Is there salvation outside the Catholic church?

[wisdomseeker]

First paragraph from that article:

“Pope Benedict XVI has reasserted the universal primacy of the Roman Catholic Church, approving a document released Tuesday that says Orthodox churches were defective and that other Christian denominations were not true churches.”

What is the importance of that primacy if the following is also true? In other words- how can the necessity of the Church be stressed when Biblical faith isn’t even necessary for salvation?

“Whoever seeks peace and the good of the community with a pure conscience, and keeps alive the desire for the transcendent, will be saved even if he lacks biblical faith, says Benedict XVI.”
zenit.org/article-14695?l=english

I think we have 2 different things in here.

affirminh the papacy means to affirm the True Church. for we know many are trying to do away with it.

2nd is about salvation. as we know when Jesus died He went under to rescue those who did not entered into the ark of Noah and died in flood. so i think the same can apply here.

:byzsoc:

 

[Danno2281]

I think we have 2 different things in here.

affirminh the papacy means to affirm the True Church. for we know many are trying to do away with it.

2nd is about salvation. as we know when Jesus died He went under to rescue those who did not entered into the ark of Noah and died in flood. so i think the same can apply here.

:byzsoc:

“As we know”? So all who peished in the flood with whom God was so displeased are now saved. And just how do we know this?

 

[wisdomseeker]

“As we know”? So all who peished in the flood with whom God was so displeased are now saved. And just how do we know this?

i think St Peter tells us about this. i have to look it up.
is this your question?

:byzsoc:

 

[c659smith]

“As we know”? So all who peished in the flood with whom God was so displeased are now saved. And just how do we know this?

I doubt very highly many of those people are saved but I am not the judge. I would not profess either pro or con.

 

[Mom_of_5]

I cannot believe that my wonderful protestant relatives will not be saved because they do not accept the teachings of the CC. I can believe that some RC that I know may have a tougher time getting to the Kingdom of Heaven because of their arrogance. This is just a silly question to begin with. Didn’t Jesus tell us that we are going to be surprised at who will be in heaven and…who will not?

Love and prayers
Mom of 5

 

[c659smith]

I cannot believe that my wonderful protestant relatives will not be saved because they do not accept the teachings of the CC. I can believe that some RC that I know may have a tougher time getting to the Kingdom of Heaven because of their arrogance. This is just a silly question to begin with. Didn’t Jesus tell us that we are going to be surprised at who will be in heaven and…who will not?

Love and prayers
Mom of 5

Where did Jesus say that?

 

[ron77nyc]

I cannot believe that my wonderful protestant relatives will not be saved because they do not accept the teachings of the CC. I can believe that some RC that I know may have a tougher time getting to the Kingdom of Heaven because of their arrogance. This is just a silly question to begin with. Didn’t Jesus tell us that we are going to be surprised at who will be in heaven and…who will not?

Love and prayers
Mom of 5

Amen to that. Who does God save? Anyone He wants to.

Romans 9:15 For he says to Moses: “I will show mercy to whom I will, I will take pity on whom I will.”

 

[napad]

Yes but you do not know if he died in a state of Grace now do you?

For while John Kennedy may have had some failings He probably had much success Spiritually.

Remember He was given absolution before his death and may have repented for his sins, and failing before his death.

Do not judge unless one wants to be judged.

So I know you are not judging but you are stating exactly what I am we do not know anyones Spiritual state at the time of our death.

If you read my post carefully/] you will notice the Kennedy EXAMPLE was to show that those we think are great guys may not be. Not to condemn him. BTW he did receive last rites

 

[Danno2281]

i think St Peter tells us about this. i have to look it up.
is this your question?

:byzsoc:

The passage in 1Pet:3,19-20 is obscure with variant readings in both the Lain and Greek. (for example, and the number of the verb ‘awaited’ expectabat, expectabant**]and the subject are questionable), and ar differently rendered in the Fathers, both Latin and Greek. A good case can be made for your point, though.

 

[c659smith]

Amen to that. Who does God save? Anyone He wants to.

Romans 9:15 For he says to Moses: “I will show mercy to whom I will, I will take pity on whom I will.”

yes but lets not live by the old law Jesus made all things new.

 

[Danno2281]

I cannot believe that my wonderful protestant relatives will not be saved because they do not accept the teachings of the CC. I can believe that some RC that I know may have a tougher time getting to the Kingdom of Heaven because of their arrogance. This is just a silly question to begin with. Didn’t Jesus tell us that we are going to be surprised at who will be in heaven and…who will not?

Love and prayers
Mom of 5

Jesus said very pointedly “Who hears you hears Me, who rejects you rejects Me, who rejects Me rejects Him Who sent Me”(Lk 10,16). He said nothing about being ‘wonderful’.

 

[c659smith]

If you read my post carefully/] you will notice the Kennedy EXAMPLE was to show that those we think are great guys may not be. Not to condemn him. BTW he did receive last rites

I said that (absolution) and by the way today it is called annoiting of the sick

 

[wisdomseeker]

Jesus said very pointedly “Who hears you hears Me, who rejects you rejects Me, who rejects Me rejects Him Who sent Me”(Lk 10,16). He said nothing about being ‘wonderful’.

yes. i would also say that no one should be making excuse why one should not be in the CC because they keep believing that the Church does not matter. this is a big misconception by many. the Church is a big deal. the True Church is a big deal. Jesus made this very clear. one should not wait until the end to find out. eternity should not be gambled.

the lack of belief is indecredible. the Church still evangelize today as it was yesterday. i am sure Jesus cannot be pleased by the lack of belief by so many.

i would be very concerned by not listen to the Church just because one does not believe. just because they think they have the Bible they are saved. where is that in the Bible? that one is saved because he reads the Bible.

but it is very clear when it comes to listen to the Church.

:byzsoc:

 

[napad]

I said that (absolution) and by the way today it is called annoiting of the sick

whatever clipartof.com/images/emoticons/xsmall2/2210_whatever.gif

 

[napad]

I cannot believe that my wonderful protestant relatives will not be saved because they do not accept the teachings of the CC. I can believe that some RC that I know may have a tougher time getting to the Kingdom of Heaven because of their arrogance. This is just a silly question to begin with. Didn’t Jesus tell us that we are going to be surprised at who will be in heaven and…who will not?

Love and prayers
Mom of 5

You answered your own question because it will be surprise, if your Protestant relatives are not in heaven because nobody thought it was worth the time to evangelize them or invite them to be Catholic.
** Catholic Bishop George Hay of Scotland [1729-1811], **
2. Our Savior, after instructing us to admonish our offending brother in private, or before a few witnesses, concludes thus: “And if he will not hear them, tell the Church. And if he will not hear the Church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.” [Matt. 18: 17]. The heathens are those who know not the true God, and who worship idols, and the very devils themselves, instead of God. The publicans were a class of people among the Jews odious for their crimes, and looked upon by all as abandoned by God, and given over to a reprobate sense. With these, then, all who obstinately resist the
voice of the Church are classed and condemned by the mouth of Jesus Christ Himself.catholictradition.org/Classics/salvation-text.htm

 

[DLC]

John 14:5-6
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.
NASU

No church saves. Christ is the only one who save the believing sinner John 3:16.

 

[Danno2281]

John 14:5-6
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.
NASU

No church saves. Christ is the only one who save the believing sinner John 3:16.

The Church IS Christ

 

[Mom_of_5]

You answered your own question because it will be surprise, if your Protestant relatives are not in heaven because nobody thought it was worth the time to evangelize them or invite them to be Catholic.
**Catholic Bishop George Hay of Scotland [1729-1811], **
2. Our Savior, after instructing us to admonish our offending brother in private, or before a few witnesses, concludes thus: “And if he will not hear them, tell the Church. And if he will not hear the Church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.” [Matt. 18: 17]. The heathens are those who know not the true God, and who worship idols, and the very devils themselves, instead of God. The publicans were a class of people among the Jews odious for their crimes, and looked upon by all as abandoned by God, and given over to a reprobate sense. With these, then, all who obstinately resist the
voice of the Church are classed and condemned by the mouth of Jesus Christ Himself.catholictradition.org/Classics/salvation-text.htm

The best way to evangelize is by actions, not words. Living the best Catholic life I can, show good example is much stronger than to preach and argue. Our priest gave a sermon talking about salvation. He said that Jesus said we will be surprised at who will and who will not be in heaven. I do not know the exact quote, or where it is in the bible. I shall look for it. I believe that arrogant RC who look at non-Catholics as “not-saved” should maybe be more concerned than the good non-Catholic next door. I was taught (in the Catholic school) that those who are not Catholic but truly believe in their non-Catholic religion, and they live a Christ-like life (YES, non-Catholics can and do live good, christian lives) then, they can be saved.

My prayers for all, no matter what religious faith,

Mom of 5

 

[ron77nyc]

Our priest gave a sermon talking about salvation. He said that Jesus said we will be surprised at who will and who will not be in heaven. I do not know the exact quote, or where it is in the bible.
Mom of 5

Here are 4 passages supporting what you say.

**Luke 18:9 **And to some who trusted in themselves as just, and despised others, he spoke also this parable: 10 Two men went up into the temple to pray: the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. 11 The Pharisee standing, prayed thus with himself: O God, I give thee thanks that I am not as the rest of men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, as also is this publican. 12 I fast twice in a week: I give tithes of all that I possess. 13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not so much as lift up his eyes towards heaven; but struck his breast, saying: O god, be merciful to me a sinner. 14 I say to you, this man went down into his house justified rather that the other: because every one that exalteth himself, shall be humbled: and he that humbleth himself, shall be exalted.

**Acts 15:11 **But by the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, we believe to be saved, in like manner as they also.

Titus 3:4 But when the goodness and kindness of God our Savior appeared: 5 Not by the works of justice, which we have done, but according to his mercy, he saved us, by the laver of regeneration, and renovation of the Holy Ghost; 6 Whom he hath poured forth upon us abundantly, through Jesus Christ our Savior:

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

 

[Mom_of_5]

Here are 4 passages supporting what you say.

**Luke 18:9 **And to some who trusted in themselves as just, and despised others, he spoke also this parable: 10 Two men went up into the temple to pray: the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. 11 The Pharisee standing, prayed thus with himself: O God, I give thee thanks that I am not as the rest of men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, as also is this publican. 12 I fast twice in a week: I give tithes of all that I possess. 13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not so much as lift up his eyes towards heaven; but struck his breast, saying: O god, be merciful to me a sinner. 14 I say to you, this man went down into his house justified rather that the other: because every one that exalteth himself, shall be humbled: and he that humbleth himself, shall be exalted.

**Acts 15:11 **But by the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, we believe to be saved, in like manner as they also.

Titus 3:4 But when the goodness and kindness of God our Savior appeared: 5 Not by the works of justice, which we have done, but according to his mercy, he saved us, by the laver of regeneration, and renovation of the Holy Ghost; 6 Whom he hath poured forth upon us abundantly, through Jesus Christ our Savior:

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Thank you.

Mom of 5