Is there hope for me even though I am not Roman Catholic?

[thomasf]

I believe it can happen that way under certain circumstances, the Lord alone will judge that, but what if your “death bed” is in a car that was blind sided on the freeway, doesn’t leave much time for repentence!

Exactly. This is what I mean when I say it’s a big gamble. Not something I want to take a chance with, eternal life and all.

 

[sodak]

I said that they ARE possible. Read the Catholic Register newspaper, because this is where I read it.

No you didn’t. You said that it was “not possible”. Big difference.

I’m not worried about what’s in the Catholic Register, I’m speaking from the Catechism, which, I’m sure you will agree, is a much more authoritative source.

 

[whatisthetruth]

Thank you all for your time and response to my concerns. This thread is getting interesting.

I am sure glad that even though we are of different religions, we are of the same God.

I want to apologize to you. I do not know how many share the same fear as MarcoPolo,

You sound awfully eager to view the Catholic Church as condemning you…is this a desire of sorts for you???

Marco Polo, No. I am sorry, by my questioning I am making it sound like the Roman Catholic church is condemning me as the person I am right now. I do not feel that from the Catholic Church or anyone in this community.

From conversations here, I applaud everyone who has opened up their hearts to me and welcomed me to your community.

There have been many of people I lost count of who told me that they would pray for me that I would return to the Roman Catholic Church where I spent the first 30 years of my life.

Evidence of the faithful, God bless each and everyone of you who have a caring heart.

But, and yes there is a but

My fear is if I do stay away from the Roman Catholic church right to my grave, then, is it your beleif, I am destined for hell with no chance of turning back.

I appreciate the resistance to judge me on this side of eternity.
I believe as you do that only God is the judge.

However, I wanted to let you know as to why I have been asking so many questions on salvation.

When I was Roman Catholic, I was taught that if you were not Roman Catholic there was no chance for you to go to heaven.
PERIOD

Call it as you may, that is was I was taught.
That is what I believed for the first 30 years of my life.
I do not believe that anymore.

I came here to seek if Roman Catholics really believed like I once did.

Apparently not at least as far as Steve is concerned. Thank you Steve,

Steve
The reasons **to be Catholic **as opposed to not being Catholic, have to do with **graces available to man through sacramental life **which help us to live in a Christlike manner, thereby enormously increasing the probability (when aligned with deep faith) (AMEN), that paradise is our reward.

BTW, I now believe that salvation can only be found through Jesus Christ.

No church, prayer, person or book can save a soul.

Even just believing Jesus does not save you.

I believe, believing*** in ***Jesus is evidence of the faithful and there is a big difference between believing and believing in Jesus Christ.

I believe, the resouces I listed, help in directing the “path” to salvation, but I believe the only way to be saved is first by faith in Jesus Christ and then act according to God’s word as evidence of that faith.

I am finding out that there are a lot of opinions on salvation as there are on this thread.

Then one day I got a message which I raised a “yellow flag”

In answering my question about salvation on one of the threads, I was given a link to search for answers at the following
geocities.com/Athens/Rhodes/3543/qsalus.htm

by Rev. Michael Muller, C.SS.R. who was one of the most widely read theologians of the nineteenth century

Take note of question, 36, 37, 38

What message do you get?

Rev. Michael Muller says, I can not be saved outside the Roman Catholic church.

My Christian brothers and sisters, Eternal lives are at stake.

I am not here to create controversy. I am here for an answer to one of the biggest misunderstandings we have as Catholics and non Catholics.

And so my question remains,

Friends, is the world of believers who know about the Roman Catholic church in one way or the other lost for eternity (will not be saved) if they should go to their grave away from the Roman Catholic Church?

Rev Michael Muller, in his Q & A says all will not be saved

Steve mentioned a possibility “when aligned with deep faith” (quoted from his statement above)

Whatis thetruth?

Thank you,

truth

 

[ralphinal]

It comes down to knowledge. If someone KNOWS that Jesus founded the Catholic Church and because of that fact we are called to be CAtholic, and that person abandons the faith, why should we think that there is hope for them? If you KNOW what Jesus expects of you and you do not do it, you are doomed.

But, what if you don;t know? Then it is different. What if you doubt? That is another issue to deal with.

I am not sure that you KNEW (fully understand) that you had to be Catholic. I am not sure that you beleive the Church or its teachings. I cannot say if you are going to heaven or not, because I am not a judge.

The Church does not teach that non-Catholics are in hell.

 

[jmcrae]

One day a Christian visits me in jail, talks to me about Jesus and leaves me a bible.

How do you respond to this? Do you listen with interest, or do you chase him away and call him a busybody? If you listen, how much of the message are you able to understand? (Remembering that you have no religious upbringing and very little contact with any form of Christianity - many of the words used by the evangelist will be unfamiliar to you - even the concept of “being saved” or “accepting Jesus into your heart” will seem completely alien to you.)

After he leaves, how much of the Bible do you actually read (that’s a lot to read in just one night, especially if you are extremely ill), and do you understand what you are reading?

Really, it is impossible to know what would happen with this hypothetical person. The one thing we know for sure is that he is in God’s hands, and God will not make him go either to Hell or to Heaven by accident. Either way, he will belong where he ends up to be.

I think it would be much more difficult for this person to go to Heaven, but nothing is impossible with God.

 

[HollyDolly]

Of course there is hope for you,even if you’re not a Catholic. No man,be they Pope or priest or ordinary layman knows who is saved and who is not.Jesus alone is the judge of our actions and life. There have been cases in the Catholic Church of people who were harden sinners who truly repented of their sins on their death bed.I have forgotten much of the stories about these death bed conversions.but who is to say that Jesus did not forgive them their sins and let them dwell with Him in heaven. Look at the good thief on the cross.Jesus forgave his sins .

Hopefully you will return back to the church some day.
However if you don’t remember that Jesus Our Saviour is all merciful and it is to Him we all must answer at the end ,not to anyone else.So don’t think you are lost.

 

[Righteousone]

Actually, what you said was not possible:

Just to be clear. I’m sure what you meant was not probable, but there’s a big difference and you can’t really blame Aquinas for misunderstanding you.

Blame Aquinas for misunderstanding??

 

[Righteousone]

No you didn’t. You said that it was “not possible”. Big difference.

I’m not worried about what’s in the Catholic Register, I’m speaking from the Catechism, which, I’m sure you will agree, is a much more authoritative source.

Reread my post from the beginning…geez…:doh2:

 

[whatisthetruth]

hi HollyDolly

Of course there is hope for you,even if you’re not a Catholic. No man,be they Pope or priest or ordinary layman knows who is saved and who is not.Jesus alone is the judge of our actions and life. There have been cases in the Catholic Church of people who were harden sinners who truly repented of their sins on their death bed.I have forgotten much of the stories about these death bed conversions.but who is to say that Jesus did not forgive them their sins and let them dwell with Him in heaven.

Look at the good thief on the cross.Jesus forgave his sins .

My point all along. Thank you

Hopefully you will return back to the church some day.

I am worshipping Him in church but it is not the Roman Catholic Church.

However if you don’t remember that Jesus Our Saviour is all merciful and it is to Him we all must answer at the end,not to anyone else.

Alleluia,

So don’t think you are lost.

I never said I was, However I have a feeling some may think I am.

At least if they read the Q & A from

geocities.com/Athens/Rhodes/3543/qsalus.htm

by Rev. Michael Muller, C.SS.R. who was one of the most widely read theologians of the nineteenth century

Take note of question, 36, 37, 38

Thanks

God bless you

truth

 

[sodak]

Death bed conversions are not possible because you will die as you lived your life. You cannot sin all your life and at the last minute repent. It doesn’t work like that. If you have confessed your sins to a priest during your life and were truly sorry, you have a better chance at God forgiving you at death.

There you go. I re-read it, and you are still wrong.

 

[De_Maria]

Thank you all for your answers,

Remember there is no tomorrow I am dying tonight

And no one answered the following,

Do you believe one can leave this earth knowing for sure of their own eternal destiny, with a promise from God just like the thief on the cross, should they die right now?

Bennie, you said yes but to what question?

thank you ,

truth

Yes, it falls under the heading of Special Revelation. If God reveals that you will go to heaven, then you will go to heaven. Jesus told the Good Thief He would see Him in Paradise. God’s Word is effective:

**CHAPTER XII
RASH PRESUMPTION OF PREDESTINATION IS TO BE AVOIDED
**No one, moreover, so long as he lives this mortal life, ought in regard to the sacred mystery of divine predestination, so far presume as to state with absolute certainty that he is among the number of the predestined,[74] as if it were true that the one justified either cannot sin any more, or, if he does sin, that he ought to promise himself an assured repentance.
For except by special revelation, it cannot be known whom God has chosen to Himself.
ewtn.com/library/councils/trent6.htm

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[Righteousone]

Yes, it falls under the heading of Special Revelation. If God reveals that you will go to heaven, then you will go to heaven. Jesus told the Good Thief He would see Him in Paradise. God’s Word is effective:

CHAPTER XII
RASH PRESUMPTION OF PREDESTINATION IS TO BE AVOIDED
No one, moreover, so long as he lives this mortal life, ought in regard to the sacred mystery of divine predestination, so far presume as to state with absolute certainty that he is among the number of the predestined,[74] as if it were true that the one justified either cannot sin any more, or, if he does sin, that he ought to promise himself an assured repentance.
For except by special revelation, it cannot be known whom God has chosen to Himself.
ewtn.com/library/councils/trent6.htm

Sincerely,

De Maria

But that only went toward the good thief and to no one else!

 

[De_Maria]

But that only went toward the good thief and to no one else!

Elijah
The Apostles
The Good Thief
St. Paul
And most of the Catholic Saints all had special revelations wherein God told them they would go to heaven. The fact that the Good Thief’s special revelation came at his deathbed makes no difference.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[Preacher_Vern]

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God(Romans 3:23) It does not matter what church or who you are, everyone falls under this verse. Here are few more that might help you as well Romans: 6:23, 3:10,11 5:12, 5:8 10:9,13, and if I can be any of help email me.

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

When I was Roman Catholic, I was taught that if you were not Roman Catholic there was no chance for you to go to heaven.
PERIOD

Call it as you may, that is was I was taught.
That is what I believed for the first 30 years of my life.
I do not believe that anymore.

I came here to seek if Roman Catholics really believed like I once did.

That’s your concern!? Yoinks!

My question to YOU is why you REALLY left the Church? I don’t believe that is was simply because you couldn’t accept that incorrectly communicated dogma!

What, other the being comfortable with and socially intertwined in your present denominational church community, keeps you from coming back to the place you know you should be which you left under false pretenses?

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

BTW, I now believe that salvation can only be found through Jesus Christ.

No church, prayer, person or book can save a soul.

Even just believing Jesus does not save you.

I believe, believing in Jesus is evidence of the faithful and there is a big difference between believing and believing in Jesus Christ.

I believe, the resouces I listed, help in directing the “path” to salvation, but I believe the only way to be saved is first by faith in Jesus Christ and then act according to God’s word as evidence of that faith.

WOW! That’s exactly what I believe too!

And you’re not in full communion with the Church WHY, again!?

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

And so my question remains,

Friends, is the world of believers who know about the Roman Catholic church in one way or the other lost for eternity (will not be saved) if they should go to their grave away from the Roman Catholic Church?

No. But the more one knows about the Church (Catholic) the less likely it is that they will choose heaven at their end if they don’t “repent and be reconciled” with the Body of Christ.

Rev Michael Muller, in his Q & A says all will not be saved

Is the Rev a Catholic? Why take an obvious enemy of the Church’s word as an honest answer to yur question?

He is an obvious enemy of the Church because he is stating falsehood as truth so as to harm the image of the Church. That, in itself, is a grave and mortal sin on his part, and one which does actually damn him if he perpetually holds it.

Steve mentioned a possibility “when aligned with deep faith” (quoted from his statement above)

Whatis thetruth?

Have all the hundreds of responses to your post answered your question yet such that you understand the way the Church sees this situation?

If not, then you will most likely be utterly damned, God forbid, as you are no longer ignorant and fully cuplable for your choices, should you choose to hold them in preference to God at your end.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Marco Polo, No. I am sorry, by my questioning I am making it sound like the Roman Catholic church is condemning me as the person I am right now. I do not feel that from the Catholic Church or anyone in this community.

Whew! I am glad of that. I know you did not have the best experience from Catholics in your younger day, nor did some of them represent Catholicism well to you. So I am glad that when I see you frequently asking if the Catholic Church condemns you, that it is not because of a victim-mentality. That is a temptation for many people. Carry on, friend!

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Quote:
Originally Posted by De Maria

CHAPTER XII
RASH PRESUMPTION OF PREDESTINATION IS TO BE AVOIDED
No one, moreover, so long as he lives this mortal life, ought in regard to the sacred mystery of divine predestination, so far presume as to state with absolute certainty that he is among the number of the predestined,[74] as if it were true that the one justified either cannot sin any more, or, if he does sin, that he ought to promise himself an assured repentance.
For except by special revelation, it cannot be known whom God has chosen to Himself.
ewtn.com/library/councils/trent6.htm

But that only went toward the good thief and to no one else!

Where does it say that that applies only to the good thief?

Let’s not be talkin’ out of our hats, now, ok!

The big problem with scenario, from the point of view of the “supposedly revealed to person” is that no private revelation is to be considered “true” unless it is confirmed by the Church’s teaching authority, so the person who THINKS he’s been guaranteed salvation can’t actually know that!

Now, if he’s a protestant, he can be (falsely) assured of his salvation by his private revelation, at which time as he dies he may VERY VERY well be in for a rather rude surprise.

But it’s STILL not impossible that he could in fact choose heaven as opposed to gripping his presumptuous sin like the lure into hell that it is.

 

[whatisthetruth]

Hi varc

Without sugarcoating it

I do not want you to…

I believe that you have answered your own question. According to the catholic religion and your previous statemen(I am going to my grave a non Roman Catholic) then **you will most certaintly be damned no matter what you do **or whatever other truth you may believe.

Thank you for being so bold and blunt. I appreciate it.

**You are the first to post openly ** that I am damned to HELL

if I do not return to the Roman Catholic church.

You have the same belief I had for the first 30 years of my life as a Roman Catholic about non Roman Catholics having a chance of being saved .

You just comfirmed what Rev. Michael Muller, C.SS.R
answered in his Q & A website,
geocities.com/Athens/Rhodes/3543/qsalus.htm

question, 36, 37, 38

The fact that you are here and are quoting the CCC proves(at least to me) that **you are not some ignorant bushman **who is oblivious to civilization outsise his jungle.

Well thank you I appreciate that

I hope you’re not offended by the answer.

Not at all, I sincerely hope you are not offended by the answers I am about to give you.

No matter what religion you are lots of people think you’re going to hell because you’re not a catholic so why do you care?

And at the same time there are a lot of people who believe I still can be saved from hell and have eternity in heaven if I do not ever return to the Roman Catholic church.

Some believe it will be a more difficult path for me to follow, but at least they believe I have a chance.

Steve in #26 believes I have a chance to be saved if I do not come back to the RCC.

The reasons to be Catholic as opposed to not being Catholic, have to do with graces available to man through sacramental life which help us to live in a Christlike manner, thereby enormously increasing the probability (when aligned with deep faith) (AMEN