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Xavierlives
Guest
From a Catholic and non-Catholic perspective, is there a chance that children can go to hell?
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josephdaniel29
Guest
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PaulDupre
Guest
If you mean innocents below the age of accountability, the Catechism says…
Personally, I don’t believe that God would allow anyone to go to hell for something beyond his control. All of scripture emphasizes that we are rewarded of punished for our deeds in the flesh, not for things over which we have no control. An infant cannot control whether he gets baptised or not.
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StrawberryJam
Guest
As Josephdaniel asked, define children. Because adults are children of God as well.
Who would believe in any kind of “Loving God” that would send wee innocents to eternal damnation? Not even catholics would believe such nonsense.
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Lutheranteach
Guest
As a teacher, I have on very rare occasion run across a child that I was not sure wasn’t just naughty, or bad, or troubled, but evil. These are children who take delight in physically emotionally hurting those around them and put together very sophisticated plans to do so and have no remorse whatsoever for the actions when caught. I’ve thought about what must happen to those children should they meet with an early demise.
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Akini
Guest
Baptized children will go to heaven. I don’t think unbaptized children will go to heaven. You can draw you own conclusion from that.
Akini
Akini
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StrawberryJam
Guest
Why not think about the parents that raised them? Do you really believe that the parents had no effect on this type of child you describe?
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StrawberryJam
Guest
Yes, I did. Those poor aborted babies don’t get heaven according to you.
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Lutheranteach
Guest
I’ve met three of these children. Some others I could see the home and the environment being a huge part. But these three (out of scores) were the most disturbing. Why? Because they had the nicest parents you would ever want to meet. Parents that had tried everything, done everything and loved the kid dearly, but literally feared for their lives at times. Evil? Head full of bad wiring? Both?
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StrawberryJam
Guest
Possessed by satan? That’s happening a lot in Africa now.
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Akini
Guest
StrawberryJam
Aborted babies are not yet born! I am referring to children who are already born and are alive.
Akini
Aborted babies are not yet born! I am referring to children who are already born and are alive.
Akini
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StrawberryJam
Guest
Oh. I guess they could be guilty of something after they leave the birth canal. Since, they are just babies, all they could be guilty of in your theology is original sin. But, participation in actual sin???
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ralphinal
Guest
Life begins at conception. With life comes a soul. With a soul comes eternal fate.
The basic point of the CCC is 100% accurate and easy to deal with (in my mind). Unbaptised babies are left to the Mercy of God. It is not their fault that they were not baptised. In fact, it may not be their parent’s fault either.
The basic point of the CCC is 100% accurate and easy to deal with (in my mind). Unbaptised babies are left to the Mercy of God. It is not their fault that they were not baptised. In fact, it may not be their parent’s fault either.
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Akini
Guest
We must be baptized in order for us (including babies, children, adults) to enter the Kingdom of heaven. Babies who are not baptized and died, will not go to heaven. Whether they go to heaven depends on God’s mercy is another matter.
Akini
Akini
F
firstmode
Guest
No.
Mark 10:13-16 (New International Version)
The Little Children and Jesus
13People were bringing little children to Jesus to have him touch them, but the disciples rebuked them. 14When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 15I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.” 16And he took the children in his arms, put his hands on them and blessed them.
Mark 10:13-16 (New International Version)
The Little Children and Jesus
13People were bringing little children to Jesus to have him touch them, but the disciples rebuked them. 14When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 15I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.” 16And he took the children in his arms, put his hands on them and blessed them.
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firstmode
Guest
Apocalypse of Peter:
Introduction
We have not a pure and complete text of this book, which ranked next in popularity and probably also in date to the Canonical Apocalypse of St. John.
We have, first, certain quotations made by writers of the first four centuries.
Next, a fragment in Greek, called the Akhmim fragment, found with the Passion-fragment of the Gospel of Peter in a manuscript known as the Gizeh MS. (discovered in a tomb) now at Cairo. This is undoubtedly drawn from the Apocalypse of Peter: but my present belief is that, like the Passion fragment (see p. 90), it is part of the Gospel of Peter, which was a slightly later book than the Apocalypse and quoted it almost in extenso. There is also in the Bodleian Library a mutilated leaf of a very tiny Greek MS. of the fifth century which supplies a few lines of what I take to be the original Greek text.
Thirdly, an Ethiopic version contained in one of the numerous forms of the books of Clement, a writing current in Arabic and Ethiopic purporting to contain revelations of the history of the world from the Creation, of the last times, and of guidance for the churches -dictated by Peter to Clement. The version of the Apocalypse contained in this has some extraneous matter at the beginning and the end; but, as I have tried to show in a series of articles in the Journal of Theological Studies (1910-11) and the Church Quarterly Review (1915), it affords the best general idea of the contents of the whole book which we have. The second book of the Sibylline Oracles contains (in Greek hexameters) a paraphrase of a great part of the Apocalypse: and its influence can be traced in many early writings -the Acts of Thomas (55-57), the Martyrdom of Perpetua, the so-called Second Epistle of Clement, and, as I think, the Shepherd of Hermas: as well as in the Apocalypse of Paul and many later visions.
The length of the book is given in the Stichometry of Nicephorus as 300 lines and in that of the Codex Claromontanus (D of the Epistle) as 270: the latter is a Latin list of the Biblical books; already cited for the Acts of Paul.
There is no mention of it in the Gelasian Decree, which is curious. At one time it was popular in Rome for the Muratorian Canon mentions it (late in the second century?) along with the Apocalypse of John though it adds, that ‘some will not have it read in the church.’ The fifth-century church historian Sozomen (vii. 19) says that to his knowledge it was still read annually in some churches in Palestine on Good Friday.
A translation of the ancient quotations shall be given first.
Introduction
We have not a pure and complete text of this book, which ranked next in popularity and probably also in date to the Canonical Apocalypse of St. John.
We have, first, certain quotations made by writers of the first four centuries.
Next, a fragment in Greek, called the Akhmim fragment, found with the Passion-fragment of the Gospel of Peter in a manuscript known as the Gizeh MS. (discovered in a tomb) now at Cairo. This is undoubtedly drawn from the Apocalypse of Peter: but my present belief is that, like the Passion fragment (see p. 90), it is part of the Gospel of Peter, which was a slightly later book than the Apocalypse and quoted it almost in extenso. There is also in the Bodleian Library a mutilated leaf of a very tiny Greek MS. of the fifth century which supplies a few lines of what I take to be the original Greek text.
Thirdly, an Ethiopic version contained in one of the numerous forms of the books of Clement, a writing current in Arabic and Ethiopic purporting to contain revelations of the history of the world from the Creation, of the last times, and of guidance for the churches -dictated by Peter to Clement. The version of the Apocalypse contained in this has some extraneous matter at the beginning and the end; but, as I have tried to show in a series of articles in the Journal of Theological Studies (1910-11) and the Church Quarterly Review (1915), it affords the best general idea of the contents of the whole book which we have. The second book of the Sibylline Oracles contains (in Greek hexameters) a paraphrase of a great part of the Apocalypse: and its influence can be traced in many early writings -the Acts of Thomas (55-57), the Martyrdom of Perpetua, the so-called Second Epistle of Clement, and, as I think, the Shepherd of Hermas: as well as in the Apocalypse of Paul and many later visions.
The length of the book is given in the Stichometry of Nicephorus as 300 lines and in that of the Codex Claromontanus (D of the Epistle) as 270: the latter is a Latin list of the Biblical books; already cited for the Acts of Paul.
There is no mention of it in the Gelasian Decree, which is curious. At one time it was popular in Rome for the Muratorian Canon mentions it (late in the second century?) along with the Apocalypse of John though it adds, that ‘some will not have it read in the church.’ The fifth-century church historian Sozomen (vii. 19) says that to his knowledge it was still read annually in some churches in Palestine on Good Friday.
A translation of the ancient quotations shall be given first.
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StrawberryJam
Guest
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firstmode
Guest
- From Clement of Alexandria’s so-called Prophetical Extracts, a series of detached sentences excerpted from some larger work, generally supposed to be his Hypotyposes or Outlines:
- Ibid. (48 . 1 ) The providence of God doth not light upon them only that are in the flesh. For example, Peter in the Apocalypse saith that the children born out of due time (abortively) that would have been of the better part (i. e. would have been saved if they had lived) -these are delivered to a care-taking angel, that they may partake of knowledge and obtain the better abode, having suffered what they would have suffered had they been in the body. But the others (i.e. those who would not have been saved, had they lived) shall only obtain salvation, as beings that have been injured and had mercy shown to them, and shall continue without torment, receiving that as a reward.
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firstmode
Guest
- From the Symposium (ii.6) of Methodius of Olympus (third century). He does not name his source. Whence also we have received in inspired writings that children born untimely -even if they be the offspring of adultery- are delivered to care-taking angels. For if they had come into being contrary to the will and ordinance of that blessed nature of God, how could they have been delivered to angels to be nourished up in all repose and tranquillity? And how could they have confidently summoned their parents before the judgement seat of Christ to accuse them? saying: Thou, O Lord, didst not begrudge us this light that is common to all, but these exposed us to death, contemning thy commandment.
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firstmode
Guest
FROM THE APOCALYPSE OF PETER:
And near by this flame shall be a pit, great and very deep, and into it floweth from above all manner of torment, foulness, and issue. And women are swallowed up therein up to their necks and tormented with great pain. These are they that have caused their children to be born untimely, and have corrupted the work of God that created them. Over against them shall be another place where sit their children [both] alive, and they cry unto God. And flashes (lightnings) go forth from those children and pierce the eyes of them that for fornication’s sake have caused their destruction.
Other men and women shall stand above them, naked; and their children stand over against them in a place of delight, and sigh and cry unto God because of their parents, saying: These are they that have despised and cursed and transgressed thy commandments and delivered us unto death: they have cursed the angel that formed us, and have hanged us up, and withheld from us (or, begrudged us) the light which thou hast given unto all creatures. And the milk of their mothers flowing from their breasts shall congeal, and from it shall come beasts devouring flesh, which shall come forth and turn and torment them for ever with their husbands, because they forsook the commandments of God and slew their children. As for their children, they shall be delivered unto the angel Temlakos (i.e. a care-taking angel: see above, in the Fragments). And they that slew them shall be tormented eternally, for God willeth it so.
And near by this flame shall be a pit, great and very deep, and into it floweth from above all manner of torment, foulness, and issue. And women are swallowed up therein up to their necks and tormented with great pain. These are they that have caused their children to be born untimely, and have corrupted the work of God that created them. Over against them shall be another place where sit their children [both] alive, and they cry unto God. And flashes (lightnings) go forth from those children and pierce the eyes of them that for fornication’s sake have caused their destruction.
Other men and women shall stand above them, naked; and their children stand over against them in a place of delight, and sigh and cry unto God because of their parents, saying: These are they that have despised and cursed and transgressed thy commandments and delivered us unto death: they have cursed the angel that formed us, and have hanged us up, and withheld from us (or, begrudged us) the light which thou hast given unto all creatures. And the milk of their mothers flowing from their breasts shall congeal, and from it shall come beasts devouring flesh, which shall come forth and turn and torment them for ever with their husbands, because they forsook the commandments of God and slew their children. As for their children, they shall be delivered unto the angel Temlakos (i.e. a care-taking angel: see above, in the Fragments). And they that slew them shall be tormented eternally, for God willeth it so.
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