Is there life in outer space?

[jimmy]

The Privileged Planet folks make some really good points. (Their documentary is really cool, too.)

Conditions for life, and especially higher life, are many in number and require precise fine tuning. Given the estimated size of the universe, the chances of the right conditions for life on another planet is so infinitesimal as to be practically impossible.

I disagree with this logic, whether you start from an atheistic or religious perspective. Generally the argument you make is directed toward atheists who assert that it was all chance that humans evolved. From a Christian perspective, it was God who created us, so chance had nothing to do with the fact that we have favorable conditions to support life. God created the world, so the conditions were purposeful. Why couldn’t God do the same with another planet?

If you approach it from a strictly mathematical and scientific perspective, there is no reason to assume another planet didn’t happen to have suitable conditions by chance. There are billions or possibly trillions of other planets out there. It seems likely that one of them has favorable conditions.

 

[Nimzovik]

Fascinating all this really. We fanatically discuss ad nauseum and scan the skies in search for extraterrestrials when people are presently producing hard, tangible evidence there are flying discs actually abducting large numbers of people and implanting them. (see above links I posted.)

Go figure.

Another note. Scientists find a rock that they believe came from Mars in the Polar regions of earth due some process of cosmic collision, see traces of ‘perhaps microbial existence’ and scream “We have found proof of Life on other planets!”

And yet they can not find life in the womb of a woman in the ninth month of pregnancy.

Go figure again.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

jimmy
**
If you approach it from a strictly mathematical and scientific perspective, there is no reason to assume another planet didn’t happen to have suitable conditions by chance. There are billions or possibly trillions of other planets out there. It seems likely that one of them has favorable conditions. **

If among these trillions of planets you find some that have life, some of them may be limited to microbial life. Others may be limited to plant life. Others may be limited to life in the sea. Others may have life evolved to the land. As you go up the scale of evolution, the chances of more and more complex life forms existing decreases because there are so many conditions that are required for the evolutionary process to go on and be successful at reaching higher and higher stages of development. So it’s entirely possible that only one planet in the entire universe consists of creatures who were made to possess immortal souls.

We may be them. There is no way to prove it or to prove otherwise.

 

[Rete]

I think if life emerges naturally in the universe, then our first contact will be with machines. Furthermore, there could exist within our system artifacts of such machines already. Here is why:

The zero-one law comes into play when the numbers of probabilistic events become very large (practically infinite). This generally happens when time or space become incredibly large. In this case, if there exists a nonzero probability that life will naturally emerge in any given star system, then there must exist places where life emerged elsewhere.

Additionally, if there exists a nonzero probability that sapient species will evolve, then this must have happened somewhere.

Lastly, if it is possible to build self-replicating, intelligent machines, and there exists a nonzero probability that any given intelligent civilization will survive long enough to produce them, then they exist.

Once they exist, they spread everywhere. The time it takes for them to spread across a galaxy is actually pretty short, relative to the age of the universe.

I doubt they would care much about us, but I think there is a good chance they not only exist but have artifacts in our system in various places. It all hinges upon these probabilities:

(a) probability that life emerges in any given star system
(b) probability that intelligent life evolves in any given biosphere
(c) probability that machine intelligence is possible and feasible
(d) probability that a civilization is able to build such machines before going extinct

The probabilities I don’t feel comfortable assuming are (a) and (b). I don’t really know. Life is still rather mysterious, and until somebody figures out how to create life from scratch, I have to admit the possibility that these two are actually zero. (c) I am rather convinced is 1.0. It’s perfectly possible and maybe a few centuries away given current rate of technological progress. (d) is also debatable, but I really don’t think we are likely to go extinct in the next few centuries, so I have to assume that probability is nonzero.

So if (a) and (b) are at all nonzero, I would set the probability of machine intelligence already present in our solar system quite high. Not quite 1.0, but higher than their not being here.

Because we are dealing with so much time and space, all we need to show is that at least one such civilization was likely to have emerged in the past and built these machines. It would not take very long at all for those machines to proliferate.

 

[Nimzovik]

**Rete wrote: **

**"**I think if life emerges naturally in the universe, then our first contact will be with machines. Furthermore, there could exist within our system artifacts of such machines already…"

Nimzovik responds:

With the advent of the wave of all the mechanical intra human implants, in conjunction with upcoming neural processors, artificial limbs, etc. etc. etc, what is to stop humans from ‘evolving’ into a ‘race’ of machines? Certainly it will not be Ethics of any sort that will inhibit such, as it is an inductively strong argument that Humans make rather poor moral choices as evidenced by the abortion issue…

Hmmmmmm… Perhaps the tale of Darth Vader was a pre- cognitive prophecy of the collective human psyche- eh? Indeed. We even **sing **about it! see here: youtube.com/watch?v=1FgSmdfRUus

Perhaps the machines exploring galaxies of which you speak Rete, will be…cough cough …ahem… us.

Scientists. Ya just gotta love em - eh?

Er…No… Perhaps not. Certainly not the likes of Oppenheimer…

Lord save us from ourselves… Please!!

 

[Aloysium]

we are in outer space; so yes there is life in outer space

i believe we are here, not because of some statistical (im)probability,
but because God created us
He may have created life similar to ours elsewhere, or not

the distances are so great that if there is life,
it is intended to develop on its own, or not

 

[jimmy]

jimmy

**If you approach it from a strictly mathematical and scientific perspective, there is no reason to assume another planet didn’t happen to have suitable conditions by chance. There are billions or possibly trillions of other planets out there. It seems likely that one of them has favorable conditions. **

If among these trillions of planets you find some that have life, some of them may be limited to microbial life. Others may be limited to plant life. Others may be limited to life in the sea. Others may have life evolved to the land. As you go up the scale of evolution, the chances of more and more complex life forms existing decreases because there are so many conditions that are required for the evolutionary process to go on and be successful at reaching higher and higher stages of development. So it’s entirely possible that only one planet in the entire universe consists of creatures who were made to possess immortal souls.

We may be them. There is no way to prove it or to prove otherwise.

I agree, you can’t prove one way or the other. Life on this planet is what we know of life, and we can’t say much about the possibility of life on other planets.

 

[jimmy]

**Rete wrote: **

**"**I think if life emerges naturally in the universe, then our first contact will be with machines. Furthermore, there could exist within our system artifacts of such machines already…"

Nimzovik responds:

Speaking in the third person now, huh? Well Jimmy can do that too. Jimmy questions the veracity of ufo sightings. Jimmy doubts that aliens from a foriegn planet can reach earth. It seems unlikely to Jimmy.

 

[devoutchristian]

Speaking in the third person now, huh? Well Jimmy can do that too. Jimmy questions the veracity of ufo sightings. Jimmy doubts that aliens from a foriegn planet can reach earth. It seems unlikely to Jimmy.

I agree. As I like to say “beware of assorted nuts”.

 

[matt1985]

I read today that there are caves on mars supposedly, so when we send people up in 2023 we will hopefully see if we can find a microb at least. I think that it would be interesting to see if their are fossils burried deep in mars. Perhaps a bomb should be detonated on the surface to blast through more layers than a robot could. The robots only seem to be able to literally scratch the surface on mars.

 

[Nimzovik]

Speaking in the third person now, huh? Well Jimmy can do that too. Jimmy questions the veracity of ufo sightings. Jimmy doubts that aliens from a foriegn planet can reach earth. It seems unlikely to Jimmy.

Hey. Ya gots endless video and photographs examined by professionals. Ya gots the actual physical, material implants as I linked above, ya gots altered ground areas of landing sites of UFO’s, ya gots people dying from unknown causes and medical documentation of such after contact with UFO’s, ya gots an abundance of eyewitness testimony (you know, witness testimony? Thats the stuff that they make Laws from?) from Presidents, War generals, airline pilots, police, general run of the mill down to earth people and Astronauts.Ya gots Radar hits, ya governments such as France, Britain, Beligium and Mexico releasing formerly classified documents on the subjects. Ya gots Russa as well. Ya gots Polls that indicate at least 50 % of the population accept UFO’s.

On the other side of the scale ya gots Jimmy.

What can I say?



I guess your interpretation of the Scientific Method is to just dismiss data with extreme prejudice. Hmmmmmm… I guess some folks just gotta do what they feel they need to do.

Ok. I have already stated earlier I no longer concern myself with those that do not accept such. I accept that. Nor do I refer to those that contend differently as ‘mixed nuts.’ I am confident in my assessment of presented observation on this topic to the degree that I do not have to be demeaning to the opposition.

**My **concern is what do we do about them. This is the question I ask of the readership that has already taken the next step.

But hey! You got to do what is right for you… I guess…

I for one opt out of participating in the discussion with those of your perspective. I just move on.

Nuff said.

 

[jimmy]

Hey. Ya y classified documents on the subjects. Ya gots Russa as well. Ya gots Polls that indicate at least 50 % of the population accept UFO’s.

On

Ok. I have already stated earlier I no longer concern myself with those that do not accept such. I accept that. Nor do I refer to those that contend differently as ‘mixed nuts.’ I am confident in my assessment of presented observation on this topic to the degree that I do not have to be demeaning to the opposition.

**My **concern is what do we do about them. This is the question I ask of the readership that has already taken the next step.

…,

I for one opt out of participating in the discussion with those of your perspective. I just move on.

Nuff said.

You’re a funny one nimzovik. Jimmy guess’s if you refuse to speak with those who think you are wrong, then atleast in your own mind you will always be right. It is funny that you reference the scientific method, and then refuse to discuss with someone with a different perspective than yourself. You’ve made jimmy laugh.

 

[GEddie]

I’ll worry about aliens when I see them.

My guess is that “life” as a chemical process leading to self-organizing-and-growing organisms, could exist in many, many forms other than our water-oxygen bodies or ecology, many of which we will never see, because they are incompatible with our world, even if they managed to grow bodies with cognitive minds capable of space travel.

The number of planets is indeed great, but the cubic mileage of space is greater still. It is extremely unlikely that minded bodies have evolved to our level or beyond, near enough to us that we would hear their radio signals.

And even if we did hear them, we couldn’t tell such a signal from noise.

IMNAAHO, we should save the wear on our neurons from conjecture about aliens and use them instead to work off our Purgatory.

ICXC NIKA.

I read today that there are caves on mars supposedly, so when we send people up in 2023 we will hopefully see if we can find a microb at least. I think that it would be interesting to see if their are fossils burried deep in mars. Perhaps a bomb should be detonated on the surface to blast through more layers than a robot could. The robots only seem to be able to literally scratch the surface on mars.

Nobody’s going to Mars in 2023.

The ship would take that long to build and hasn’t begun.

And it couldn’t land without crashing in flames.

ICXC NIKA

 

[GEddie]

Oops, hit the wrong button again (double quote)

 

[agnes_therese]

Nobody’s going to Mars in 2023.

The ship would take that long to build and hasn’t begun.

And it couldn’t land without crashing in flames.

ICXC NIKA

Why couldn’t it land?

 

[GEddie]

Why couldn’t it land?

Has to do with the Martian atmosphere.

Too thin to use wings or parachutes; too thick to use retrorockets of the force that would be needed.

There was a NASA report on this some months ago.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Nimzovik]

You’re a funny one nimzovik. Jimmy guess’s if you refuse to speak with those who think you are wrong, then atleast in your own mind you will always be right. It is funny that you reference the scientific method, and then refuse to discuss with someone with a different perspective than yourself. You’ve made jimmy laugh.

Ok…

We done now?

 

[jimmy]

Ok…

We done now?

We were done as soon as you were right.

 

[agnes_therese]

Has to do with the Martian atmosphere.

Too thin to use wings or parachutes; too thick to use retrorockets of the force that would be needed.

There was a NASA report on this some months ago.

ICXC NIKA

Thanks, I didn’t know that.

 

[3DOCTORS]

Has to do with the Martian atmosphere.

Too thin to use wings or parachutes; too thick to use retrorockets of the force that would be needed.

There was a NASA report on this some months ago.

ICXC NIKA

Now there’s a challenge for some bright young engineer just beginning her or his career!