W
whatistrue
Guest
You want a link to something that didn’t happen? I think not.
Is there superiority of Traditional Latin Mass over 'regular Mass'?
- Status
W
whatistrue
Guest
Only about 2-1/2 years for me, so maybe I missed some. But my (anecdotal) experience is that the mods often tend to support a flag even if it isn’t really warranted under the rules.
A
AlbMagno
Guest
But why all the people that say “Novus Ordo” don’t call Tridentine Mass “Vetus Ordo”?
P
phil19034
Guest
Because saying “old order” makes it sound outdated and/or replaced.
Last edited:
W
whatistrue
Guest
Then how about the conspiratorial implications of “New Order”?
P
phil19034
Guest
When you have Archbishops and even Bishop Barron calling the Ordinary Form the Novus Ordo, I think we can safely assume that using that term is simply saying “New Order of the Mass” in Latinphil19034:
Then how about the conspiratorial implications of “New Order”?
Novus Ordo is shorthand for Novus Ordo Missa - “New Order of the Mass” - which is a common phrase amount liturgical academics.
“Old Order of the Mass” isn’t a common phrase, hence why Vetus Ordo / Vetus Ordo Missa isn’t common.
There’s no conspiracy regarding the terms.
Last edited:
W
whatistrue
Guest
I never said there was an actual conspiracy, but the term “New Order” in wider circles can have such an implication. Surely you have heard about some of the “New World Order” conspiracy theories. So it seems to me to be as valid to talk about that as to talk about “Old Order” implying being outdated, even though we both know it really isn’t.
A
AlbMagno
Guest
Just like that, to me, Novus Ordo seems to imply that the Mass is something new, uncalled for.
And I disagree with the use of the term by Bishop Barron. I like him a lot, but that doesn’t mean that I must agree with everything he says.
To me (and the other people who doesn’t like to use Novus Ordo), “Ordinary Form” and “Extraordinary Form” sound much more neutral.
And I disagree with the use of the term by Bishop Barron. I like him a lot, but that doesn’t mean that I must agree with everything he says.
To me (and the other people who doesn’t like to use Novus Ordo), “Ordinary Form” and “Extraordinary Form” sound much more neutral.
B
BartholomewB
Guest
The answer, I think, is that the CDW never used the term “Vetus Ordo,” whereas it did at one time use “Novus Ordo [Missae].”
Last edited:
A
AlbMagno
Guest
Did the people who use the term “Novus Ordo” learn it from the CDW?
If we are going to apply that term for the post-VII Mass, then we should at least apply the logical-equivalent term for the TLM.
If we are going to apply that term for the post-VII Mass, then we should at least apply the logical-equivalent term for the TLM.
P
phil19034
Guest
This is why people say “Novus Ordo Mass” instead of “New Order Mass”phil19034:
I never said there was an actual conspiracy, but the term “New Order” in wider circles can have such an implication. Surely you have heard about some of the “New World Order” conspiracy theories. So it seems to me to be as valid to talk about that as to talk about “Old Order” implying being outdated, even though we both know it really isn’t.
If someone went around saying “New Order Mass” I think we could all raise some eyebrows.
Furthermore, the phrase used in English to denote Vetus Ordo or Vetus Missa is “traditional order of the Mass” or simply the “Traditional Mass”
The word “traditional” implies timeless, yet still valid.
The word “old” implies outdated, obsolete.
We replace old things with new things. We replace older workers with younger ones, etc.
However we supplement new things with tradition and supplement tradition with new things. Tradition and modern can coexist. While new typically replaces old.
That’s why the “new” is associated with the “new Mass” or “Novus Ordo Missa” while “traditional” is associated with the “traditional Mass” or “Vetus Ordo Missa”
Last edited:
B
BartholomewB
Guest
The CDW later adopted a different terminology, namely Ordinary Form and Extraordinary Form. @Vico is the expert on the complex history of the changes that took place from the mid-twentieth century onward.
Last edited:
W
whatistrue
Guest
So are you now changing your mind on your previous assertion? Or is this a case of mobile goalposts?
P
phil19034
Guest
I have no idea what you are talking about
Last edited:
W
whatistrue
Guest
This…
Simply making a comparison between your comment re: “old” and other comments from other people re: “New”. Clear now?
P
phil19034
Guest
I don’t understand.phil19034:
This…
Simply making a comparison between your comment re: “old” and other comments from other people re: “New”. Clear now?
Old things are obsolete
New things are pristine
Traditional things are classic/historic
Old is bad
New is good
Traditional is historic
Last edited:
W
whatistrue
Guest
You appear to be inferring that which I did not imply and which is not found in what I wrote.
Sorry to hear that. I don’t know how to say it any clearer.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
“New Order Mass” makes me think the settings were written by Peter Hook and Bernard Sumner.
P
phil19034
Guest
??? We are obviously not talking about the same thing, or taking past one another because I’m not following you.You appear to be inferring that which I did not imply and which is not found in what I wrote.
phil19034:
Sorry to hear that. I don’t know how to say it any clearer.
You wrote: but the term “New Order” in wider circles can have such an implication. Surely you have heard about some of the “New World Order” conspiracy theories.
So I replied with: This is why people say “Novus Ordo Mass” instead of “New Order Mass”
If someone went around saying “New Order Mass” I think we could all raise some eyebrows.
W
whatistrue
Guest
This is apparent. My original reply about “new order” having overtones of conspiracy was strictly related to your post about “old order” having overtones of outdated or replaced. That’s it; nothing deeper involved. No aspersions cast, no accusations leveled. I think this equine is well and truly deceased.
- Status