Is there the chance that children can go to Hell?

[firstmode]

We must be baptized in order for us (including babies, children, adults) to enter the Kingdom of heaven. Babies who are not baptized and died, will not go to heaven. Whether they go to heaven depends on God’s mercy is another matter.

Akini

Luke 23:40-43 (New International Version)

40But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? 41We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”

42Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.[a]”

43Jesus answered him, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.”

 

[Akini]

St.Mark 10:13-16 has nothing to do with the topic in question. Every unbaptized human being (including babies, children, adults, very old people) will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. It is true that everyone of us is subject to God’s mercy. It is another matter if a child goes to heaven (at death) because of God’s mercy. That is up to God alone.

It is however crystal clear that if a child is baptized and died just after, that child will go to Heaven straight away without any hassle. For us baptised living human beings, we must work out our salvation until the end of our earthly life.

Akini

 

[StrawberryJam]

Luke 23:40-43 (New International Version)

40But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? 41We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”

42Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.[a]”

43Jesus answered him, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.”

That man was never baptised, yet Jesus accepted him.

God is not bound by anything, and can do as he wishes. He could set out a normal means for doing anything, yet not need to follow it himself.

That is how I understand your God.

 

[ralphinal]

That man was never baptised, yet Jesus accepted him.

God is not bound by anything, and can do as he wishes. He could set out a normal means for doing anything, yet not need to follow it himself.

That is how I understand your God.

That is correct in the proper context.

God can do anything that is not contrary to his nature.

God can save whom he wishes HOWEVER his ability to save who he wishes does not remove our obligation to do as he commanded.

 

[benidict]

Yes, I did. Those poor aborted babies don’t get heaven according to you.

hi strawberry jam. WOW! good point. i think she may be a little bit off on this as well. have done work for the 40 days for life campaign. and all the Brothers and Sisters in the Catholic Church i have worked with would never espouse to this. all of us believed they go straight to Heaven. also we dont shun the mothers who have made this decision. on the contrary, if they need us we are there for them. have many women who do a very good job of counceling women who have been harmed spiritually emotionally and physically by this procedure. its horrible all the way around. but to think that a just Creator would send an infant to hell is just unfathomable. if i did not believe in a just God, i would probably go further than you and be an atheist. thankfully i believe He is just. and an infant will not pay for the errors of his or her parents. thank you for your insights.

 

[StrawberryJam]

St.Mark 10:13-16 has nothing to do with the topic in question. Every unbaptized human being (including babies, children, adults, very old people) will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. It is true that everyone of us is subject to God’s mercy. It is another matter if a child goes to heaven (at death) because of God’s mercy. That is up to God alone.

It is however crystal clear that if a child is baptized and died just after, that child will go to Heaven straight away without any hassle. For us baptised living human beings, we must work out our salvation until the end of our earthly life.

Akini

Mark has everything to do with your question. The legalists (pharisee) who demanded law above substance were corrected by Jesus over and over. Even the disciples, as we see in this bit of the narrative (who were brainwashed well) were taught previously, that the children should not dare “waste” the precious time of the learned ones, in this case Jesus himself. Jesus told them to basically, in a kind way to bug off. Don’t hinder the child who wishes to know him. Which leads to more questions, for me anyway.
Such as the wait for Holy Communion and such things.

 

[StrawberryJam]

hi strawberry jam. WOW! good point. i think she may be a little bit off on this as well. have done work for the 40 days for life campaign. and all the Brothers and Sisters in the Catholic Church i have worked with would never espouse to this. all of us believed they go straight to Heaven. also we dont shun the mothers who have made this decision. on the contrary, if they need us we are there for them. have many women who do a very good job of counceling women who have been harmed spiritually emotionally and physically by this procedure. its horrible all the way around. but to think that a just Creator would send an infant to hell is just unfathomable. if i did not believe in a just God, i would probably go further than you and be an atheist. thankfully i believe He is just. and an infant will not pay for the errors of his or her parents. thank you for your insights.

I’m pro life as well. Nice to meet you!

 

[StrawberryJam]

That is correct in the proper context.

God can do anything that is not contrary to his nature.

God can save whom he wishes HOWEVER his ability to save who he wishes does not remove our obligation to do as he commanded.

Hello ralphinal,

That is an angel’s name I think?
A baby has what obligation to do exactly what?

I seriously wonder. What could it be?

 

[firstmode]

St.Mark 10:13-16 has nothing to do with the topic in question. Every unbaptized human being (including babies, children, adults, very old people) will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. It is true that everyone of us is subject to God’s mercy. It is another matter if a child goes to heaven (at death) because of God’s mercy. That is up to God alone.

It is however crystal clear that if a child is baptized and died just after, that child will go to Heaven straight away without any hassle. For us baptised living human beings, we must work out our salvation until the end of our earthly life.

Akini

Maybe you should read what the Magesterium has said in the catechism about the baptism of desire.

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” -Ephesians 2:8,9

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. “ -John 3:16

Romans 10:9

“If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.”

I truly believe that one must seek baptism and have it done as part of his relationship with Jesus and in that way it is essential for salvation. You must never turn down baptism when you have the opportunity nor choose to refuse it in this life because you have confessed with faith and feel you do not need it. Christ said you need it, but if you have the desire for following Christ’s commands but have not been taught baptism or did not have a chance to be baptized before you died, then you will still be saved. This is not the case if you refuse baptism because you feel you do not need it. In the Orthodox church, if you are in the process of training and learning to be accepted into the church, much like catechism, but die during that training process, you will still be buried and given a funeral as if Orthodox. This is much like the baptism by desire as taught by the Magesterium.

 

[ralphinal]

Hello ralphinal,

That is an angel’s name I think?
A baby has what obligation to do exactly what?

I seriously wonder. What could it be?

You are thinking of Raphael (my patron). My name is my name (Ralph) and where I am (in Alabama). I am not very original.

The baby has no obligation. That is why we can say that God’s mercy is enough.

The adults in that babies life do. As the child gets older, he then has obligations as well.

 

[benidict]

I’m pro life as well. Nice to meet you!

hi strawberry jam. that is awesome. as i try to tell people, its not a religious or political issue its a human rights issue. but akini, if the Creator is not a loving caring deity that cherishes the least of us. and the most innocent. why would anybody want to believe in such a deity? akini seems to have a very harsh view of the Lord that is not taught in the Church. that saddens me. Jesus said whoever offends the least of these it would be better if a millstone would be hung around his neck and he be thrown into the deepest sea.for God to send an innocent to hell, be they an infant or an adult who is mentally disabled, would be to contradict his own word. best wishes for you my friend.

 

[ralphinal]

Akini’s view is not that strange to the Church. At one time, it was the cause of the theological speculation of limbo. The Bible is clear that one must be baptised to enter heaven. The Church was faced with a situation. A merciful and just God would not damn someone who did not choose to rebel against him. However, if God said this is how it is, we are bound by it. Thus, the unbaptised babies ended up in Limbo (where there was no suffering). Now, we just say they are left to God’s mercy and try not to go too far beyond that

 

[StrawberryJam]

hi strawberry jam. that is awesome. as i try to tell people, its not a religious or political issue its a human rights issue. but akini, if the Creator is not a loving caring deity that cherishes the least of us. and the most innocent. why would anybody want to believe in such a deity? akini seems to have a very harsh view of the Lord that is not taught in the Church. that saddens me. Jesus said whoever offends the least of these it would be better if a millstone would be hung around his neck and he be thrown into the deepest sea.for God to send an innocent to hell, be they an infant or an adult who is mentally disabled, would be to contradict his own word. best wishes for you my friend.

Your God Jesus said he had no place to hang his head, but that the foxes and birds? Did.
according to the narrative.

So much like the innocent children, unborn especially. But, even the just born and the little children.

How can a little child who is loved, do anything to displease the very creator who made them? Wouldn’t that be a statement about the creator?

Adam was not a child ever. Nor was Eve.

Original sin, came from adults. If you take the narrative literally.

 

[Akini]

With respect to St.Luke 23:40-43, I agree that criminal was not a baptized man. But he was saved by Christ’s mercy. That was Christ’s prerogative. As for St.Mark 10:13-16, a closer look will tell you that Christ actually say "the Kingdom of God belongs to SUCH as these (verse 14). He immediately followed that with “I assure you that whoever does not receive the Kingdom of God like a child will never enter it”(verse 15). Verse 14 does not mean children will enter God’s Kingdom (unbaptized children). What is the word “Such” is referring to in verse 14. I think “such” is referring to other matters which relate to something associated with children in general.

Akini

 

[StrawberryJam]

With respect to St.Luke 23:40-43, I agree that criminal was not a baptized man. But he was saved by Christ’s mercy. That was Christ’s prerogative. As for St.Mark 10:13-16, a closer look will tell you that Christ actually say "the Kingdom of God belongs to SUCH as these (verse 14). He immediately followed that with “I assure you that whoever does not receive the Kingdom of God like a child will never enter it”(verse 15). Verse 14 does not mean children will enter God’s Kingdom. What is the word “Such” is referring to in verse 14. I think “such” is referring to other matters which relate to something associated with children in general.

Akini

It’s good that you qualifyed your personal interpretation.

From what I can see the Early Fathers sent these children to Limbo, for lack of any other ideas of what to do with them.

There is no reason to believe the children are in hell or purgatory.

And, we know that Limbo has had its fair share of speculation (of it’s very existance)

So. Where is this thread headed? To make people think catholics believe little children will go to hell?

I don’t believe that for one minute, and I doubt anyone here believes that either.

 

[benidict]

With respect to St.Luke 23:40-43, I agree that criminal was not a baptized man. But he was saved by Christ’s mercy. That was Christ’s prerogative. As for St.Mark 10:13-16, a closer look will tell you that Christ actually say "the Kingdom of God belongs to SUCH as these (verse 14). He immediately followed that with “I assure you that whoever does not receive the Kingdom of God like a child will never enter it”(verse 15). Verse 14 does not mean children will enter God’s Kingdom (unbaptized children). What is the word “Such” is referring to in verse 14. I think “such” is referring to other matters which relate to something associated with children in general.

Akini

hi akini. understand where you are coming from. but again. if the Creator does not love the least of these,ie children, those who cannot make a decision for themselves. then he is not a just God. where does your harsh view of God come from? point to me in the catechism where it says that unbaptized infants or anyone not cogniznt enough to make a decision go to hell? this does not seem to fit with Catholic theology. plz educate me. love in Christ. may God bless you and yours.

 

[benidict]

It’s good that you qualifyed your personal interpretation.

From what I can see the Early Fathers sent these children to Limbo, for lack of any other ideas of what to do with them.

There is no reason to believe the children are in hell or purgatory.

And, we know that Limbo has had its fair share of speculation (of it’s very existance)

So. Where is this thread headed? To make people think catholics believe little children will go to hell?

I don’t believe that for one minute, and I doubt anyone here believes that either.

if i am not mistaken. and i could be. i do not believe limbo is a dogma of the Church. Catholics are free to accept this or not. someone please clarify

 

[Akini]

I cannot see any hardship in believing that anybody, including children who are un- baptized at death cannot go to Heaven. In all my responses, I don’t think I said unbaptized children will go to Hell. What I said was that unbaptized children (and that applies to every human being) will not go to Heaven, however, their final destiny is with God alone. I am not here to discuss with you whether they go to limbo or not.

What is clear is that, the baptized children are assured of entering Heaven, full stop!

Akini

 

[StrawberryJam]

if i am not mistaken. and i could be. i do not believe limbo is a dogma of the Church. Catholics are free to accept this or not. someone please clarify

It is not dogma, and in fact it’s very existance is speculative only.

 

[StrawberryJam]

I cannot see any hardship in believing that anybody, including children who are un- baptized at death cannot go to Heaven. In all my responses, I don’t think I said unbaptized children will go to Hell. What I said was that unbaptized children (and that applies to every human being) will not go to Heaven, however, their final destiny is with God alone. I am not here to discuss with you whether they go to limbo or not.

What is clear is that, the baptized children are assured of entering Heaven, full stop!

Akini

If they cannot go to heaven, and you don’t wish to consider any other location for them, is this simply a I’m baptised and going to heaven thread? Do you also believe in OSAS?