Is there still racism in America?

[Ridgerunner]

You run into issues where terrorists these days don’t fit people’s preconcieved notions of Muslims, for example the white guy from Kosovo, the Nigerian one (Nigeria is mostly Catholic), etc. I’d be far more worried about converts in the West tbh.

I expect you’re right. I was merely using air travel as an example.

 

[exnihilo]

I respectfully disagree… If one has ever inquired as to who may qualify for federal/state grants and government contract opportunities, it becomes quite apparent that anyone deemed to be a minority gets special consideration.

Another legal bias or inconsistency is in the capture of crime statistics. FBI crime statistics, which are used for many purposes including showing alleged bias, in at least many cases if not all, include Hispanics with Whites together as a group when it comes to the race of the perpetrator of a crime. But these groups are separated when reporting the victim of a crime. I have no idea what justification they offer for such an accounting principle.

 

[meltzerboy]

Positive stereotypes are still stereotypes. My point exactly, adding that no human is free of them, either positively or negatively. It’s part of the human condition. My further point is that it’s self-deceptive on the part of people to claim that they’re free of bias. The question is not whether I’m free of biases, but what I do with regard to others, despite them.

And it isn’t all racial or ethnicist or any of the “traditional” biases we all recognize. Right now the medical world is coming up with all sorts of biases that enter into treatment protocols.

Is it always wrong to hold a bias? What about the polls showing, for example, that some 10% of all Muslims have jihadi sympathies? Should we, in the name of not having prejudices, ignore that entirely, or should we perhaps be more cautious when it comes to scrutinizing young men from the Muslim world at airports than we are with superannuated Irish nuns?

In this country, we have answered it one way; no, we should not. Enhanced scrutiny should be random, so that the octegenarian Irish nun has an equal chance of being additionally searched as a young man from Somalia, because we would be showing bias in giving additional scrutiny based on something that’s objectively true. There are more young Muslim terrorists than there are octegenarian Irish nun terrorists.

El Al has, as we know, answered it quite a different way; yes, we should give additional scrutiny based on factors common to terrorists. That’s a bias, no question about it. But it also makes good sense, objectively.

But El Al doesn’t have all young Muslim travelers taken out and shot for that reason alone. Offense is one thing, consequences are another. I don’t doubt many are offended by El Al’s scrutiny protocols. But they’re not shot. If they’re cleared, they get on the plane and go their way.

Again, the question is not whether we have preconceived notions of people, but what we do about them.

I don’t know, those octogenarian Irish nuns look awfully suspicious to me!

I think we should take our cue from Israel’s El Al on this issue (not a common liberal way of thinking, I realize). Random checks are pretty useless when it comes to airline security. Scrutiny of behavior, not only ethnicity, is essential. Sometimes there are surprises regarding, for example, female terrorists; but, by and large, more common sense is needed, as well as higher pay and better training for those in charge of checking.

 

[WilT]

Black Pastors: Comparing Homosexuality to Civil Rights Fight is ‘Distortion’ of History

“A person’s sexuality and sexual preferences, however, are not their state of being, or even an immutable aspect of who they are, as race is,” “The truth of the matter is that it is merely activity in which they engage. The state has no responsibility to promote any person’s sexual proclivities, whether heterosexual, homosexual, or otherwise.”

christiannews.net/2014/05/18/black-pastors-comparing-homosexuality-to-civil-rights-fight-is-distortion-of-history/

 

[WilT]

easy now ThinkingSapien lol.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

easy now ThinkingSapien lol.

I couldn’t help but notice the similarities.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Yesterday I walked to the Japanese American National Museum (LA). One of the tour guides there was the son of parents that had been sent to one of the American Internment camps. When he was speaking to me one of the things that he said was that the tendency for humans to discriminate against people that are not like them is a natural tendency that may have served humans well in times past; it was important to recognize who was a member of your own group/tribe and who was an outsider that may be coming to exploit you. But it’s a tendency that people need to work against if they want to contribute to a more productive society.

Last night I was also listening to NPR and they had an interview with the person that runs the online dating site OKCupid (audio available here ). He pulls data from the behaviour of the people that use the site and (no surprise) finds that the way people behave is not the way people describe themselves. When asked if they have a racial bias many people will answer “no” but the behaviour of the people on the site shows something different.
Christian Rudder:

All the data on race I have is from dating sites, but on these sites black users, especially, there’s a bias against them. Every kind of way you can measure their success on a site — how people rate them, how often they reply to their messages, how many messages they get — that’s all reduced.

For people that are into number crunching you can see quantitative data here.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Pperhaps us old white guys should sue!:

And march in the streets and tell everyone how offended you are! :nunchuk:

 

[WilT]

QUOTE=ThinkingSapien;1231769 When he was speaking to me one of the things that he said was that the tendency for humans to discriminate against people that are not like them is a natural tendency that may have served humans well in times past; it was important to recognize who was a member of your own group/tribe and who was an outsider that may be coming to exploit you.

I agree. this reaction is set in us deeply and this natural tendency as you stated above creates divisions unknowingly. Now as Christians we need to recognize this hidden tendency so we can better assimilate with one another in God’s Church. Thanks for your comment

 

[Skye_Ariel]

I agree. There is almost zero racism still in America. Racism is the belief in the inherent superiority of one race over another. There is lots of prejudice but that is human nature. If we didn’t pre-judge situations the human race would never have survived. I would also argue prejudice has very little to do with race. Look at these two pictures.

http://www.chamtheblogger.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/tidjane.jpg

pandorama.com

Now imagine if you met these two guys walking down the street. Would you feel more threatened by one than the other? Would you be more likely to cross the street if you met one or the other? I got news for you if you weren’t a little concerned by the guy in the second picture you have issues. So it really has very little to do with race and everything to do with perceived danger. If you see a black man dressed like a thug you will be concerned just as if you see a white guy in a Hell’s Angels or Outlaws jacket you would be concerned.

LOL I would move faaaaar away from the guy in the second picture.

I will say that race relations have gotten a LOT better and come a loooong way from how things were in the past. And even though the majority of people might not be racists, racisms still exists, in the same way that the majority of people are law abiding citizens but murderers will always exist. Obama got elected because the majority of people especially young people don’t hold those old racist views, but he wasn’t voted in unanimously, so that shows that yes things are a lot better and majority of Americans don’t hold the old fashioned racist views, but majority does not mean all, the question is, is there still racism in America, the question is not asking if the majority of Americans are racist. just if racisms exists and yes it does even if it’s not in the majority of people, but saying racisms doesn’t exist anymore at all is like saying crime or murder no longer exists. Yes we’ve come a long way but as long as race exists, there will always be a few racists, at least for a while. Till we as humans grow up.

 

[Oreoracle]

I think the short answer is that there is still racism in the U.S., but it’s no longer systematic. In fact, legally speaking, minorities have the advantage due to affirmative action. Aside from that, races are equal, legally speaking.

If you’re instead talking about racism in practice, I would say that we see a lot of it in the way that local law enforcement is managed. What happens when most of the officers are middle class white men patrolling neighborhoods inhabited mostly by working class or impoverished blacks? I’m not sure if most of the officers are white simply because black people don’t tend to aspire toward criminal justice professions, but either way police need more oversight.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I don’t know, those octogenarian Irish nuns look awfully suspicious to me!

Formidable, perhaps, but not suspicious. When I was a ten-year-old boy with a tendency to misbehavior in concert with my peers, those nuns were very much a threat. But they were right up front about it.

 

[sassypeach05]

As someone who lives in the deep south, yes, racism is very much alive. However, it is not limited to one type or kind. All races see it and feel it at one point or another. It is a shame and it seems to be gearing up to make a big comeback.

As for it being wrong, it most certainly is. All people are made in the image of God. Thus we should show each other love and respect. We just need to be aware of how all of our peers act, regardless of skin color. Behavior should be looked at first over anything else.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Last night I was also listening to NPR and they had an interview with the person that runs the online dating site OKCupid (audio available here ). He pulls data from the behaviour of the people that use the site and (no surprise) finds that the way people behave is not the way people describe themselves. When asked if they have a racial bias many people will answer “no” but the behaviour of the people on the site shows something different.

Most people will date and marry within their own race. That’s not racist, it’s personal preference.

People who date someone of a different race just to show how tolerant they are is not a good foundation for a relationship.

Also, regarding on-line dating, a lot of people will behave differently than what their profile says. That’s a whole subject I occasionally address in the Family Life Forum.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

As someone who lives in the deep south, yes, racism is very much alive. However, it is not limited to one type or kind. All races see it and feel it at one point or another. It is a shame and it seems to be gearing up to make a big comeback.

Yesterday I was at the Museum of Tolerance in LA. While it is probably more well known for it’s Holocaust exhibits they try to cover areas of unjust treatment all over the globe and throughout history.

While there was reference to classification by race I don’t think I encountered the word “Racism” used a single time in the exhibits. But there was more attention given to the aggregate impact that behaviours of prejudice have on other people alone with what they called “The new face of hate.” If some one were looking for the old signs of hate in the United States they will find them greatly reduced (tough not all together gone). If we look for signs of hate and unjust discrimination in the USA based off of what was prevalent in the 1960s and before then we may be looking for the wrong signs. One of the tour guides there gave me her unsolicited opinion that things have changed, but hate is still very much alive.

One of the interesting things in the museum is for one exhibit there are two doors through which you can enter; one labeled “prejudiced” and the other “unprejudiced.” The only doors through which any one can actually enter are the doors labeled “prejudiced.” That was the museum’s way of making the statement we all carry prejudices. Some of the other interactive exhibits showed how we can be unintentionally and unknowingly harmful to others with our prejudices.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Most people will date and marry within their own race. That’s not racist, it’s personal preference.

People who date someone of a different race just to show how tolerant they are is not a good foundation for a relationship.

I’ve not referred to it as “racist,” nor has NPR or Chris Rudder. I used the term “racial bias”, in other words preferences towards or against other classifications of race. (I think we may be in a position of agreement, please review what I had stated in my message).

He was showing the difference between what people state and what people do. The difference is that among people who state that race classification is not an issue the behaviour shows otherwise. He also found biases that people that are willing to date outside of their race classification had preferences for and against other race classifications and that a prevailing pattern is that among those willing to date outside of their race that blacks were the group that others were least willing to date despite other indicators that the two people might be a good match.

Also, regarding on-line dating, a lot of people will behave differently than what their profile says. That’s a whole subject I occasionally address in the Family Life Forum.

That’s not limited to online dating. In many areas in life peoples behaviour varies from what their stated position is. The advantage that online dating has is that both stated positions and behaviour is being captured and can be more easily analyzed (side note, the founder of OKCupid was a Math major from Harvard). Chris Rudder’s book Dataclysm: Who We Are (When We Think No One’s Looking) (released tomorrow) uses various digital information sources to try to examine this.
Book Description:

For centuries, we’ve relied on polling or small-scale lab experiments to study human behavior. Today, a new approach is possible. As we live more of our lives online, researchers can finally observe us directly, in vast numbers, and without filters. Data scientists have become the new demographers.

Chris Rudder:

The data in my book is almost all passively observed—there’s no questionnaire, no contrived experiment to simulate “real life.” This data is real life. Online you have friends, lovers, enemies, and intense moments of truth without a thought for who’s watching, because ostensibly no one is—except of course the computers recording it all. This is how digital data circumvents that old research obstacle: people’s inability to be honest when the truth makes them look bad. Digital data’s ability to get at the private mind like this is unprecedented and very powerful.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

I just received this in an email. It has been around…maybe you have seen it.

Hello.

Don’t recognize me?

That’s OK; I understand.

My name was Antonio West.

I was the 13-month old child who was shot in the face at point blank range by two black teens, who were attempting to rob my mother, who was also shot.

I think my murder and my mommy’s wounding made the news for maybe a day, and then disappeared.

A Grand Jury of my mommy’s peers from Brunswick, Georgia ruled the black teens who murdered me will not face the death penalty… too bad it was me who got the death
sentence from my killers instead, because Mommy didn’t have the money they demanded.

See, my family made the mistake of being white in a 73% non-white neighborhood, but my murder wasn’t ruled a ‘hate crime’.

I’m one of the youngest murder victims in our great Nation’s history, but the media didn’t care to cover the story of my being killed in cold blood.

There isn’t a white equivalent of Al Sharpton, because if there was he would be branded a ‘racist’.

So no one’s rushing to Brunswick, Georgia to demonstrate and demand ‘justice’ for me.
There’s no ‘White Panther’ party, either, to put a bounty on the lives of the two black teens who murdered me.

I have no voice, I have no representation, and unlike those who shot me in the face while I sat innocently in my stroller - I no longer have my life.

Isn’t this a great country?

So while you’re out seeking justice for Trayvon Martin or Michael Brown, please remember to seek a little justice for me too.

My point in posting this is simple. The social and media attention given to Martin and Brown compared to little Antonio West shows that what is known as “racism” in America is a one way street. Since the killers of Antonio are not considered racist hate criminals…real racism does not exist in America.

I reject this notion that only a majority can be racist and all minorities are therefore innocent victims. Until it is admitted, and well understood, that minorities can harbor intense racial hatred…there is no point in discussing racism in the United States.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Until it is admitted, and well understood, that minorities can harbor intense racial hatred…there is no point in discussing racism in the United States.

I get the impression that the consensus is that any one can be hateful along any attribute. Are you getting a different impression?

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

I just received this in an email. It has been around…maybe you have seen it.

My point in posting this is simple. The social and media attention given to Martin and Brown compared to little Antonio West shows that what is known as “racism” in America is a one way street. Since the killers of Antonio are not considered racist hate criminals…real racism does not exist in America.

I reject this notion that only a majority can be racist and all minorities are therefore innocent victims. Until it is admitted, and well understood, that minorities can harbor intense racial hatred…there is no point in discussing racism in the United States.

No one cares when that happens to black people so why should they care when it happens to white people?

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

I get the impression that the consensus is that any one can be hateful along any attribute. Are you getting a different impression?

Good question…after pondering I would say…

Yes, I understand that anyone can be hateful along any attribute.

My problem is focused on the sensationalism devoted to “racial” crimes/problems centered on only one “race”.