Is there ogling in heaven?

[Bubba_Switzler]

I wonder, is there ogling in heaven?

Or, to put it another way, when does appreciation of physical beauty cross the line to sinful lust?

 

[juliasmith]

seriously?

 

[coolduude]

seriously?

for real!

But to answer the question, I would guess not.

I say this because you are with God, who IS love. There is no need to ogle.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

But to answer the question, I would guess not. I say this because you are with God, who IS love. There is no need to ogle.

But you are not just with God, you are with the entire community of humanity in resurrected bodily form.

Is heavenly existence all centered on God alone? I doubt that.

 

[teachccd]

But you are not just with God, you are with the entire community of humanity in resurrected bodily form.

Is heavenly existence all centered on God alone? I doubt that.

HMMM… To a child the chocolate bar would seem to be the ultimate pleasure. You can see children with chocolate all over their faces as they indulge in life’s greatest pleasure. Then they grow up and discover that there is a greater pleasure in the gift of their sexuality. Would a husband stop in the middle of the marital embrace and say,“Wait honey, I could really enjoy a chocolate bar right now”? That would be highly unlikely since there is a greater pleasure at hand. When we are in the beatific vision we will experience the ultimate pleasure. Heaven will be infinite happiness and we can no longer appreciate a lesser pleasure since being in the presence of God is our longing.

No one really knows for sure what heaven will be like but I find it highly unlikely that our earthly pleasures will compete with being in total union with God…Who knows?? teachccd

 

[LilyM]

But you are not just with God, you are with the entire community of humanity in resurrected bodily form.

Is heavenly existence all centered on God alone? I doubt that.

Of course it is! There is no greater good or greater joy than God, everything else utterly pales in comparison. It’s like the chooclate bar example the previous poster raised.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

Would a husband stop in the middle of the marital embrace and say,“Wait honey, I could really enjoy a chocolate bar right now”?

On the other hand, I don’t know any married couples who give up all pre-marital pursuits (other than dating, perhaps). I still enjoy chocolate from time to time.

No one really knows for sure what heaven will be like but I find it highly unlikely that our earthly pleasures will compete with being in total union with God…Who knows??

Of course it is! There is no greater good or greater joy than God, everything else utterly pales in comparison. It’s like the chooclate bar example the previous poster raised.

So what leads you to believe that heaven consists of a total focus on God as opposed to a communion of saints with relations among them?

 

[lovemysix]

Good Heavens! I sure hope not. It’s bad enough being ogled here on earth

 

[Marocchino]

I’m not sure what you mean by ogling, but if it’s something sexual:

Jesus said to them, “Are you not misled because you do not know the scriptures or the power of God? When they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but they are like the angels in heaven” (Mark 12:24-25).

If this answer does not satisfy your curiousity, read Catholic philosopher Peter Kreeft’s “Is there Sex in Heaven?”: peterkreeft.com/topics/sex-in-heaven.htm

 

[TLM08]

I wonder, is there ogling in heaven?

Or, to put it another way, when does appreciation of physical beauty cross the line to sinful lust?

Wow… I asked the exact same question earlier today… In a different circumstance! Check out my earlier post!

 

[Beautiful]

I wonder, is there ogling in heaven?

Or, to put it another way, when does appreciation of physical beauty cross the line to sinful lust?

You actually have two very different questions here.

Is there ogling in heaven? To ogle means to eye something amorously. Or it could mean to eye something greedily. Anyway - I imagine that in heaven we will eye God and all the beauty surrounding us with the eyes of our hearts. The feeling will be similar to the good ecstasy we have had a taste of here in this life. There can be no sin such as lust in heaven. All of our appreciation for beauty will be just that - appreciation and love of beauty.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

I’m not sure what you mean by ogling, but if it’s something sexual:]

This verse doesn’t really answer the question but merely begs the next: do angels relate to one another and, if so, how? To say that there is no marriage is not to say that saints do not say hello to one another.

If this answer does not satisfy your curiousity, read Catholic philosopher Peter Kreeft’s “Is there Sex in Heaven?”: peterkreeft.com/topics/sex-in-heaven.htm

I skimmed it quickly and it is very interesting and relevant but not entirely satisfying. If there is sex in heaven, as the article argues, then certainly there must be non-sexual intercourse in heaven.

It seem to me that there are now two questions:

1. Is there intercourse (in the non-sexual sense) between saints, and
2. What is the nature of that intercourse.

One fact that must be kept in view: resurrection is bodily, albeit a more perfect body, so the idea that earthly pleasures are missing in heaven seems improbable. In fact, there are many verses that describe heaven in terms of earthly experiences.

I’m willing to bet that there are chocolate bars in heaven.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

Wow… I asked the exact same question earlier today… In a different circumstance! Check out my earlier post!

Yes, we seem to have been wondering the same thing.

 

[LilyM]

This verse doesn’t really answer the question but merely begs the next: do angels relate to one another and, if so, how? To say that there is no marriage is not to say that saints do not say hello to one another.

I skimmed it quickly and it is very interesting and relevant but not entirely satisfying. If there is sex in heaven, as the article argues, then certainly there must be non-sexual intercourse in heaven.

It seem to me that there are now two questions:

1. Is there intercourse (in the non-sexual sense) between saints, and
2. What is the nature of that intercourse.

One fact that must be kept in view: resurrection is bodily, albeit a more perfect body, so the idea that earthly pleasures are missing in heaven seems improbable. In fact, there are many verses that describe heaven in terms of earthly experiences.

I’m willing to bet that there are chocolate bars in heaven.

Of course there is intercourse in heaven. We will all be parts of the Body of Christ, so we will have the same sort of intercourse that parts of a human body have with each other. All directed by the head, all directed towards what the head wants or needs those body parts to do.

A foot doesn’t think to itself ‘I want to walk today’, neither does the eye of itself tell the hand to move in order to catch a ball. Rather the eye communicates to the brain that it sees a ball coming, the BRAIN decides it wants to catch that ball and then tells the hand where to go to catch it. Or maybe the brain decides it doesn’t want to catch it and tells the hand not to do anything.

Neither hand nor eye have even a thought of their own, merely a neutral perception.

Chocolate bars? You canNOT be serious.

1 Cor 2:9 “But as it is written, Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God has prepared for them that love him.”

In other words - if you can physically see it or hear it or it can rationally enter into your heart, it ain’t in heaven, the things we see and hear and think about on earth are pretty much cr*p compared to what awaits us in heaven. A reflection in a dark glass of the joys that God will provide us.

Why would you look at a reflection of, say, your wife, in a dark (distorting and fuzzy) glass when you can turn around and see the reality in all its splendour?

Heaven is above and beyond. We will have bodies, but they will be glorified bodies such as even the Apostles didn’t see after Christ’s resurrection - infinitely more glorified.

Remember too Jesus said ‘He who comes to me shall not hunger’ and so on. In heaven we won’t hunger for food, not for sex or physical beauty, not for anything else other than Him. To say otherwise is to suggest that He in and of Himself (and seeing Him ‘as He really is’ and knowing Him as we have been known) is insufficient to satisfy our every need and desire.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

Of course there is intercourse in heaven. We will all be parts of the Body of Christ, so we will have the same sort of intercourse that parts of a human body have with each other. All directed by the head, all directed towards what the head wants or needs those body parts to do.

That’s a very peculiar metaphor because body parts don’t desire anything. Indeed, they are expendable (see e.g. Matthew 18:8). Not exactly a model of love.

1 Cor 2:9 “But as it is written, Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God has prepared for them that love him.”

In other words - if you can physically see it or hear it or it can rationally enter into your heart, it ain’t in heaven, the things we see and hear and think about on earth are pretty much cr*p compared to what awaits us in heaven. A reflection in a dark glass of the joys that God will provide us.

Yes, but this does not say that there are no chocolate bars in heaven but, rather, that they are perfect chocolate bars (more taste, less filling perhaps?).

What would be the point of a ressurection of the body otherwise?

Heaven is above and beyond. We will have bodies, but they will be glorified bodies such as even the Apostles didn’t see after Christ’s resurrection - infinitely more glorified.

Which would suggest, to me, that my wife will be even more beautiful in heaven.

Remember too Jesus said ‘He who comes to me shall not hunger’ and so on. In heaven we won’t hunger for food, not for sex or physical beauty, not for anything else other than Him. To say otherwise is to suggest that He in and of Himself (and seeing Him ‘as He really is’ and knowing Him as we have been known) is insufficient to satisfy our every need and desire.

I think this is the crux of the matter. I could say, for example, that if you go to the grocery store you will not hunger. That does not mean that you do not need to eat the things in the store to avoid hunger. It means, rather, that the store provides a bounty of things to satisfy your desires.

More importantly, perhaps, is the distinction between hunger and desire. Do you believe that there is no desire in heaven?

 

[LilyM]

That’s a very peculiar metaphor because body parts don’t desire anything. Indeed, they are expendable (see e.g. Matthew 18:8). Not exactly a model of love.

Not at all - the head can’t catch that ball without the eye and the hand, or walk without the foot. So we’re not expendable, but our interests and desires (should we have any) are totally subordinate to His.

Yes, but this does not say that there are no chocolate bars in heaven but, rather, that they are perfect chocolate bars (more taste, less filling perhaps?).

If that’s your idea of perfection then it’s a very sad and limited idea indeed. What happened to ‘eye has not seen’? Heaven is NOT ‘just like earth but shinier/crunchier/newer’. It’s been argued that it’s not even a physical place, since a physical place can’t possibly be eternal.

What would be the point of a ressurection of the body otherwise?

Then why do angels have no bodies at all if bodies are necesary to fully enjoy heaven? Or if heaven consists even partly in fulfilling the sort of bodily desires you’re discussing?

Bodies aren’t necessary, but our bodies ARE, like our souls, created in the image and likeness of God and an integral part of the human person. They are valuable in and of themselves for this reason, not just for the things they do or perceive.

But the desires of a GLORIFIED body are NOT the same desires as those of an ordinary human body - how could they possibly be? What need had Jesus, once risen and immortal, of rest, for example?

Which would suggest, to me, that my wife will be even more beautiful in heaven.

There will be no marrying nor giving in marriage in heaven. So your wife won’t mean the same to you as she does on earth, certainly.

And all glorified bodies in heaven, being perfect, must also be perfectly attractive, and not just your wife’s.

I think this is the crux of the matter. I could say, for example, that if you go to the grocery store you will not hunger. That does not mean that you do not need to eat the things in the store to avoid hunger. It means, rather, that the store provides a bounty of things to satisfy your desires.

Again, you’re suggesting that God in and of Himself isn’t enough to fulfill our every need and desire. How can God possibly not be sufficient in and of Himself for us? He IS all good.

Our human desires (food, sex, etc) aren’t ends or goods in themselves. They are all pale imitations of the things that we REALLY desire (fullness of God’s grace and the Holy Spirit, perfect communion with Him and so on) and will receive in Heaven.

That’s why St Catherine of Siena could live on just the Eucharist alone - having Jesus, the bread from heaven, she needed no earthly food.

More importantly, perhaps, is the distinction between hunger and desire. Do you believe that there is no desire in heaven?

Knowing God, we will know that He and His presence alone fulfills all desires, including those desires that we try to fulfill (and only imperfectly succeed) with lesser goods - food, sex and so on. We won’t desire anything but Him and His presence.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

Heaven is NOT ‘just like earth but shinier/crunchier/newer’. It’s been argued that it’s not even a physical place, since a physical place can’t possibly be eternal.

Argued by who? Why can’t a perfected physical place be eternal?

Then why do angels have no bodies at all if bodies are necesary to fully enjoy heaven? Or if heaven consists even partly in fulfilling the sort of bodily desires you’re discussing?

Do angels not have bodies? In any case, it is pretty well established that we will have bodies in heaven.

Bodies aren’t necessary, but our bodies ARE, like our souls, created in the image and likeness of God and an integral part of the human person.

On that score, see Genesis 3:8.

But the desires of a GLORIFIED body are NOT the same desires as those of an ordinary human body - how could they possibly be?

Why would we assume they were not? What sense would it be to say that we will not hunger in heaven if all that is meant is that we will not desire food? See Matthew 22:2, for one example among many.

And all glorified bodies in heaven, being perfect, must also be perfectly attractive, and not just your wife’s.

That sounds like I’ll be ogling a lot in heaven, then.

Again, you’re suggesting that God in and of Himself isn’t enough to fulfill our every need and desire. How can God possibly not be sufficient in and of Himself for us? He IS all good.

Your viewpoint on heaven (“He and His presence alone fulfills all desires”) reminds me of an old joke:

A religious man is on top of a roof during a great flood. A man comes by in a boat and says “get in, get in!” The religous man replies, " no I have faith in God, he will grant me a miracle."

Later the water is up to his waist and another boat comes by and the guy tells him to get in again. He responds that he has faith in god and god will give him a miracle. With the water at about chest high, another boat comes to rescue him, but he turns down the offer again cause “God will grant him a miracle.”

With the water at chin high, a helicopter throws down a ladder and they tell him to get in, mumbling with the water in his mouth, he again turns down the request for help for the faith of God. He arrives at the gates of heaven with broken faith and says to Peter, I thought God would grand me a miracle and I have been let down." St. Peter chuckles and responds, “I don’t know what you’re complaining about, we sent you three boats and a helicopter.”

 

[wcknight]

My guess is that we will be much more likely to control our appetites in Heaven. We will probably not have the same uncontrollable desires and whims that we have now.

The problem we have on earth is with control. Our instincts to be attracted to the opposite sex are tied to our natural deaires to reproduce and sustain the species.

IF unchecked, our imaginations run wild and we ‘oogle every skirt’ that passes by. My guess is that our control will be much better and we will be ‘tempted’ far less or not at all in Heaven. I would think that sin is non-existant in Heaven, so I would also think that tempation is also either non-existant or our control so strong that it would be impossible to sin.

 

[PaulinVA]

I have to say, that if I’m in the presence of the one true living God, I don’t really care what you look like.

 

[saieditor]

I wonder, is there ogling in heaven?

Or, to put it another way, when does appreciation of physical beauty cross the line to sinful lust?

No.

You’ll find out one day, won’t you?