Is this all the CC has?

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Like what?
Trinity.

Mary not a regular person

Saints only being “special people”

There are other areas, but these are very cut and dry from what is in the Bible.

I know their are pages if not volumes to justify these changes, but I don’t but it.
 
Trinity.

Mary not a regular person

Saints only being “special people”

There are other areas, but these are very cut and dry from what is in the Bible.

I know their are pages if not volumes to justify these changes, but I don’t but it.
Catholic Doctrinal Concordance
Contents God, One and True God’s nature, Trinity, and Jesus

God’s Creatures Mary, Man, Angels, Saints, and the devil

God’s Remedies Grace, The Church, Scripture, and Sacraments

God’s Gifts Faith, Hope, Love, and Prayer

The Last Things Death, Purgatory, Heaven, and Hell

Additional Topics Apologetics, and topics of dispute with other Christians
Links Great Catholic links
infpage.com/concordance/

Welcome to EarlyChurchFathers
earlychurchfathers.org/

Faith of the Early Fathers, v I, II, and III
By William A. Jurgens.
In this three-volume set the early church fathers speak for themselves. Volume I covers the Pre-Nicene and Nicene eras; Volume II covers the Post-Nicene era through St. Jerome; and Volume III covers St. Augustine to the end of the patristic period
Faith of the Early Fathers
amazon.com/Faith-Early-Fathers-Vol-1/dp/0814604323
 
That all comes down to how history is viewed.
This is very true. It also can depend on the “desired outcome”. If you want “anti-this or that history”…you can find “landfills” full of it with little trouble…and much of it on the internet. I can direct you to any number of sites that trash just about any religion you can name.
This site is somewhat telling of a certain “viewpoint”… exmormon.org/mormon/mormon327.htm… Now, frankly…how much of it said there is “true” is debatable on both sides of the coin. Certainly there is a great deal of “hyperbole”.

I guess my point here is that we all live in glass houses to some extent…if you know what I mean. Its better to ask a question, and either accept the answer at face value, or offer polite debate, rather than throw a rock…right? I think so. 👍

Personally, I prefer “secular” sources for history. There is less likelihood of “religious tainting” of history.
 
Trinity.

Mary not a regular person
Rather than use the Catholic proofs that we embrace, I will use the following…and I believe that Mormons do place some stock in the teachings of Martin Luther, or am I wrong? At any rate, here is Martin Luther’s “take” on “The Blesses Virgin Mary”:

davidmacd.com/catholic/martin_luther_on_mary.htm

And further down that page you can read the documented comments of other “Reformists” such as John Calvin, Huldreich Zwingli, Heinrich Bullinger, and John Wesley.

Hmmm, makes you wonder…how such great “enemies” of the Catholic Church could be so “supportive” of Catholic Beliefs, eh?
Saints only being “special people”
Do you believe that saints are just common ordinary and everyday people? Do you not believe that they are in fact special people who have lived exemplary Christian lives, even to the point of suffering martyrdom for Christ? Some denominations think anyone who “believes” is a saint… We just place a much higher value on the word. Perhaps going to this site and reading about some of the saints… catholic.org/saints/ will give you an idea about why they are “special”.
There are other areas, but these are very cut and dry from what is in the Bible.
Just because it does not appear in the Bible, does not mean it is false. For instance…there is nothing in the Bible alluding to Mormonism, or many things about Mormon beliefs…so does that mean that Mormons are wrong?
I know their are pages if not volumes to justify these changes, but I don’t but it.
That you don’t “buy it” (I think thats what you meant to say?)…has little to do with it all. Again, if you came to learn, then you need to open your mind to what is presented and actually take some time to read the information presented and give it some consideration…and if you still don’t buy it…thats ok. God gave man “free will”…and we are all free to exercise it. 😃
 
how about if we see history through the eyes of christian man, women and children being slaughtered by muslims, romans and many others? how about churches being destroyed?

*“I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church.”
Saint Augustine (354-430), Against the Letter of Mani, 5,6, 397 A.D… *
How about if we see it from BOTH sides.? Then there MAY not be wars. 😉
 
Trinity.

Mary not a regular person

Saints only being “special people”

There are other areas, but these are very cut and dry from what is in the Bible.

I know their are pages if not volumes to justify these changes, but I don’t but it.
trinity is affirmed in the testimony of the witnesses to teh BoM and in the BoM itself. a case could be made for D&C support from the original if we use the LoF.

Mary what is the question? immaculate conception? i think the bible is very clear on her special status. you have to understand revelations in context though. add Luke’s account of the angelus to revelations sections on mary and you get the full picture.

what is your deal with the saints? do you not believe that JS approval is required to go to the celestial kingdom? do you not believe that ALL “saints” are busy in the spirit world doing god’s work? what about john and the three nephites? you might want to read the biblical account of the folks who were blessed when peter’s shadow came over them.
/
so where is there a specific difference from the bible
 
Even a disciple of John, Ignatius of Antioch, says Jesus is God and was One with the Father from all eternity:

“There is one Physician who is possessed both of flesh and spirit; both made and not made; God existing in flesh; true life in death; both of Mary and of God; first possible and then impossible, even Jesus Christ our Lord." *Ignatius, To the Ephesians, 7 (c. A.D. 110).

*"[T]o the Church at Ephesus in Asia . . . chosen through true suffering by the will of the Father in Jesus Christ our God" (Letter to the Ephesians 1 [A.D. 110]).

“Jesus Christ . . . was with the Father before the beginning of time, and in the end was revealed. . . . Jesus Christ . . . came forth from one Father and is with and has gone to one [Father]. . … [T]here is one God, who has manifested himself by Jesus Christ his Son, who is his eternal Word, not proceeding forth from silence, and who in all things pleased him that sent him” (Epistle to the Magnesians 6-8 [A.D. 107]).
Mary not a regular person
You think giving birth to God, the Word made flesh, is something that happens to “regular” people? The Blessed Virgin’s uniqueness tells us more about the nature of her Son than it does about her.
Saints only being “special people”
All people in Heaven are saints, the saints* you* are referring to are people whom we can be certain are in Heaven and are held up as models for us to live Christian lives.
 
Jesus is the second Person of the Trinity:

“And further, my brethren, if the Lord [Jesus] endured to suffer for our soul, he being the Lord of all the world, *to whom God said *at the foundation of the world, ‘Let us make man after our image, and after our likeness,’ understand how it was that he endured to suffer at the hand of men” (Letter of Barnabas 5 [A.D. **74] emphasis added).

I have already given some examples from St. Ignatius of Antioch, that prove that the Apostolic Fathers believed Jesus was God. Here is his connection to the Apostles:

“St. Ignatius was a convert to the Faith and a disciple of St. John the Evangelist. St. Chrysostom says that St. Peter appointed him Bishop of Antioch, which See he governed for forty years.”

catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=677

St. Polycarp was also a disciple of John the Apostle.

“Polycarp, bishop of Smyrna (modern Izmir, Turkey), disciple of St. John the Apostle and friend of St. Ignatius of Antioch was a revered Christian leader during the first half of the second century.”

We can learn a lot about the early Church through reading the Martyrdom of Polycarp, one of the works of the Apostolic Fathers (a small collection of Early Christian authors who lived and wrote in the second half of the 1st century and the first half of the 2nd century, the generation that had personal contact with the Twelve Apostles), one of the very few genuine such writings from the actual age of the persecutions. The apostolic fathers include St. Clement of Rome,(our fourth Pope: newadvent.org/cathen/04012c.htm ) St. Ignatius of Antioch, and St. Polycarp of Smyrna.

Here’s an article on** THE CHURCH OF THE EARLY FATHERS** (in the time-period you claim was pre-apostasy):

catholic.com/thisrock/1996/9606fea1.asp
 
Even a disciple of John, Ignatius of Antioch, says Jesus is God and was One with the Father from all eternity:

“There is one Physician who is possessed both of flesh and spirit; both made and not made; God existing in flesh; true life in death; both of Mary and of God; first possible and then impossible, even Jesus Christ our Lord." *Ignatius, To the Ephesians, 7 (c. A.D. 110).

*"[T]o the Church at Ephesus in Asia . . . chosen through true suffering by the will of the Father in Jesus Christ our God" (Letter to the Ephesians 1 [A.D. 110]).

“Jesus Christ . . . was with the Father before the beginning of time, and in the end was revealed. . . . Jesus Christ . . . came forth from one Father and is with and has gone to one [Father]. . … [T]here is one God, who has manifested himself by Jesus Christ his Son, who is his eternal Word, not proceeding forth from silence, and who in all things pleased him that sent him” (Epistle to the Magnesians 6-8 [A.D. 107]).

You think giving birth to God, the Word made flesh, is something that happens to “regular” people? The Blessed Virgin’s uniqueness tells us more about the nature of her Son than it does about her.

All people in Heaven are saints, the saints* you* are referring to are people whom we can be certain are in Heaven and are held up as models for us to live Christian lives.
The “Saints” practice is not consistent with the Bible.

I think Mary was a very normal though also very good person. I’ve seen nothing beyond some peoples opinions that it is any different.

We could probably spend years on the issue of the nature of God, but nothing in the Bible convinces me that God is a shapeless mass that talks to himself as is commonly described.
 
The “Saints” practice is not consistent with the Bible.

I think Mary was a very normal though also very good person. I’ve seen nothing beyond some peoples opinions that it is any different.

We could probably spend years on the issue of the nature of God, but nothing in the Bible convinces me that God is a shapeless mass that talks to himself as is commonly described.
what “saints” practice are you referring to? (just want to be clear)

hmmmm. well i guess it depends on how you interpret the book of revelations. but the early christians were pretty unanimous on Mary being unique as the theotokos.

you are misrepresenting the trinity with that oversimplification. hypostasis doesn’t make God less than three persons. it just explains the relationship that allows them to be one God. as far as shapeless mass…i think God is beyond what we understand as mass. even mormon scriptures described this until the 1900’s. i find nothing in the bible that causes me to limit God to literally “one of us”.
 
We could probably spend years on the issue of the nature of God, but nothing in the Bible convinces me that God is a shapeless mass that talks to himself as is commonly described.
The Trinity is fully Scriptural.

**1 John 5:7 **

And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one.

How one can read this as “a shapeless mass that talks to (H)imself” is completely beyond reason.
 
The Trinity is fully Scriptural.

**1 John 5:7 **

And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one.

How one can read this as “a shapeless mass that talks to (H)imself” is completely beyond reason.
Um. That’s the unfortunate “Johannine comma.” It does not appear in the most reliable manuscripts and seem to be a mediaeval insertion. The DO appear in the KJV, however.
 
Um. That’s the unfortunate “Johannine comma.” It does not appear in the most reliable manuscripts and seem to be a mediaeval insertion. The DO appear in the KJV, however.
Hmm, this is from the 1899 Douay-Rheims. :o
 
Hmm, this is from the 1899 Douay-Rheims. :o
Also based on older manuscripts and not on the earlier ones discovered subsequently. Don’t forget, if you have the Challoner Douay-Rheims, Challoner relied heavily on the KJV – just as the original team that translated the KJV leaned on the Douay-Rheims New Testament that had been published a decade or so before . . .
 
Hmm, this is from the 1899 Douay-Rheims. :o
Erasmus’s third edition of 1522 contained one truly unfortunate innovation: The “Three Heavenly Witnesses” in 1 John 5:7-8. These were derived from the recently-written Codex 61, and (as the famous story goes) included by Erasmus “for the sake of his oath.” Sadly, they have been found in almost every TR edition since.

skypoint.com/~waltzmn/TR.html
 
Once again, I do not see the purpose of all the squabbling about particular beliefs and the sense of “I’m right and so you’re wrong”

IF you have a personal relationship with God, let Him guide you.

If you do not have this personal relationship-figure out why that is and fix it.

God is the source of life. God is love.
If you do not love others of different faiths, do not expect to be received into God’s kingdom.

For me, God’s kingdom is available to me-here and now-and I strive to do all I can to achieve union with God as I live here on this earth.
 
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