Is there hope for me even though I am not Roman Catholic?

[jmcrae]

I believe He has made a decision and pomise so you can know by faith.

No - with regard to particular individuals (those still walking the earth), God has not yet made any decision. it would be very presumtuous of us to predict in advance what God will say.

There are two Judgements: the first is the Particular Judgement which occurs at the moment of death, where God tells you His decision regarding your life. Nobody can know what God will decide about them until that moment.

Then, there is the Judgement of the Nations, where God will make His judgements public, when all sin and all good works will be revealed publicly; this will be at the moment of the Resurrection. The damned will be resurrected to physical damnation, and the saved will be resurrected to physical bliss in Heaven.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Roman Catholics question the answer I provide

What is the Roman Catholic.s answer to ease Thomas’s and fragile’s fear?

Thomas’ fear should not BE eased if he is not doing ALL he should be doing to attain heaven!

If he is “privately reconciled” with God, and truly commited to being “publically reconciled” with God (via a priest), and he meets his end between the two, then he can be as assured as is possible that heaven awaits him.

The protestant, who refuses to commit to God’s due, which is “public reconciliation”, refuses a direct command on God.

We can certainly THINK that we are 100% assured of heaven, but who is more likely to achieve it: He who knows in humility that he will never have that absolute assurance of salvation and commits to do ALL that God tells him, or he who assumes in massive hubris that he has 100% assurance of salvation and says to God that he will only do the “minimally sufficient” parts of God’s commands?

Once again Whatis, by overvaluing “comfort”, such as the comfort of having 100% assurance of salvation, which requires “running the race to the end” and can’t be known (and therefore have any assurance of) UNTIL the end, you put the idol of “comfort” between you and God, and call it “God”.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

What do you believe will happen to a person, should they lead a very faithful , graceful life and one day they fell to sin and before they had a chance to go to confession… BAM car accident, instant death.

We have answered you about this how many times now?

Private reconciliation is sufficient if “public” reconciliation is commited to but unattainable.

Private reconciliation is NOT sufficient if “public” reconciliation is NOT commited to.

Why should I come back to the Roman Catholic faith if you can not give me a firm answer you all can agree on in that scenario?

We all **DO **agree on that.

Please, if there is ANYONE who disagrees with my understanding above, PLEASE give us the reasons for doing so, and make it LOUD so that we can hammer out this difficulty and inform Whatis so theat he can get over his little hangup!

Thanks all!

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

CalmDownWisWins, iamACE PM me…I will give you the answer you seek.

Quote:
#42 CalmDownWisWins
What does “accepting Jesus Christ as personal savior and Lord” mean?

Is it so “personal” that there is no help from anyone but “internal revelation from the Holy Spirit HImself” as to what it means?

NO.

Why would you hold out on your valuable insights into a question from the rest of the kind and very generous people here who are trying to help you!?

Please answer my question in public, or be considered VERY uncharitable in your concern for your “feelings”, as apparently you would rather not have things you have to say publically aired, over others edification!

So, answer my questions! Or not. And prove yourself yet another “typical protestant coward”.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

The bottom line is no matter how we receive Jesus, in the process of communion, we are taking in Jesus in our heart and not our stomach. Do you believe that is all that matters to God.

We ARE receiving the actual flesh and blood of Jesus into our BODY (the “stomach” usage is unecessarily vulgar), as well as into our hearts, and as long as one knows the truth of what God has commanded us, both “receivings” are REQUIRED unless one or the other (I’m just covering my “logical bases”) are not possible.

All that matters to God is that we do what He says to do, and what He says to do is to do BOTH if possible.

If the answer to that question is no, then might the way we receive communion determiine our salvation???

My answer was a “No” only if you know the truth and don’t do it.

Do you know the truth, and not do it, or don’t you know the truth, and do what is “sufficient”?

 

[sodak]

We all **DO **agree on that.

Please, if there is ANYONE who disagrees with my understanding above, PLEASE give us the reasons for doing so, and make it LOUD so that we can hammer out this difficulty and inform Whatis so theat he can get over his little hangup!

Thanks all!

Agreed. WhatIs, it seems that you have still some issues/residual concerns or something. Why don’t you, in all fairness, call your diocese and ask to speak to a Priest in these matters. They often have some with very specific training in these areas, and can be of enormous assistance. It won’t cost you anything but a little of your time.

This afternoon, I went to confession and Saturday evening Mass. You cannot imagine how wonderful it is to hear a Priest give you absolution and then share our Lord in the Eucharist. Talk about a personal relationship!!! The peace and joy can be more than a little overwhelming, in a very good and sacred way.

You can have the same peace for yourself, make the call. The Church (and God) is waiting.

 

[whatisthetruth]

Hi Sodak,

Agreed. WhatIs, it seems that you have still some issues/residual concerns or something.

If you want to call it that, their is one concern I have and I am glad you spelled it out below

Why don’t you, in all fairness, call your diocese and ask to speak to a Priest in these matters. They often have some with very specific training in these areas, and can be of enormous assistance. It won’t cost you anything but a little of your time.

Thank you. However, I have many voices in this community. You people have been great in answering my questions.

You are what true christianity is all about…showing Jesus love to your brother in Christ and opening your arms to welcome me to your church and offer advice to help me

And quite frankly, Is it so so so wrong for a Christian brother to want and return the favor

I am serious
I hear you when you say,.

This afternoon, I went to confession and Saturday evening Mass. **You cannot imagine how wonderful it is **to hear a Priest give you absolution and then share our Lord in the Eucharist.

I can’t imagine how wonderful it is?? Remember, I was Roman Catholic too

Talk about a personal relationship!!! The peace and joy can be more than a little overwhelming, in a very good and sacred way.

I 100% agree with you. I know it can. I been thier. I am thier. I do have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I know the feeling of having my sins forgiven by the grace of God and then celbrating and remembering and worshippping at communion all what Jesus has done for us.

Yes it it wonderful, to say the least.

I hear in my heart the joy of that moment you experience, thank you for sharing.

In due respect, above all that joy, and I am struggling on how to say this,

You can not share with me how awesome of feeling it is to know if you were to die right there in the midst of that joy, after confession, after the celebration of the Eucharist, that you are 100% assured you will go to heaven.
My heart bleeds for you.
More importantly,
I believe God’s heart bleeds for you.
After all, He promised eternal life to His faithful which I have not one ounce of doubt you are.

That my friend, in addition to all the joy you and I experience,
is it so wrong for a Christian brother to want you to experience also the joy and I have in accepting God’s promise?

If you do not believe me, I believe in all due respect, you are not believing God’s word.That is teatiment on How much I believe in what I am saying. I respect God too much if there was one ounce of doubt in my mind and heart.

Why do you believe God said the following?

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John3:16

 

[whatisthetruth]

whatistruth? Are you going through the death penalty?

No, what would make you ask that ??

And what if I was??

Just curious

 

[fbl9]

hi whatis… so because one trusts Jesus’s words that he will judge justly and not unfairly means they are not believing God’s word. i have told you before one can not say who is to go to heaven and who is not. You saying you are assured you will go to heaven is the same thing as saying i(yourself) will go to heaven.

 

[whatisthetruth]

Thanks for the discussion whatisthetruth! I didn’t check out the Q & A by Rev. Muller only because there really isn’t a need when answering whether someone who isn’t Roman Catholic can be saved. An earlier poster gave the quote from the Catechism on the subject. That is official Church teaching. If Rev. Muller, regardless of how respected a theologian he may be, says otherwise, he is incorrect and not speaking for the Church. Hopefully that clears that question up.

Thank you, there have been** Catholics here who told me I was doomed to hell**…So there is confusion even amongst Roman Catholics

And I certainly don’t think any less of you for having 100% faith that if you die right now you will go to heaven.** But why do you put in the restriction **that you can only talk about right now and not tomorrow, next week, or a year from now?

If I sin tomorrow and that sin goes unconfessed and I die, Hell is my destiny

I think you’ve said that you believe salvation can be lost.

I believe that. I would not be so bold as to be God and say “once saved always saved.”

Is that correct (and if so, how?)

answered above, If I sin tomorrow and that sin goes unconfessed and forgiven and I die, Hell is my destiny. As I go to bed tonight and sleep. If I die in my sleep, My faith in God and God’s word promised me eternal life…I will wake up in eternity in :heaven:

Most protestants I have discussed with, at least in regards to the 100% issue believe that 100% assurance extends for their entire life, regardless of how they live it. I wouldn’t make that declaration about myself or anyone else because, like I’ve said, only God knows what we are going to do with our gift of faith.

I agree 100%, A total misunderstanding on what salvation is.
Look how I responded to jmcrae in this thread

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3181711&postcount=106

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3182396&postcount=107

And part of the gift of faith is God’s gift of salvation, when accepted with a faithful heart according to God’s word.

I don’t consider you arrogant either.

Well thank you. That means a lot
I just teared, God bless you my friend

I personally think that God would like us show others how to reach heaven, rather than celebrate our already being there. Do you know what I mean?

I believe I know what you mean, I am afraid that people do not know what I mean .

May I encourage you to look at the two posts I linked above.
I detailed to jmcrae where I am coming from.
I invite you to let me know you viewed the posts and i welcome your feedback. PM me if you like

First off, I would wonder what I was doing at the altar. In that situation, I really think I would have 100% faith that I would soon be rejoicing in heaven. But why do we have to examine salvation in terms of these special cases?

I posted in someone elses thread when I first came onboard. All we did was spin wheels. The accident scene I created, even though I was hesitant at first, at least isolates the core of our belief.

Not only should we not judge one another, like you said, but Paul here warns against judging ourselves before the due time, even with a clear conscience. You are absolutely right, we aren’t innocent and we are forgiven by the Blood of Jesus Christ. And the Bible says we should hope for salvation. I will hope for salvation on earth and I will declare it in heaven. That doesn’t mean I can’t declare and share the wonderful gift of faith God has given me, or the gift of His Son and the gift of the Cross, and the gift of salvation. I don’t deny for a second that salvation is an unmeritted gift from God.** I also won’t deny that I am capable of turning my back on that gift.**

Neither will I deny it. that is why I said above, “If I sin tomorrow and that sin goes unconfessed and I die, Hell is my destiny”

But, by faith, when I go to bed tonight, I will repent and confess to God, Thank Jesus for dying for my sin, Thank God for his wonderful gift of salvation, even though I am not worthy to receive His tremendous gift and if I should die in my sleep, God’s word which I accepted by faith according to his word promised me eternity in :heaven:

Forgive me for saying this, but, I remember as a Catholic at communion saying
“Lord I am not worthy to receive you, but only to say the word and I shall be healed”

God

Truth

continued…

 

[fbl9]

hi whatis… Lord i am not worthy to recieve you:humble one 's self,remeber the tax collecter praying in the temple;say the word and i shall be healed:trusting in the Lord remember the roman soldier.

 

[whatisthetruth]

continued…

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Eph 2:8-9

 

[whatisthetruth]

hi whatis… Lord i am not worthy to recieve you:humble one 's self,remeber the tax collecter praying in the temple;say the word and i shall be healed:trusting in the Lord remember the roman soldier.

Hi fb

Tell me your thoughts so I can commment

Thank you

 

[whatisthetruth]

hi whatis… so because one trusts Jesus’s words that he will judge justly and not unfairly means they are not believing God’s word. i have told you before one can not say who is to go to heaven and who is not. You saying you are assured you will go to heaven is the same thing as saying i(yourself) will go to heaven.

I can not tell you if you are going and I would not want you telling me if I am going that is correct but…

God Gave you His Word you can know of your own salvation

Look how I responded to jmcrae in this threads

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost…&postcount=106

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost…&postcount=107

Blessings

 

[Kolbe300]

If I sin tomorrow and that sin goes unconfessed and I die, Hell is my destiny

I believe that. I would not be so bold as to be God and say “once saved always saved.”

I’m glad you are not that bold! Our beliefs with regards to salvation are much more similar than they are different. But, and certainly meaning no offense, you come across as a Protestant with some very Catholic-like beliefs. I would venture to say you are a minority among your Protestant brothers and sisters.

But, by faith, when I go to bed tonight, I will repent and confess to God, Thank Jesus for dying for my sin, Thank God for his wonderful gift of salvation, even though I am not worthy to receive His tremendous gift and if I should die in my sleep, God’s word which I accepted by faith according to his word promised me eternity in

Again, I see nothing wrong with you going to sleep with that confidence. I do the same thing. I just choose to call my confidence faith and hope, rather than 100% knowledge. I can have faith and hope that I won’t stub my toe tomorrow, but I can’t have 100% knowledge that I won’t. By the way, I bolded a part of your quote up there because of what you said right after:

Forgive me for saying this, but, I remember as a Catholic at communion saying
“Lord I am not worthy to receive you, but only to say the word and I shall be healed”

You go to bed saying you are not worthy of the gift. It’s true. I go to receive the Eucharist, which is the very gift of Jesus Christ, saying the exact same thing. And it’s true. See what I mean? There’s no difference.

Wow thank you for your words. I honestly believe we are so close.

We are so close. I watched the entire message from the Paul Washer link you provided. It was titled a “shocking” message, and I will admit to being shocked by it. Not because of the message, but because the message was coming from a Protestant. That was by far the most Catholic preaching I’ve ever heard from a Protestant. The message of not being of this world and living your faith (not because you should but because you must) has been taught by the Catholic Church for 2000 years. No Catholic who knows their faith would have been shocked by his message at ALL. The Church has always taught it and the Bible has always taught it.

I thank God that some Protestants are receiving that message because I have always said the “once saved always saved” idea is not only false, but terribly dangerous. I could see from comments to his preaching that his message is not being received with open arms among many Protestants.

The link also saddened me because I can see just how close he (and you, if you believe what he preaches) are to the fullness of Christian truth. You are missing out on the Sacraments which provide so much grace and help in mainting the walk on that “narrow path.” I mean no disrespect when I say that I hope and pray you may find your way back to the Sacraments and back to the Church that has always taught the “shocking” message you seem to have embraced.

I do not look at it as

The Roman Catholics
vs.
the other 30,000 plus denominations

I do not look at it like that either. But I will never give up on Christ’s prayer in John 17 that we, as his children, will be one in all things as He and God are one in all things. The comments to Paul Washer’s message are a perfect example of why the unity is so needed. So many Protestants are left wondering who is right. Is Paul Washer right or is a different pastor right? Pastor Washer admits to the Baptist doctrine radically changing and now he is trying to radically change it back. God gave us a Church so we would never have to wonder who was right. And that Church’s doctrine will never radically change, as it hasn’t for 2000 years.

whatisthetruth, you said that you truly believe there is a reason you are here. I can only say that I absolutely agree with you.

God bless you and thanks for the link.

 

[sodak]

Hi Sodak,

Whatis,

I know what the promises of the Gospel are. I understand wanting to be assured. It drives me closer to the Church that Jesus founded, and want to stay under it’s wing that much more.

I’ll take the word of the Magesterium over a youtube video. I think that evangelical attempts to draw people away from the Church of Christ is the work of the devil to pull us into heresy.

I hope you reconsider.

 

[mercygate]

Thomas’ fear should not BE eased if he is not doing ALL he should be doing to attain heaven!

If he is “privately reconciled” with God, and truly commited to being “publically reconciled” with God (via a priest), and he meets his end between the two, then he can be as assured as is possible that heaven awaits him.

The protestant, who refuses to commit to God’s due, which is “public reconciliation”, refuses a direct command on God.

We can certainly THINK that we are 100% assured of heaven, but who is more likely to achieve it: He who knows in humility that he will never have that absolute assurance of salvation and commits to do ALL that God tells him, or he who assumes in massive hubris that he has 100% assurance of salvation and says to God that he will only do the “minimally sufficient” parts of God’s commands?

Once again Whatis, by overvaluing “comfort”, such as the comfort of having 100% assurance of salvation, which requires “running the race to the end” and can’t be known (and therefore have any assurance of) UNTIL the end, you put the idol of “comfort” between you and God, and call it “God”.

Well said. I stand in confusion at the basic assumption that the opposite of absolute assurance of salvation MUST BE insecurity, doubt, and fear.

Where is the trust and faith in that?

Catholics (and many other reasonable Christians) understand that WE are finite; our knowledge is finite, and so any knowledge we have is imperfect. We can and do have reasonable assurance of salvation. We certainly have faith in the blood of the cross, but de fide knowledge of our own individual personal fate is in no way promised by the chain of scriptures usually presented in these discussions. The “you” in those scriptural texts is always in the plural, not the singular: Paul’s letters are addressed to the churches. It is in and with the Body of Christ – in His Church that one has “knowledge” of salvation.

 

[Philthy]

… I stand in confusion at the basic assumption that the opposite of absolute assurance of salvation MUST BE insecurity, doubt, and fear.
Where is the trust and faith in that?
Catholics (and many other reasonable Christians) understand that WE are finite; our knowledge is finite, and so any knowledge we have is imperfect.

That is to say that despite laying claim to “knowing” something, that “knowledge” does not make it an actual reality due to our limited capacity for determining absolute truth. For our OP this means that the reality of your actually being saved is INDEPENDENT of your claim to “knowing” it. This is because your “knowledge” is based on your self - with limited intellect - and upon your understanding of Scripture - with the same limited intellect - and upon your perception of your spiritual state with regard to unconfessed sin - again limited - by your fallen nature. Apart from divine personal revelation, infallible knowledge of God’s judgement remains known to God alone.

mercygate:

We can and do have reasonable assurance of salvation. We certainly have faith in the blood of the cross, but de fide knowledge of our own individual personal fate is in no way promised by the chain of scriptures usually presented in these discussions. The “you” in those scriptural texts is always in the plural, not the singular: Paul’s letters are addressed to the churches. It is in and with the Body of Christ – in His Church that one has “knowledge” of salvation.

And with respect to the repeated appeals of the OP to John 3:16, I must add that even in your translation the words “SHOULD NOT PERISH” are used rather than “CAN NOT PERISH” and as such the degree of assurance which you repeatedly appeal to simply is not supported by John 3:16.

 

[FCEGM]

Well said. I stand in confusion at the basic assumption that the opposite of absolute assurance of salvation MUST BE insecurity, doubt, and fear.

Where is the trust and faith in that? . .

Precisely, mercygate. Faith isn’t a gift to believe in one’s personal salvation; it is a gift to believe in the Savior. We then live in hope of being so transformed by Him in and through fidelity to charity in the communion of His Church so as to live with Him forever, participating in the Divine Charity of the Most Holy Trinity.

 

[whatisthetruth]

Hi CalmDownWisWins

I apologize I did not get to you, I am sorry if you felt I was ignoring you. But my plate is full. Not just with answering forum messages but with personal and family time too.

Please forgive me.

Here are answers to a lot of your posts. If I do not address a specific concern, please PM me so I do not miss it , thank you

I said
29

what do you believe would happen to you while you are on your road of “perfecting yourself so that you will be deemed worthy by God to enter heaven” you died right now instantly
…cardiac arrest?

Are you “absolutely assured” !00% sure you will go to heaven?

yes_____ no_____

I have no need to know what it **is not my business **to know.Therefore, No, I have no absolute assurance of heaven, and it would be the height of impertinence for me to assume that I am worthy of that information.

your eternal destiny is not a concern to you??

I said

Here lies the difference between our beliefs.
I can answer that question with a definite yes.
If you can not,
I am asking why not?

Once again: To answer that question with a YES is to “presumptuously test God”

I do not believe it is testing God , For God promised salvation as a gift.

The consequences of being assured of that which can’t be assured is a less likelyhood of being granted the thing thought assured.

I agree IF it can not be assured

30
When can Roman catholics experience absolute assurance on this side of eternity?

Catholics have no need of assurance of heaven before either receiving it or not.

Wow, Do you asume you will go to Heaven?
You aren’t worried if you will wind up in hell??

I am sorry but that is the way you come across.

please help me understand

by Namesake 31
Oh come on now. You make this way too difficult. Protestants believe that by accepting Jesus Christ as personal Savior and Lord, and repenting of sin, life eternal is assured, through Christ. It’s that simple. Don’t make it so difficult.

We have our eye on our pilgrim journey, not on finding a “magic rope” which, when we fall on our path, at our death, will “yank” us into Jerusalem.

I am sorry you see salvation as a magic rope…I sure do not

suggest consultation with a priest, but what are the chances of that?

No chance at all…but thank you for the offer there were good intentions behind that and I appreciate it

Being perfect before dying is not the goal.

I absolutely agree, But wouldnt it be nice to say the least if you should die on your journey on achiving your goal you die, Then what?

Being on the path to perfection before dying is the goal.

Maybe for you.
The Goal for me is to be a loving witness of my Lord and saviour Jesus Christ, as to impact the lost souls of this world and let them see how God’s love has changed my life.

While on the path we can’t know any more than that the path we’re on either goes toward perfection or not, and when we fall, in death, it is up to God ALONE to decide whether we’re on the right path in the right way such that He will help us to continue toward perfections end.

respect what you believe to be true, I respectfully do not believe that…

32
Catholics believe that “being saved” is a singular event.

Once one is saved, or not, the event is over and is irreproducible and irrevocable.

Please explain

ralphinal, so when you said,

Quote:
I am not worried about my salvation
To me, it can only mean one of three things (I invite you to add the fourth if it applies to you)

Your statement “I am not worried about my salvation” could mean that,

A) You are “absolute assured”, 100% sure you will spend eternity in heaven if you were to die right now.
Praise God If this is the case
—or
B) You are not “absolute assured”, 100% sure you will spend eternity in heaven. But because of “____________” you are not worried about spending eternity in heaven f you were to die right now. (basically God is a good God and He will let you into heaven)
—or
C) You are not “absolute assured” you will spend eternity in heaven should you die right now, (and since God is a good God, He will let you into heaven)
—or
D) Something I did not mention

The answer is “D”.

you said
The answer is “D”.

We ARE worried about our salvation, but NOT about having ASSURANCE of our salvation, because it’s not our business to know!

You are worried about possessing ASSURANCE, not about salvation!

I am sorry you believe that

We can live with what God has told us we are to live with, which is being perpetually UNSURE while alive of any assurance of our destiny.

In other words, the bridge may be out down the road you are on, but do not tell you until you get there, and If you do not see the missing piece of road in time, you a goner. you however hope you see the missing road in time,
Is that what you are saying?

cont…