Is this a good Bible?

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The only thing to be careful about is that there are a few verses in the KJV that don’t seem to be in the oldest Greek texts.

One of these is when Jesus says not to get angry with your brother. In the KJV, he adds, “unless you have good reason.” No recent translation from the original texts that I am aware of includes this phrase, and it is not in my Greek NT.
Nanzianzen is correct in pointing out the likely incorrect rendering of the KJV in Matthew 5:22; it reads in the King James: " But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment".

In the Douay-Rheims, it reads: “But I say to you, that whosoever is angry with his brother, shall be in danger of the judgment.”

All of the modern translations also omit the phrase, “without cause,” without even a footnote, so the KJV is likely incorrect in this case.

However, I think that the traditions represented by both the KJV and Douay Rheims are more accurate than many modern translations.

Ever since the English Revised Version of 1881 was produced, textual scholars have suspected that the vast majority of manuscripts were corrupted by orthodox churchmen in the 4th and 5th centuries.

Typically, modern translations of the Bible such as the RSV, NRSV, NAB, NIV, ESV, NASB, REB, NEB, etc., have followed since the time of the ERV what is known as an eclectic text. The eclectic text gives more weight to a handful of very old manuscripts, most notably Codex Vaticanicus and Codex Siniaticus, and a few others. The net result of this textual theory is to delete several passages, found not only in the King James tradition, but in the Douay Rheims tradition as well.

But other scholars, some who are Eastern Orthodox, and some who are conservative evangelicals have argued that majority manuscripts are more reliable than previously thought, showing remarkable agreement. Traditionalist Catholics also prefer the Douay Rheims and Confraternity Versions, which are based on the Latin Vulgate.

The majority manuscripts bear a close similarity to the traditional Byzantine Text, which has been the official text of the Greek Speaking Churches. The Church of Constantinople updated and revised the Byzantine Text in 1912.

For a more in depth scholarly article on these issues, see the essay, “Which Bible Should I use?” by Bishop Isaiah of the Greek Orthodox Diocese, at the following link: geocities.com/trvalentine/orthodox/bible_texts.html

To buy an excellent version of the New Testament from the 1912 version of the Byzantine Text, see these two links:

From Amazon: amazon.com/Orthodox-New-Testament-Translated-Leatherette/dp/0944359256/ref=pd_sim_b_1/104-6219538-4193543

or direct from the publisher:
holyapostlesconvent.org/HacWebStore/advanced_search_result.php
keywords=new+testament&osCsid=9d206409bdac68d979db9acb60d9bf87

The KJV and Douay Rheims keep several other phrases that are often dropped in more recent versions, that should not be.

I want to be clear here, I am not a supporter of King James-only-ism or Douay-Rheims-only-ism at all; I simply believe that the eclectic text is too skeptical, as Bishop Isaiah’s article points out, and that traditional textual traditions from the Byzantine Text and the Latin Vulgate are much more reliable. As such, nowadays I prefer to Douay-Rheims and Confraternity Versions, which are based on the Latin Vulgate, as well as the Third Millennium Bible and Orthodox New Testament, both of which are updates of the King James.
 
If Jerome were an English speaker in our generation, he’d give us a brand new English translation to outdo all modern ones before it.
 
Why is the NAB given such a difficult time? I’m asking honestly as I am a convert as of the Easter Vigil, but I’ve been reading the NAB for some time now and was a Lutheran who read the Bible in different versions beforehand.

I would argue that the KJV is one of the poorer translations. I know it is almost revered by Protestants, but truthfully it was translated at a time when scholarship of Ancient Hebrew and especially Aramaic was far inferior to what it is now.

Regardless of the KJV, where does the NAB fail? I’ll grant that gender-neutrality is a bit silly, but we’re not fundamentalists who literally interpret the books anyway. As for the notes, they do tend to be very scholarly.

And in some cases I think the authorship is quite obviously questionable. I don’t think that is necessarily a matter of faith, is it? Take First, Second, and Third John. Quite clearly the author of First and Second John did not write Third John. The same is true of First and Second Peter. The writing styles, tone, and methods are noticably different. On the other hand, it is quite clear that Luke and Acts were written by the same author.

(Please don’t hurt me 🙂 )
 
Why is the NAB given such a difficult time? I’m asking honestly as I am a convert as of the Easter Vigil, but I’ve been reading the NAB for some time now and was a Lutheran who read the Bible in different versions beforehand.

I would argue that the KJV is one of the poorer translations. I know it is almost revered by Protestants, but truthfully it was translated at a time when scholarship of Ancient Hebrew and especially Aramaic was far inferior to what it is now.

Regardless of the KJV, where does the NAB fail? I’ll grant that gender-neutrality is a bit silly, but we’re not fundamentalists who literally interpret the books anyway. As for the notes, they do tend to be very scholarly.

And in some cases I think the authorship is quite obviously questionable. I don’t think that is necessarily a matter of faith, is it? Take First, Second, and Third John. Quite clearly the author of First and Second John did not write Third John. The same is true of First and Second Peter. The writing styles, tone, and methods are noticably different. On the other hand, it is quite clear that Luke and Acts were written by the same author.

(Please don’t hurt me 🙂 )
Vaclav: We will not hurt you! 😉 👍
I hope you all feel free to ask questions here!

Also noting your id Vaclav: do you have Slavic heritage?

First, the NAB:

I can only speak for myself in regard to the NAB. I think the commentary notes are too skeptical, and that translation itself is poor in several places. :mad:

But allow me to refer you to a very devastating and thorough critique of the NAB, which gives several specifics by John Nuehaus in First Things.

He has two articles on “Bible Babel” at the links below that give a much more scholarly and literary critique of the NAB than I can give:

First article, from 2001: firstthings.com/article.php3?id_article=2183&var_recherche=bible+babel

Second article, from 2007:
firstthings.com/article.php3?id_article=66&var_recherche=bible+babel

Now the KJV: I truly believe that the deficencies of the King James have been grossly overstated. :rolleyes:

As a Catholic prefer the Douay-Rheims-Confraternity Bibles.

But as a Byzantine Catholic, who reveres the traditional Byzantine Text which the KJV is based on, I very much like a couple of recent udpated versions based on the KJV, namely the Third Millennium Bible published by Deuel Enterprises, and the Orthodox New Testament (not to be confused with the Orthodox Study Bible) published by Holy Apostles Convent in Colorado.

Again, let me direct you to a thorough and very scholarly article defending the traditional Byzantine Text, and the KJV, by Bishop Isaiah of the Greek Orthodox diocese:

geocities.com/trvalentine/orthodox/bible_texts.html

Vaclav, I do not suggest you are going to go to hell if you continue to use and enjoy the NAB 😃 , but I want to suggest to you that any of these following versions would be 100x better than the NAB:

The Douay Rheims Bible
Confraternity Bible
Revised Standard Version, either original or second edition
Third Millennium Bible
 
If it had nab footnotes it cant be a good bible.

its a paradox in terms…
LOL, indeed. 😛

I had to laugh at this:

**
From Library Journal
Several years ago, the New American Bible was issued as the official Roman Catholic text for public reading. Based on the original languages, it included introductions and notes from a Roman Catholic perspective. Edited by ecumenically recognized Roman Catholic scholars, but deliberately reflecting Roman Catholic teaching, the present volume includes the complete text of the New American Bible, along with updated essays on the Bible generally and guides to individual books. Each of these guides gives the historical background to the book as well as a bibliography for further reading; for the longer books, a section-by-section commentary is offered, often including a discussion of its current, and Christian, relevance.
-Augustine J. Curley, Newark Abbey, N.J.
Copyright 1990 Reed Business Information, Inc. –This text refers to the Hardcover edition.**
 
Why is the NAB given such a difficult time? I’m asking honestly as I am a convert as of the Easter Vigil, but I’ve been reading the NAB for some time now and was a Lutheran who read the Bible in different versions beforehand.
Chances are, since you were Lutheran, you probably used the NIV more than any other version, right? NIV is dynamic equivalence, similar to NAB, only with less inclusive language. I dislike the NIV for the same reasons I dislike the NAB.
I would argue that the KJV is one of the poorer translations. I know it is almost revered by Protestants, but truthfully it was translated at a time when scholarship of Ancient Hebrew and especially Aramaic was far inferior to what it is now.
True. A very literal, formal equivalence Protestant Bible that is readable is the NASB.
Regardless of the KJV, where does the NAB fail?
Inclusive language, bland translation of the Psalms, dynamic equivalence, and questionable footnotes are the problem.
The RSV-CE is a much better translation which lacks all of the above things that I mentioned as problematic.
 
I hope you all feel free to ask questions here!
Also noting your id Vaclav: do you have Slavic heritage?
Thank you. I’m German, literally as I was born there and my mother is German. I’ve lived in the states for some time now. Part of my family is from what used to be Czechoslovakia though.
But allow me to refer you to a very devastating and thorough critique of the NAB, which gives several specifics by John Nuehaus in First Things.
I read the articles and there were some good points. I’m not sure I’d go as far as the author. I certainly don’t think the NAB is an “atrocity.” I agree that inclusive language is a bit silly and probably doesn’t need to be done when translating.

Honestly, I think the best criticism of the NAB is that it is a bit pretentious for America to have its own Catholic Bible anyway. I note that the author of your article said:
Among Catholics subjected to the NAB, and all are now subjected to it
But the truth is that the New Jerusalem Bible is the standard for nearly all English-speaking nations other than the United States. I don’t really mean anything bad by this, other than as a world religion, it would be useful for there to be one standard in each language (or one would think).

Regardless, thank you for the explanations on why the NAB is not preferred by some.
Chances are, since you were Lutheran, you probably used the NIV more than any other version, right? NIV is dynamic equivalence, similar to NAB, only with less inclusive language. I dislike the NIV for the same reasons I dislike the NAB.
Yes, though it wasn’t mandated by the Lutheran church. I simply obtained a really good copy of the NIV with the “apocryphal” books. But before that I used the KJV and New Revised Standard Version as well.

I suppose I need to compare the NAB, NJB and perhaps the Douay Rheims Bible and see the differences. Or maybe it would be easier to just learn Greek or Latin 😉
 
Yes, though it wasn’t mandated by the Lutheran church. I simply obtained a really good copy of the NIV with the “apocryphal” books. But before that I used the KJV and New Revised Standard Version as well.
Well, the Catholic Church doesn’t mandate the NAB for personal use, either. As for the Lutheran Church, I know that there is no particular Bible that is mandated; but every Lutheran parish that I have been in always had the NIV in the rack on the pew.

I actually own a lot of Bibles, Catholic and Protestant. The Catholic Bibles I own are: RSV-CE (my favourite), Douay-Rheims, NRSV-CE, and NAB (my least favourite). The Protestant Bibles I own are: KJV (one with Apocrypha and one without), KJV 1611 reprint, NASB, ESV, and The Message(which I bought because my Catholic Bible study has referenced it). I also own the ecumenical RSV and NRSV (both are Oxford Study Bibles), which contain all of the Apocrypha (the Deuterocanonicals, plus books recognized by the Orthodox Church but not by the Catholic Church).

Interestingly enough, I am away from home this weekend. The Bible in the hotel room where I am staying is the NKJV. I have heard that this translation will be used for the Orthodox Study Bible, expected to be completed next year. The Orthodox Study Bible will have all the books, though, which the NKJV currently does not have.
 
Thanks for all of your comments. I did go ahead and get that study bible. My main reason for getting it was for Bible Study at my parish, which uses the NAB so I wanted a translation to match. As far as my opinion on the NAB goes, personally I don’t think it is too bad. But the RSV-CE or Douay-Rheims are my favorites. When I am just reading to read I love those versions!
 
I think you will be very happy with your purchase. I know I was. It never hurts to have different versions because there are different things to appreciate about each one.

Sincerely,

Maria1212
 
I bought the hardbound edition about a year ago.

I bought it because I wanted to see how Catholics approach Scripture, and I was a little disappointed to see, in the reader’s guide, that they seem to have adopted some views which I had associated with the liberal Protestantism that started to develop in the 19th century.

Nevertheless, I’m still glad I got it. I think you WILL find it useful, and if you are anything like me, it won’t be the only Study Bible you will ever have anyway. 🙂

Oxford has been known for its tough bindings. The hardbound edition that I got, despite its $40 plus price tag, is glue-bound instead of being Smyth-sown like my old KJV (which I have had since 1975, and it is still holding together). Hopefully the leather bound edition is sown.
 
I guess I am a little confused with all of the various translations and what is the best or the worst. I have a RSV-CE published by Scepter. It is not the RSV-2CE. Is it not worthy of retaining or should I pitch it and purchase a RSV-2CE? :confused:
 
I guess I am a little confused with all of the various translations and what is the best or the worst. I have a RSV-CE published by Scepter. It is not the RSV-2CE. Is it not worthy of retaining or should I pitch it and purchase a RSV-2CE? :confused:
I would say that the RSV-CE is better than the RSV-2CE. There is another thread about corrections needed in the RSV-2CE. I would hang on to the RSV-CE until the RSV-3CE is published, correcting the errors of the RSV-2CE.
 
Thanks lak611 for the info, do you know what the errors are in RSV-CE & RSV-2CE. Are they blatant enough to cause major concern, or if a person is aware of them it is not a big enough issue to start replacing bibles? Thanks again
 
I would say that the RSV-CE is better than the RSV-2CE. There is another thread about corrections needed in the RSV-2CE. I would hang on to the RSV-CE until the RSV-3CE is published, correcting the errors of the RSV-2CE.
If they publish a RSV-3CE that won’t be for years surely.

Btw I have a concise RSV-CE (Scepter Publisher) and a Douay Rheims. I wouldn’t mind if there was a Bible which had the Old English style (maybe slightly updated English 🙂 ), translation with the Catholic ‘feel’ like the Douay Rheims, but with the names and places with the modern Bible versions eg Hosea instead of Osee, especially if there is no pronounciation guide at the front of the bible (like the Ignatius Bible).
I like reading the RSV-CE and the Scepter version is great, but I still don’t feel as comfortable with it as maybe some others. I just don’t feel into it as I should. Maybe I should just read more and stop complaining. I have actually gotten hold of a 1966 version of Jerusalem Bible, two actually, (the one with the notes). I enjoy it even though the translation feels “looser” than the RSV-CE and NJB, but I maybe influenced by what I’ve read on the internet. I am glad Mass readings in Australia are based on the Jerusalem Bible transaltion.
 
Thanks again for the info, last night I purchased a RSV-2CE in paperback to keep at my office so that I did not have to carry one back and forth to home. From what I read in the link, I can see where corrections seem to be warranted, however it does not give me a great cause for alarm so that I start pitching bibles. I am a details person myself and can understand the desire to correct the language to obtain a pure translation. Thanks again for all of the information.
 
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