Is There TRULY just One True Faith and Church desired by Christ?

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Many claims abound on this topic. So weigh in and share your thoughts.

Providing the evidence of your position would be prudent and appreciated,Let’s be sure to keep it chaitable

God Bless you,
Patrick.
 
John 13:34-35
“I give you a new commandment: Love each other. Just as I have loved you, so you also must love each other. This is how everyone will know that you are my disciples, when you love each other.”

This is the one true faith and Church desired by Christ.
 
OK:grinning:

So for sake of discussion, are you implying that all faith “ARE equal?”

Thanks for posting,

God Bless you,
Patrick
 
John 17:20-23
“I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, so that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me. And I have given them the glory you gave me, so that they may be one, as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may be brought to perfection as one, that the world may know that you sent me, and that you loved them even as you loved me.”

Matthew 16:18-19
“Jesus said to him in reply, 'Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. And I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.”

It would seem that these few verses is some way indicate that Christ had one Church and one faith in mind. One of the biggest strikes against Christianity is our lack of unity–when it was so evidently desired by Christ–“so that they may be one, as we are one…that they may be brought to perfection as one”. As one not many.

The peace of Christ,
Mark
 
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Well, my thoughts would be that the Catholic Church was the first Church instituted after Christ’s death. It is unified and universal. It is not bound by culture (as you can see often with the Muslim religion) and is one of the largest religions, a sign that God is at work.
“I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment." First Corinthians 1:10
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Unity is extremely important. Jesus has always called for unity. It is also a sign that the True Church is Catholic because of this unity. I like to see Catholicism as an old newspaper. It has a lot of information on it. It is old, weathered, but still intact. But then people start to tear off little pieces. These little pieces are other Christian religions. You can still see the headlines on the old newspaper; it still serves its purpose because people often only look at the headlines anyway.

My point is that the Christian religions seen today are only small paper peelings of that old newspaper. They do not have the full thing. Often they can cause a stumbling block to those searching for the True Faith because they have peeled off parts of the newspaper and tried claiming they have all the information, when in fact they have only little sentences, but not the main idea.

Shakuhachi posted the verse, “Love each other. Just as I have loved you, so you also must love each other. This is how everyone will know that you are my disciples, when you love each other.”
Where do we see the evidence for this in the Catholic religion? I would answer that we see it in the saints and martyrs who died Catholic. They are beautiful and mystical examples of love that God left for us, willing to give up all for God. That is what He wants, for us to love Him above all. Faith and works. As it says in the James 2:14-26, faith without works is dead.
What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
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Clearly, whatever faith you choose to follow or not follow is your own personal Truth. Everyone thinks theirs is right, but the truth is no one knows what happens after death, it’s the ultimate unknown.
 
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The potential here for chaos is immense! I watch it unfold gleefully 😃
 
If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that ‘every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.’

If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church.* If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.

Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
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Mt 18:16-18

Jesus is speaking to his disciples here, not just Peter alone.
 
There it is…

In Matthew 16, Jesus said He was building a church…

Singular.
 
YES indeed He is;

But what is taking place here WAS Understood…

There is no biblical evidence that ANY of the Apostles [Mt 10:1-4] had even the slightest doubt about the significance of Mt 16 & the authority of the Key’s.

Jerusalem was a “walled-in-city” with real gates and a KEY to lock them. Typically at the time each walled in city would have had their own KING; who would appoint a VISAR and empower same to handle ALL day to day business; answerable ONLY to the KING.

This was so common that there can be no doubt that the Apostles clearly got the message of Jesus in appointing Peter to be HIS Visar; in charge of HIS earthly Kingdom.

Space permitted, I could supply a list of 50 Peter First from the Bible; but let’s just take two here: Mt 10: 1-2 actually call’s Peter “FIRST”

Jn 21: 14-17
[14] This is now the third time that Jesus was manifested to his disciples, after he was risen from the dead. [15] When therefore they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter: Simon son of John, lovest thou me more than these? He saith to HIM: Yea, Lord, thou knowest that I love thee. He saith to him: Feed my lambs.

[16] He saith to HIM again: Simon, son of John, lovest thou me? He saith to him: Yea, Lord, thou knowest that I love thee. He saith to him [YOU]: Feed my lambs. He said to him the third time: Simon, son of John, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved, because he had said to him the third time: Lovest thou me? And he said to him: Lord, thou knowest all things: thou knowest that I love thee. He said to HIM: Feed my sheep.

God Bless you,
Patrick
 
OK:roll_eyes::roll_eyes:

BUT do YOU suppose Jesus is “OK” with that?

It seems to ME, you’re trying to redefine TRUTH

Dictionary Definition of “Truth”
  1. The true or actual state of a matter:
    conformity with fact or reality; verity: the truth of a statement
  2. a verified or indisputable fact, proposition, principle, or the like mathematical truths.
  3. the state or character of being true.
  4. actuality or actual existence.
  5. an obvious or accepted fact; truism; platitude.
  6. honesty; integrity; truthfulness.
  7. (often initial capital letter) ideal or fundamental reality apart from and
    transcending perceived experience:
  8. agreement with a standard or original.
    9… accuracy, as of position or adjustment.
  9. Archaic. Fidelity or constancy. End quotes
BENEDICT XVI
Benedict says: “If we omit the truth, what do we do anything for?”
“Their cannot be your truth and my truth or there would be no truth”

God Bless you
Patrick
 
PJM said:
Providing the evidence of your position

God Bless you,
Patrick.
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Due to limit of text per post, this will be in 2 parts

The Church has been Catholic from the 1st century. The English word Catholic is a transliteration of the Greek katholikos which is a compound word from kata, which means according to, and holos, which means whole. http://www.catholic.com/tracts/what-catholic-means

one can ask, where does kata holos ekklesia appear in scripture?

From the Greek NT

Acts 9:31 the church throughout all [ ἐκκλησία καθ’ ὅλης τῆς ]
ἐκκλησία = Strong's Greek: 1577. ἐκκλησία (ekklésia) -- an assembly, a (religious) congregation ,
καθ’ = http://bibleapps.com/greek/2596.htm ,
ὅλης = http://bibleapps.com/greek/3650.htm ,
τῆς = http://bibleapps.com/greek/3588.htm , Judea and Galilee and Sama’ria…"
= the Kataholos Church = the Catholic Church.

Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch from ~69 a.d. to ~107 a.d. ordained by the apostles, a direct disciple of St John. It was in Antioch where the disciples were first called Christian Acts 11:26 Acts 11:26 RSVCE - and when he had found him, he brought - Bible Gateway . Ignatius in his writings uses both “Christian” and “Catholic Church”

St Ignatius, uses Christian in (ch 2) and Catholic Church in (ch 8)
Epistle to the Smyrnæans http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0109.htm of which schismatics won’t be going to heaven _Epistle to the Philadelphians (ch 3)_ . http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0108.htm . Where would Ignatius learn to teach that warning and consequence for one’s soul, for committing and remaining in the sin of schism / division from the Catholic Church? St Paul

Romans 16:17-20 Douay-Rheims Bible, Romans Chapter 16 ,
Galatians 5:19-21 Douay-Rheims Bible, Romans Chapter 16 and that came from Jesus who does NOT approve of division in His Church John 17:20-23 Douay-Rheims Bible, John Chapter 17 , and since the HS only teaches what comes from Jesus John 16:12-15 Douay-Rheims Bible, John Chapter 16 no one can say the HS inspired THEM to divide, or inspired all the divisions we see today in Christianity. There is no expiration date to that warning and condemnation against division, and those who do it and keep it going. Once one knows the truth of their condition, their own division from the Catholic Church, it’s condemnation, (seen in scripture and Tradition) and don’t end their division, then they can’t be saved.
846 Catechism of the Catholic Church - Paragraph # 846 .

St Polycarp, Bp Smyrna, disciple of St John called the Church the “Catholic Church”
The Martyrdom of Polycarp http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0102.htm

end of pt 1
 
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PJM said:
Many claims abound on this topic. So weigh in and share your thoughts.

Providing the evidence of your position would be prudent and appreciated,Let’s be sure to keep it chaitable

God Bless you,
Patrick.
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Part 2

Muratorian canon~170 a.d. Muratorian Canon (Roberts-Donaldson Translation) uses authority of “Catholic Church” in determining the canon

Irenaeus ~180 a.d. from Smyrna, became bishop of Lyon, wrote “Against Heresies” he called the Church the “Catholic Church” Adversus haereses [Bk 1 Chapter 10 v 3] http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103110.htm . Irenaeus was taught by Polycarp, and teaches all must agree with Rome [Bk 3, Chapter 3, v 2-3] http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103110.htm on account of its preeminent authority

Cyprian~250 a.d. calls the Church the Catholic Church Epistle 54 http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/050654.htm

The Nicene Creed, 325 a.d., teaches it’s an article of faith to believe in the “One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church”

Augustine ~395 There are many other things that most justly keep me in her [i.e. the Catholic Church’s] bosom. . . . The succession of priests keeps me, beginning from the very seat of the Apostle Peter, to whom the Lord, after His resurrection, gave it in charge to feed His sheep, down to the present episcopate. And so, lastly, does the name itself of Catholic, which, not without reason, amid so many heresies, the Church has thus retained; so that, though all heretics wish to be called Catholics, yet when a stranger asks where the Catholic Church meets, no heretic will venture to point to his own chapel or house.Against the Epistle of Manichaeus Called Fundamental (ch 5 v6) http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1405.htm

etc

The same Church today, Pope Francis is over, 266th successor to St Peter.

Jesus started one Church. The Catholic Church. He gave all His promises to His Church. No one then can argue the HS inspired them to start their own church, and divide from the Catholic Church because that would contradict Jesus prayer. John 17:20-23 Douay-Rheims Bible, John Chapter 17
 
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steve-b LETS"S be friends

You didn’t share anything I already knew; but then I suspect you were answering to the FORUM. Very well done.

Thank you so very much!
Patrick
 
PJM said:
Many claims abound on this topic. So weigh in and share your thoughts.

Providing the evidence of your position would be prudent and appreciated,Let’s be sure to keep it chaitable

God Bless you,
Patrick.
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Is there one God or many?
 
Yes, there is absolutely but ONE true Faith and Church desired by Christ!
Actually it answers itself, for what for would Jesus who is God, give us just one out of many truths. It would be the but one and only laws of physics, would be arbitrarily convertible - just as you like and prefer.
Like an Apple doesn’t HAVE TO fall down, but might as well fall unreachably aloft or right or left or anywhere.

Jesus Christ did not „desire“ this but ONE true Faith and Church, but God told us this one and only truth and established it in His Church, to defend und teach God’s truth.
Later came other Church-founders - such as Luther, and taught other, such as the Eucharist is a common meal of the gathered believers, and it holds or even is The Body of Christ - if one might believe so. Other it’s just bread.
Or Christ gave this Eucharist which is His Flesh and Blood - disregarding what anyone might believe or not, to all.
Christ though said in Mark 14,23: This is My Body… This is My Blood… which is poured out for many.…

And several more twisting of God’s Word.

If one reads the Gospel open-hearted, he will eventually slap his forehead and cry out: OH YES OF COURSE SO - NO OTHER „TRUTH“ possible!

The world holds many „truths“. And there are even Christians who dare to think, that Catholic belief is presumptuous, for it claims to be the one and only full truth of God.
But if you got, got got it. To think all religions are right, would be same as if your dog thinks, „all what humans do is right!“ You might happily steel, lie, abuse children, murder - the lot. Your dog thinks, it’s the right thing to do; period!

Don’t be mistaken! Galatians 6,7: Be not deceived, God is not mocked. For what things a man shall sow, those also shall he reap. For he that soweth in his flesh, of the flesh also shall reap corruption. But he that soweth in the spirit, of the spirit shall reap life everlasting.
Do not be deceived. God will not be made a fool. For a person will reap what he sows

Yours
Bruno
 
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