise Keepers or That Man Is You. This will be a process of gradual awakening and we need something that will help to guide that in him. He needs a holy mentor who he can get to know and respect. Likewise, I need hope, I need support to not despair and not be bitter, and I need others to recognize that I’ve been hurt but that I can move beyond it with the proper healing.

I think I need to keep looking at options. In the mean time, I’m working on me. I’ve let this define my entire existence and have completely neglected my own dreams and goals outside of the marriage, concentrating all my efforts on him. I’ve started learning sign language, and I think I might sign up for a class in the Fall just because I’d enjoy it. I want to get back into writing. I want to paint my fingernails. I want to find good coffee from some place that doesn’t support Planned Parenthood. I want to read the Sigrid Undset trilogy. I want to make the curtains that I’ve had fabric to make for the last 2 years. There is so much that I can be doing that doesn’t depend on him, and I want to do it.
 
I do see overbearing parents, but I don’t see that he didn’t defy them in the beginning, anyways. I wonder if their shunning of you, which I’m assuming is still happening, is causing a great strain on him. Have you talked about that? Until he is willing to admit why he has shut you out you will never resolve it…it’s not your battle to fight. That being said–I will pray that your husband comes around…and that your marriage can be saved.
 
I think I need to keep looking at options. In the mean time, I’m working on me. I’ve let this define my entire existence and have completely neglected my own dreams and goals outside of the marriage, concentrating all my efforts on him. I’ve started learning sign language, and I think I might sign up for a class in the Fall just because I’d enjoy it. I want to get back into writing. I want to paint my fingernails. I want to find good coffee from some place that doesn’t support Planned Parenthood. I want to read the Sigrid Undset trilogy. I want to make the curtains that I’ve had fabric to make for the last 2 years. There is so much that I can be doing that doesn’t depend on him, and I want to do it.
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Good for you!!! 👍 Take care of YOU! And maybe just doing nothing and ignoring him and watching the priest situation implode on itself is enough. Anything that hot has to cool down eventually. The priest is not stable. And he may be due for a relocation soon. Change you. Sometimes that has an effect on others and how they see you and deal with you. Since you don’t seem to have any domestic violence issues to worry about here, you have time on your side.

You are right not to let his choices define you. I recommend you start a diary. Don’t show it to husband or let him know you have it. And in three months look back at it. Sometimes writing things down for yourself helps clarify it. Every three months analyze what the situation is. Sometimes that is enough to give you the perspective you need to make important choices.

Expand your circle of friends there. Get involved. Be your own best friend.
 
Whatevergirl,

His parents aren’t shunning us. They stopped actively trying to divide us. They have a more normal and healthy relationship now. His mom still tries to overstep her bounds at times, but she’s resigned herself to our being together. My husband is happy about that and likes his life and relationship with her much better now.

Thank you for the prayers. He’s now an hour and a half late coming home and no word from him.
 
My prayers are with you… I really like your idea of the Jesus Box 🙂
 
MissMaryMack said:
Whatevergirl,

His parents aren’t shunning us. They stopped actively trying to divide us. They have a more normal and healthy relationship now. His mom still tries to overstep her bounds at times, but she’s resigned herself to our being together. My husband is happy about that and likes his life and relationship with her much better now.

Thank you for the prayers. He’s now an hour and a half late coming home and no word from him.
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Hi missmarymack…I’m sorry for your pain. I will pm you …
 
I do think the looking out for yourself and taking care of your own needs is important.

I am going to throw something out here though that could be totally off base. When I read through this thread, I don’t see a lot of concretes. What I mostly see is that you are upset with him because he is not making you “feel” loved. Since he won’t (or can’t) communicate to you why he is doing this to you, making you feel like you are not a priority, you are upset that he is not communicating with you.

I’ve left an abusive marriage recently. Just about everything that you have said about your husband, my ex could say about me. Do you think that there is any chance that you might be excessively controlling? Do you think there is any chance that when you are upset with him for how you are feeling that you are saying very hurtful things to him? Perhaps he has gotten some support from his family and from your priest because of this. Maybe this is why the priest recommended he try to get you to go to Marriage Encounter.

I’m not saying that I think that is what is going on. Just, maybe it is another way of thinking about it. One thing that makes me think there is a chance that things could be like that is that he has a mother that is very controlling. Men with moms like that tend to marry women who are controlling since that is what they are used to. It doesn’t happen that way every time, but often enough that it is possible.

Maybe making a journal like Liberanosamalo suggested would be a good idea, as far as getting concrete information and a new perspective. I would still say give Marriage Encounter or Rterouvaille a try. Divorce is pretty terrible. I can’t see that there are grounds for even a separation here.
 
I mentioned your post to my husband. The reason - we went through several horrible years that were very much like what you are going through. Only there wasn’t a priest involved. There were others involved though. He was like a completely different person. And, he suggested we go our separate ways four times. I refused each time.

Any way, he said to tell you - Penance and Eucharist. For both of you. As often as possible. That’s how he got back to his good side. And, he had made a conscious choice and turned completely away from God so it’s even more of a miracle.

We’re a work in progress but there is progress - a lot of it and I’d say we’re happier together now than we’ve ever been. There will always be disagreements and minor issues because that’s just life. But, with God’s help, the really days are behind us (as is his evil twin as I called him).

God works miracles and answers prayers all the time, in His time and in His way.

We’ll be praying for you and your family

:gopray2:
 
Dulcissima,

Thank you for the thoughts. You are right that I haven’t given many concretes here. I tend to focus on the underlying cause because it is all so pervasive. Here are some examples.

Yesterday, a day he considers himself to have been “d*** near perfect”:
He slammed things around and took little jabs at me getting ready all morning. I asked him why and he acted like he didn’t know what I was talking about.

He decided to go out to eat with Father again and didn’t ask my (name removed by moderator)ut. He was mad that I was coming because it was an inconvenience for him to pick us up. He informed me that he and Father decided on the place. He knows that restaurant serves one food, fried catfish, which I haven’t eaten in 15 years. We just went there two weeks ago. He was mad that I didn’t get anything to eat other than a piece of pie. He was a real jerk in the car.

Since he was on a tight schedule, we were ready on time for him to pick us up to go. He was 30 minutes late. I asked him why he didn’t call in a polite tone with no malice. He was mad at me for asking.

While I was sitting there, neither of them said a word to me or looked at me. Even when I tried to enter the conversation, they changed the topic. At times, they totally ignored that I had said anything. At one point in time, I started to say something and Father got up and walked away like I didn’t exist. When he returned from looking at a picture, he asked my husband to relay the same story. My husband did so happily and didn’t even look at me. They even dropped their voices at one point in time while I was taking care of my son so that I couldn’t hear them without straining. What for? To talk about cell phone reception. WHY?

Every time I would walk near to him in the hall after church, he would walk away like he had never seen me. I asked him if there was something wrong because he seemed to be avoiding me. He mumbled no then wandered away again.

Father made a nasty joke at my expense and my husband laughed. First he pretended like he didn’t know what my problem was. He smirked in glee and played games with me saying “What? What?” He was actually laughing at my pain! He defended Father to me later. He said I was too uptight.

He couldn’t be bothered with taking care of our son all day. He was mad that I gave him our son to watch when I went to the bathroom. He was talking to Father on the phone and couldn’t be bothered.

When we arrived home, he finally said he was mad at me in the morning because his pants were dirty. The same pants he never put in the laundry. He said he was mad at me in the afternoon because I didn’t eat the catfish. He said he was mad at me in the evening because he was still mad at me from the morning and the afternoon. He agreed that it could have been avoided if he’d put his pants in the laundry, called to let me know he’d be late, chosen a different restaurant, not spoken so meanly to me throughout the day, and not laughed when Father offended me. Then he shrugged and went to bed with no intention of changing anything. Today he repeated many of the same things.

I use to be extremely happy and hopeful. I would encourage him and support him. I would tell him how wonderful he was and how proud of him I was when he did the slightest things. I kept the house clean and made sure to do my hair and makeup every day. I would go out to his favorite places with him and do his favorite things. I wasn’t clingy. I was his wife. That’s how our son came about. This is still how he would treat me. It isn’t who he use to be. I kept holding out hope. It is like a completely new man.

This comes after years of broken promises. Years of asking for one more chance. Years of never starting on anything he said he would. Years of insults. Years of undermining me. Years of passive-aggressive jabs. Years of blaming me for his behaviors one after another. He’s become an angry, bitter person who ignores me and takes delight in hurting me. He refuses to take responsibility for anything. But he says he wants to be with me and his number one goal is making me happy. Does it sound like that to you?

When we went to counseling with a Catholic psychologist years ago, she said the exact same things to him I had said. He got mad at me whenever the counselor said the same thing I had. He refused to continue going. He’s made plans and promises galore since then, of his own accord, about how he’s going to fix things. He never bothers to start, then he always blames me. Says he didn’t know what I wanted usually. When we pull out the numbered list of concrete things he said he’d do, and later that he had signed his name to, he says he forgot. Then he says he never agreed to it. He’s the one who wanted the list! In short, he has decided to not love me and justifies it however he can.

So tell me what that sounds like to you. It equates to misery for me.
 
Well, your very polite, restrained, and introspective reply to my post gives some good insight into your character, and your specific examples are pretty helpful at understanding your situation. In my marriage I had my husband get upset with me for the things that I would say that he would misinterpret and when I would explain to him what I really meant, he would brush that aside and remain angry due to his interpretation of my intentions. A lot of times what would make him angry didn’t really match up with reality. I have learned that I can’t be responsible for his feelings. I was concerned that you might be holding your husband responsible for yours, but with the examples that you have given, it looks like the opposite is true.

I do think it might be best for you to withdraw a little bit, take a break from having expectations for him to treat you in a certain way. I think instead of pouring your efforts into him, it would be a good idea as was previously suggested to pour your efforts into yourself. Concentrate on the things that you need to accomplish. Get out and develop your own network of support.

I’ve suggested this to others in rough marriages, don’t hold out hope on joint counseling if your spouse is not going to cooperate or be truthful. Start going to individual counseling. It will give you tremendous insight into what is really happening and will give you strategies for how you can address future problems. I do think keeping that journal and having very specific examples of the things that your husband says and does to you will help you out quite a lot in understanding what is really going on. I think that was a really good idea.

I said what I did about the controlling mother-in-law and men marrying similar women, because I have seen that happen so many times. However, that is not always the case. I know with my ex, he was always angry with me for not dealing with the kids in the abusive way that his mom would have dealt with it. He would actually be angry with me for not yelling about everything. So, I know it is totally possible that you are not the controlling type, and in fact it could be because you are not that he is angry with you. You never know. I do think individual counseling could give you some important insight in that regard.

So, thanks for being so cool-headed and really taking a look at what is going on. I’m sorry for suggesting that you might be controlling or the problem. It really doesn’t look that way to me now. You are really being strong and calm, and that is great. I’m praying that you will find the understanding to know what the right approach is for finnding healing for your family.
 
I just want to send you a cyber hug.

I want to give you a real one too, but these are the days. God bless you.

I am so sorry, my prayers are for some self-contentment as well as some peace.
 
Hope comes after faith. Keep working to strengthen your faith. Daily reception of Holy Communion is a great way. Also, Try to make a retreat and be able to discuss all that is happening with you and your husband . The retreat-master, who is usually a priest, will be able to help you to keep your feet on a sound foundation. For the sake of your son . this is a must, a sound foundation of faith.
Do not think of his mother ever trying to take your son away from you if there should be a separation. Contact a trusted attorney and learn your legal rights in that respect. I do believe that will boost your self-confidence.
And being a Deacon, myself, I had to have my wife’s agreement or OKAY, for me to be even considered for the Diaconate. If she refused, I could not enter the program. Check with your dioceses and see if this applies there.
Also, I would encourage you to make an appointment with the Bishop of your diocese and discuss the way your Priest advised your husband and give him the entire story. This is not proper for a priest and I base that on my many years of working with different priests. I admire your spirit in wanting to keep trying to be a good mother and wife. . That takes guts, under the circumstances. I will pray that you will continue and each time you go to Mass, make your offering to God . Try the 3 “P” method of talking to God. 1. Pray. 2. Perseverance. And the toughie…3. Patience.
Our Mother Mary is a great source of help in these cases. Use your Rosary every day and TRUST and BELIEVE> It will happen!!!
 
Pennymarie, KC, and Deacon Dad,

Thank you all for the support and advice.

Pennymarie, I am convinced that the sacrament of reconciliation is the gateway to our marriage’s renewal. My husband doesn’t have a sense of sin and even when he goes, which is rare, he comes up with one or two things that he thinks might kind of be a little sinful and that is it. I can’t comprehend it. I go as often as I am able, which is usually 3 or 4 times a year. I used to attend Mass every time it was offered, which was four days a week. Now it is extremely difficult for me to go once a week and face Father and listen to his homily and watch my husband with him afterwards. I am torn. I’ve even thought about moving to get away from this priest so that we could feel comfortable going to the church to receive the sacraments on a regular basis. It seems we’d have to move pretty far to find a priest who has no problem with calling people to holiness. That is really sad.

KC, thank you. I’ve been dealing with this all alone and not sharing it with anyone for so long. I don’t even know the word to describe the feeling that other people recognize that I am hurting and are willing to take the time to offer me support, advice, and prayers. Gratitude comes closest. Tonight has been a particularly bad night. I really feel like the Devil’s hand is at work. I have Psalms 141 and 142 memorized I pray them so often. King David had a way with words. Your own bring me peace. Thank you.

Deacon Dad, I am aware of the requirement for the wife’s support for the diaconate. I have broached it with him when he has talked about it before. I’ve encouraged him to pursue it and one of the steps he’ll need to take is getting his household in order. I don’t know what the two of them are thinking. I don’t think they’ve thought that far ahead. I don’t actually think Father expects him to become a deacon since he’s learned of our problems. I overheard him telling a new guy at church the exact same lines he feeds my husband and saying he doesn’t have anyone who wants to be a deacon. Five minutes later he was buttering my husband up with it. I think it is a ploy to manipulate my husband. I suggested that once and my husband was extremely offended. Like someone said above, I seriously wonder if Father will still be a priest by the time my husband could be ready. I don’t bring it up anymore. If he actually does anything about it, I know they’ll interview me then.

I don’t hold out hope that my marriage will be turned around through prayer. I don’t know of many saints whose lives became easier or happier after their conversion to faith. I do continue to pray for the sake of my husband’s, my son’s, and my own souls that we may all join them one day. That is the joy I have hope and faith in. It would make it a lot nicer of a journey to have my husband’s support I admit. I find direction and comfort in 1 Cor 7:13-17. Part of it says “for the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife.” I know St. Paul was referring to the unbaptized, but he later includes those who have all knowledge and all faith so as to move mountains but have not love, and he says they have nothing. I hold fast to the hope that my prayers will be heard and through my faith my husband will be saved on the Last Day.
 
I realize that I’m coming late here but to answer the question in the title of the thread…In a word, yes. St. Monica is proof that it’s never too late. I don’t think anyone mentioned and you might have already done this, but you might want to do a novena to St. Monica to intercede for your marriage.

You can’t change other people but sometimes other people change when we work on our own faults. I’m not saying you’re to blame but we all have some faults we could work on while we wait - at least I know I do. I realize that it’s very hard when you’d like to knock your husband in the head and tell him to wake up and snap out of it but sometimes the only thing you can do is to offer up these difficult times for the salvation or your family.

Sometime you might ask him why he felt called to marry you (without adding “in the first place” which would be soooo tempting to do). Just an honest question just to see what the response is. You said that he was a faithful man. He took some vows and picked his vocation. It would seem that he might not be following through with something here.🤷
 
dulcissima said:
I do think it might be best for you to withdraw a little bit, take a break from having expectations for him to treat you in a certain way. I think instead of pouring your efforts into him, it would be a good idea as was previously suggested to pour your efforts into yourself. Concentrate on the things that you need to accomplish. Get out and develop your own network of support.
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I was going to suggest this! It seems to me that since they take so much pleasure in hurting you you should try and not give them anything to work with. It may be that once they realize they don’t have a power over you it will stop.

You husband has a problem. You know this. Anyone who would get angry and hold onto it because you didn’t order something in a restaurant has a problem. You can’t expect anything from him right now, he is not capable of it and you can’t do anything to change him.

Forget about him being your knight in shining armor, there’s no such thing. When my husband and I were having similar difficulties I bemoaned my lost innocence, my lost ideas of love etc. This made things worse! He couldn’t deal with me needing him so much. So I put it all at the foot of the cross. I trusted God to bring my husband through this difficult time and I stopped trying to change him. I stopped criticizing him, I stopped making comments during movies etc. I focused my life on God, my children and myself. I became happier and eventually he came around. He realized he had a problem and started to deal with it. Then we went to Retrouvaille and it made a huge difference!

Ask special petitions from Mary for yourself. She had to suffer silently also. There was nothing she could do to change what her son was going through. She suffered from the whims of men. She trusted God and stood by the cross. Also, meditate on the scourging and the crowning with thorns. When He was mocked He “opened not His mouth”. You suffer as Christ did! Unite you sufferings to His and you will find the strength to bear them!

You are in the desert now, a time of testing, you have to figure out how to survive. Draw closer to God, He will not disappoint you the way men can.
 
Wisdom above speaks wise words!

For the second time in this thread, I’d strongly suggest getting your hands on the Matthew Kelly book “The Seven Levels of Intimacy”. Give it a read.

About the Deacon thing - call your Diocese and ask for information on the next Diaconate training. While a Priest must reccomend someone to the program, it is run by the Diocese, so, it is not like a Priest can just “pick” somebody to be a Deacon.
 
Kage_ar, Thank you. I must have missed the recommendation above. I previewed it on Amazon and it does look like a good book.

New Development. Need Advice.

We stayed up all night last night discussing. Most of the time was spent with my husband “thinking” about answers which means staring into space for thirty minutes then asking me what the question was again. I must give him credit that he didn’t do as usual and wander away to go to sleep. He stood in the doorway hour after hour refusing to go saying he wanted to make it right. So that is something. Around 6 AM he told me that he is willing to put us first and to do what he needs to to make our marriage work.

He’s not doing a very good job of showing it today. He asked me what he needed to do. It was the exact same tone and wording he’s always used. It translates as he doesn’t think he needs to do anything differently and doesn’t know what else there is he could possibly do, so he wants me to tell him what to do. Then he can go through the motions, which he never quite manages to do because he doesn’t want to, and then make me happy and we’re done with it and can move on. Then he resents me, doesn’t do it, and we’ve gotten no where.

I have the slightest opportunity to stop the cycle, but I don’t know what to do. Right after asking, he fell asleep again. When he wakes up, should I let it go and move on without him as I planned? Should I take the opportunity? If so, to do what? I’m torn. Any advice?
 
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