Is this a mortal sin? *guys only*

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I was wondering today, if somone dwells on sexual thoughts for a long time at a time when they are not FULLY awake, say, when they first wake up and are tired…

Does this still make it a mortal sin?
 
+JMJ+
I was wondering today, if somone dwells on sexual thoughts for a long time at a time when they are not FULLY awake, say, when they first wake up and are tired…

Does this still make it a mortal sin?
Did that someone enjoy his thoughts?
Was he questioning/wondering to himself at that time whether what he was doing was wrong or not? (I.e. was he aware or not of what he was doing)

If the answer is “yes” to both questions, then yes that was a mortal sin.

God bless!
 
Ok thanks for your reply’s!

I can’t go to confession, still in RCIA. I guess I just have to pray then!

God bless!
 
I am not convinvced the answer to the OP’s question is as easy as a couple of the posts make out.

For one thing, what if those sexual thoughts are all in respect of my own wife / spouse (for women)?

Secondly, sex can become an addiction for some people. Sexual thoughts will almost certainly make up part of that addiction. A person may very well have the will to want to stop those thoughts, but due to force of habit finds it very difficult.

Pornography itself is an addiction - is the addict necessarily committing a mortal sin, when they desire to recover from that addiction, yet fall short along the way??

A person may indeed “enjoy” those thoughts, but if at the same time deep inside they desire not to be thinking those thoughts, then are they still committing a mortal sin?

To my mind this is a complex question without simple answers…
 
I was wondering today, if somone dwells on sexual thoughts for a long time at a time when they are not FULLY awake, say, when they first wake up and are tired…

Does this still make it a mortal sin?
It would be really a question of “did they wake up”…for in the half-sleep …partial -sleep of waking up or right before falling asleep…one can be in state where one does not have the “full knowledge” …“deliberate consent” for a mortal sin…

Though the fact that one says “for a long time” can mean that one did “wake up” at some point at least…and thus may have committed a mortal sin.

In any case…be sorry …make an act of contrition out of love for God and intend to get to confession when one will be able to…
 
+JMJ+
I am not convinvced the answer to the OP’s question is as easy as a couple of the posts make out.

For one thing, what if those sexual thoughts are all in respect of my own wife / spouse (for women)?
I would assume that it was not about his wife (IF the OP was married) since it was posted here.
Secondly, sex can become an addiction for some people. Sexual thoughts will almost certainly make up part of that addiction. A person may very well have the will to want to stop those thoughts, but due to force of habit finds it very difficult.

Pornography itself is an addiction - is the addict necessarily committing a mortal sin, when they desire to recover from that addiction, yet fall short along the way??

A person may indeed “enjoy” those thoughts, but if at the same time deep inside they desire not to be thinking those thoughts, then are they still committing a mortal sin?

To my mind this is a complex question without simple answers…
All the more to go to confession then. In such cases, the affected individual is too engaged in his sin to determine the mortality of each individual sin, so he would need the guidance of his confessor. However, a lack in action to kick his habit of illicit sexual gratification IS a mortal sin.

God bless!
 
I am not convinvced the answer to the OP’s question is as easy as a couple of the posts make out.

For one thing, what if those sexual thoughts are all in respect of my own wife / spouse (for women)?

Secondly, sex can become an addiction for some people. Sexual thoughts will almost certainly make up part of that addiction. A person may very well have the will to want to stop those thoughts, but due to force of habit finds it very difficult.

Pornography itself is an addiction - is the addict necessarily committing a mortal sin, when they desire to recover from that addiction, yet fall short along the way??

A person may indeed “enjoy” those thoughts, but if at the same time deep inside they desire not to be thinking those thoughts, then are they still committing a mortal sin?

To my mind this is a complex question without simple answers…
I have reflected on this since posting, but must comment that if the three conditions are met then grave sin occurs regardless of extenuating circumstances. “I really want to stop” is not a mitigating factor in the commission of sin, but rather a motivating factor in repentance.
 
I was wondering today, if somone dwells on sexual thoughts for a long time at a time when they are not FULLY awake, say, when they first wake up and are tired…

Does this still make it a mortal sin?
An erotic dream isn’t sinful- people dreaming (at least as far as I know) don’t have full consent of the will. If you’re having an erotic dream and wake up with the thoughts still on your mind, it’s important to turn to prayer immediately. These thoughts become mortally sinful if you dwell on them for very long (I’d say about 20 seconds).

If someone came to your room and said your house was on fire, how quickly would you wake up, become alert, and take the necessary action to save yourself? If a person came to your room and told you that there was a tree burning that touches your house and that if nothing was done it could catch your house on fire, how quickly would you respond? My guess is you would respond to all of those situations quickly and decisively. When you find yourself in a near or proximate occasion of sin (intentionally or not), you should regard your soul even higher than you would your burning house- there can be new houses, but you’ve only got one soul.
 
If you have to ask, then it’s probably not.

That’s my rule of thumb. I don’t know if it’s a good rule of thumb but it makes sense to me.

What constitutes a mortal sin:
  1. Grave matter
  2. Full knowledge (of whether or not what you’re doing is grave)
  3. Full consent (purposely agreeing to committing this sin)
 
+JMJ+

All the more to go to confession then. In such cases, the affected individual is too engaged in his sin to determine the mortality of each individual sin, so he would need the guidance of his confessor. However, a lack in action to kick his habit of illicit sexual gratification IS a mortal sin.

God bless!
I agree with you that a **lack of action to kick the habit **of illicit sexual gratification would constitute a mortal sin.

Implicit in that very statement, however, is the conclusion that the act may in fact happen without a mortal sin (as opposed to a venial sin) being committed. In other words it may happen within the context of a person who is in fact doing everything possible to eliminate the habit. He (she) may have prayed intensely about it for many months. He (she) may be deliberately avoiding any situations that might trigger sexual thoughts. A person may be taking all kinds of steps to avoid falling into that sin, yet, as is so often the case with our weak human nature, may still fall short - perhaps even for a couple of minutes at a time.

So if a person is constantly fighting this battle, irrespective of whether they be half-asleep or wide awake, and for a second or two their mind veers towards thoughts of a sexual nature, but they then immediately try to switch away from those thoughts, have they committed a mortal sin? Their overall intention surely has been to avoid the thoughts.

Does just one second of weakness followed by an immediate telling off constitue a mortal sin? What if it takes 5 seconds to pull one’s mind away? 10 seconds? A minute? Are we now going to determine a mortal sin by how long the thought is considered for? I think we would surely agree that this would be absurd and would not be the way God looks at it.

Again, I would argue that God would likely look at the entire state of mind and heart of the person concerned (as he does with every sin). I believe God would recognise the efforts a person is going to to rid themselves of the habit, and yes, I believe that sins themselves may be mitigated when considering the entire context within which the act occurs (intention, culpability etc).

This is a complex sliding scale issue, not a black and white issue.

I believe that there are many people out there who fight a very genuine battle to keep their minds clear of illicit sexual thoughts, but who find themselves falling short to differing degrees of regularity.

Does a weak moment of the mind within the context of this battle constitute full consent (ie purposely agreeing to commit the sin)? I would humbly submit that there are most certainly occasions when it does not…
 
+JMJ+
I agree with you that a **lack of action to kick the habit **of illicit sexual gratification would constitute a mortal sin.

Implicit in that very statement, however, is the conclusion that the act may in fact happen without a mortal sin (as opposed to a venial sin) being d. In other words it may happen within the context of a person who is in fact doing everything possible to eliminate the habit. He (she) may have prayed intensely about it for many months. He (she) may be deliberately avoiding any situations that might trigger sexual thoughts. A person may be taking all kinds of steps to avoid falling into that sin, yet, as is so often the case with our weak human nature, may still fall short - perhaps even for a couple of minutes at a time.

So if a person is constantly fighting this battle, irrespective of whether they be half-asleep or wide awake, and for a second or two their mind veers towards thoughts of a sexual nature, but they then immediately try to switch away from those thoughts, have they committed a mortal sin? Their overall intention surely has been to avoid the thoughts.

Does just one second of weakness followed by an immediate telling off constitue a mortal sin? What if it takes 5 seconds to pull one’s mind away? 10 seconds? A minute? Are we now going to determine a mortal sin by how long the thought is considered for? I think we would surely agree that this would be absurd and would not be the way God looks at it.

Again, I would argue that God would likely look at the entire state of mind and heart of the person concerned (as he does with every sin). I believe God would recognise the efforts a person is going to to rid themselves of the habit, and yes, I believe that sins themselves may be mitigated when considering the entire context within which the act occurs (intention, culpability etc).

This is a complex sliding scale issue, not a black and white issue.

I believe that there are many people out there who fight a very genuine battle to keep their minds clear of illicit sexual thoughts, but who find themselves falling short to differing degrees of regularity.

Does a weak moment of the mind within the context of this battle constitute full consent (ie purposely agreeing to commit the sin)? I would humbly submit that there are most certainly occasions when it does not…
Which is why I had said it is best for such a person to seek “the guidance of his confessor.” Can a person in such a state profit from such an internal debate like what you detailed here on his own? He would be in no mental condition to profit from it. He will need help.

God bless!
 
+JMJ+

Which is why I had said it is best for such a person to seek “the guidance of his confessor.” Can a person in such a state profit from such an internal debate like what you detailed here on his own? He would be in no mental condition to profit from it. He will need help.

God bless!
Agreed entirely Nuntym. I was just elaborating a little further on the scenarios that may blur the line between what is and isn’t mortal sin.

Going to confession is certainly the way to go in the case of someone who battles with this issue.

Have a blessed Christmas.

Patrick
 
I was wondering today, if somone dwells on sexual thoughts for a long time at a time when they are not FULLY awake, say, when they first wake up and are tired…

Does this still make it a mortal sin?
This is a sort of question that I constantly struggle with. How does sleepiness affect my ability to act willfully and with knowledge? Also, even when I’m fully awake, I always wonder “did I will that sexual thought, or did I push it out of my mind as soon as I realized it was there?”

A priest I’ve confessed to only a few times always tells me I’m being scrupulous when I confess lustful thoughts. He doesn’t know me or my situation all that well, but I wonder if he has some insight and is giving me good advice or not. Is he being wise or is he just overly permissive?

Here is a section from the Catechism on masturbation which is pertinent here:
2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure…138
To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.
So if masturbation, which is certainly an evil act and takes some doing (you aren’t going to be able to “accidentally” do it) can have it’s moral culpability reduced based upon certain circumstances, it stands to reason that lustful thoughts could too (if I understand correctly, sexual thoughts aren’t sinful at all if you didn’t will them). Whether culpability was reduced or nullified in your situation is hard to say. Although, I tend to lean toward Daegus’ advice. If you have to ask, it probably isn’t.

There is certainly a fine line between scrupulosity and over-permissiveness that I find maddening.
 
+JMJ+
Agreed entirely Nuntym. I was just elaborating a little further on the scenarios that may blur the line between what is and isn’t mortal sin.

Going to confession is certainly the way to go in the case of someone who battles with this issue.

Have a blessed Christmas.

Patrick
No prob, Patrick. I hope your Christmas was wonderful! 🙂

God bless!
 
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