Is this all the CC has?

[RebeccaJ]

Hmm, this is from the 1899 Douay-Rheims.

bible-researcher.com/comma.html

I recommend the New American Bible.

 

[Jimdandy]

Just for clarification the three that testify in heaven

the water and the blood is Jesus, and wherever Jesus is, so is His Father.The Spirit is the Love that passes continually between them.

God is love-strive to know God as perfectly as an imperfect human can-

For with God, all things are possible.

 

[Eden]

Once again, I do not see the purpose of all the squabbling about particular beliefs and the sense of “I’m right and so you’re wrong”

The question of whether or not Jesus Christ is God is more than a “squabble”.

 

[Eden]

The “Saints” practice is not consistent with the Bible.

It’s very Biblical. Take a look at how much of the Bible supports Saints and Intercessory Prayer:

scripturecatholic.com/saints.html

What is your interpretation of what is described in Rev. 8:3-4, for instance?

I think Mary was a very normal though also very good person. I’ve seen nothing beyond some peoples opinions that it is any different.

“I think” isn’t a solid argument. And “some people” includes Early Church Fathers, who were much closer to the source than you and I.

We could probably spend years on the issue of the nature of God, but nothing in the Bible convinces me that God is a shapeless mass that talks to himself as is commonly described.

Your understanding of the Trinity is off. God is three distinct Persons in One God. Three Persons, One God. They are all three co-equal, co-eternal, One God. So, I would hardly characterize the First Person in the Trinity talking to the Second Person in the Trinity as “talking to Himself”. You have greatly missed the mark on this one.

I believe (amongst several theories you’ve proposed) that you said the “apostasy” may have occurred after the deaths of the Apostles and their immediate disciples. Well, you haven’t answered as to whether or not you believe the disciples of the Apostle John, for instance St. Ignatius of Antioch, were teaching heretical ideas. I have shown that St. Ignatius of Antioch taught that Jesus is God. So, was he an apostate?

 

[wisdomseeker]

Once again, I do not see the purpose of all the squabbling about particular beliefs and the sense of “I’m right and so you’re wrong”

IF you have a personal relationship with God, let Him guide you.

If you do not have this personal relationship-figure out why that is and fix it.

God is the source of life. God is love.
If you do not love others of different faiths, do not expect to be received into God’s kingdom.

For me, God’s kingdom is available to me-here and now-and I strive to do all I can to achieve union with God as I live here on this earth.

“If the people hear the horn and ignore the warning and the enemy comes and takes them,
they will be responsible for their own deaths.”
Ezekiel 33:4

2Peter 3:15-17, “So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures.
You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability.”

1John 4:6, “We are of God. Whoever knows God listens to us, and he who is not of God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.”

Ezekiel 33:8-9, “Suppose I say to a wicked person, ‘You wicked person, you will certainly die,’ and you say nothing to warn him to change his ways. That wicked person will die because of his sin, and I will hold you responsible for his death. But if you warn a wicked person to turn from his ways and he doesn’t turn from them, then he will die because of his sin. However, you will save yourself.”

***“I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church.”
Saint Augustine (354-430), Against the Letter of Mani, 5,6, 397 A.D… ***

 

[Eden]

No, there’s a little more. Check this out:

youtube.com/watch?v=hl-08atFqzc

youtube.com/watch?v=lqfn75wgfYA

The first video was so moving, it gave me chills. It was just really well done. Thanks for the link!

I love the song in the second video from Dana. She sang that song at the Mass at Mile High Stadium in Denver at WYD in 1993 and, in fact, it was the theme of WYD that year. I have wanted to find a site to download it (without success so far). If anyone knows where I can get it, please let me know. Thanks.

 

[elts1956]

“If the people hear the horn and ignore the warning and the enemy comes and takes them,
they will be responsible for their own deaths.”
Ezekiel 33:4

2Peter 3:15-17, “So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures.
You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability.”

1John 4:6, “We are of God. Whoever knows God listens to us, and he who is not of God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.”

Ezekiel 33:8-9, “Suppose I say to a wicked person, ‘You wicked person, you will certainly die,’ and you say nothing to warn him to change his ways. That wicked person will die because of his sin, and I will hold you responsible for his death. But if you warn a wicked person to turn from his ways and he doesn’t turn from them, then he will die because of his sin. However, you will save yourself.”

***“I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church.”
Saint Augustine (354-430), Against the Letter of Mani, 5,6, 397 A.D… ***

Jesus also said, “The kingdom of God is within you”.

 

[Eden]

Jesus also said, “The kingdom of God is within you”.

“Is the Kingdom of God the Church or Not?”

Here:

chnetwork.org/forums/view_topic.php?id=4047&forum_id=19&jump_to=33669

Jesus said his Church would be “the light of the world.” He then noted that **“a city set on a hill cannot be hid” **(Matt. 5:14). This means his Church is a visible organization. It must have characteristics that clearly identify it and that distinguish it from other churches.

catholic.com/library/Pillar.asp

 

[elts1956]

“Is the Kingdom of God the Church or Not?”

Here:

chnetwork.org/forums/view_topic.php?id=4047&forum_id=19&jump_to=33669

Jesus said his Church would be “the light of the world.” He then noted that **“a city set on a hill cannot be hid” **(Matt. 5:14). This means his Church is a visible organization. It must have characteristics that clearly identify it and that distinguish it from other churches.

catholic.com/library/Pillar.asp

I think the Kingdom of God is within and without. We use the “Within” to understand the “Without”, the Church. Will check out your sites. Thanks.

 

[Eden]

I think the Kingdom of God is within and without. We use the “Within” to understand the “Without”, the Church. Will check out your sites. Thanks.

I’m in complete agreement.

 

[cgunning]

The Catholic Church is Christ’s true Church. This can be seen from the time of the Apostles, to those whom they appointed bishops, like Linus or Clement, and on down the line. If you have a specific question about a particular era or facet of the Church, feel free to ask.

UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH,PAISE AND GLORY TO YOU OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST ,FOR GIVING US THE APOSTLE ,PETER, AS OUR FOUNDATION IN THE LORD OUR ONE TRUE GOD,AMEN BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN CHRIST :shamrock2:

 

[elts1956]

In other words whoever last the longest wins?

Is this a game to you? The Church will last longer than you.

 

[teancum79]

It’s very Biblical. Take a look at how much of the Bible supports Saints and Intercessory Prayer:

scripturecatholic.com/saints.html

What is your interpretation of what is described in Rev. 8:3-4, for instance?

“I think” isn’t a solid argument. And “some people” includes Early Church Fathers, who were much closer to the source than you and I.

Your understanding of the Trinity is off. God is three distinct Persons in One God. Three Persons, One God. They are all three co-equal, co-eternal, One God. So, I would hardly characterize the First Person in the Trinity talking to the Second Person in the Trinity as “talking to Himself”. You have greatly missed the mark on this one.

I believe (amongst several theories you’ve proposed) that you said the “apostasy” may have occurred after the deaths of the Apostles and their immediate disciples. Well, you haven’t answered as to whether or not you believe the disciples of the Apostle John, for instance St. Ignatius of Antioch, were teaching heretical ideas. I have shown that St. Ignatius of Antioch taught that Jesus is God. So, was he an apostate?

You’re version of the trinity is not the one taught by the traditional catholics I have known.

Saints is the term used to discribe the followers Christ. Latter in the CC it become a special title for some people.

I doubt that Ignatius was, but having minimal info on the issue I can not say for sure.

 

[teancum79]

Is this a game to you? The Church will last longer than you.

In a mortal sense sure it will I’m not even 30 yet it has already out lasted me. No this is not a game matters of faith and are very important.

 

[teancum79]

Rather than use the Catholic proofs that we embrace, I will use the following…and I believe that Mormons do place some stock in the teachings of Martin Luther, or am I wrong? At any rate, here is Martin Luther’s “take” on “The Blesses Virgin Mary”:

davidmacd.com/catholic/martin_luther_on_mary.htm

And further down that page you can read the documented comments of other “Reformists” such as John Calvin, Huldreich Zwingli, Heinrich Bullinger, and John Wesley.

Hmmm, makes you wonder…how such great “enemies” of the Catholic Church could be so “supportive” of Catholic Beliefs, eh?

Do you believe that saints are just common ordinary and everyday people? Do you not believe that they are in fact special people who have lived exemplary Christian lives, even to the point of suffering martyrdom for Christ? Some denominations think anyone who “believes” is a saint… We just place a much higher value on the word. Perhaps going to this site and reading about some of the saints… catholic.org/saints/ will give you an idea about why they are “special”.

Just because it does not appear in the Bible, does not mean it is false. For instance…there is nothing in the Bible alluding to Mormonism, or many things about Mormon beliefs…so does that mean that Mormons are wrong?

That you don’t “buy it” (I think thats what you meant to say?)…has little to do with it all. Again, if you came to learn, then you need to open your mind to what is presented and actually take some time to read the information presented and give it some consideration…and if you still don’t buy it…thats ok. God gave man “free will”…and we are all free to exercise it.

Saints where people folloowing Christ. No better or worse than any other church goer today.

Many LDS beliefs are alluded to in the Bible. In fact I knew of very few that are not.

The reformist where trying to fix what was broken that they still believed many of the CC’s teachings does = those teachings being right.

 

[mercygate]

"Eden:

God is three distinct Persons in One God. Three Persons, One God. They are all three co-equal, co-eternal, One God.

You’re version of the trinity is not the one taught by the traditional catholics I have known.

Teaancum, Eden’s terce definition of the Trinity seems pretty orthodox to me. He left out “consubstantial” but otherwise, nothing is contrary to Catholic teaching.

Saints is the term used to discribe the followers Christ. Latter in the CC it become a special title for some people.

We can take up a discussion on the word “saint” elsewhere. We use it in more than one way. Canonized Saints are those recognized to have lived their faith with heroic virtue. Non-canonized saints are those who are in Heaven but have not been declared officially to be there. The word “saint” as used in the KJV comes from the Greek word “hagios” – holy ones. That word is also used in more than one way. People get all huffy over nothing when it comes to “saints.”

I doubt that Ignatius was, but having minimal info on the issue I can not say for sure.

You doubt that Ignatius was “apostate?” If I were a Mormon he would be close to the top of my “apostate” list.

 

[teancum79]

Like I said I don’t have a ton of info. I would want to learn a lot more about who he was and what he taught before putting him in a camp.

LDS believe that Jesus is God (the Son). So that one teaching does not cause a problem.

 

[sambos671]

I’m trying to understand the CC better. I’ve lost count of how many people tell me that they have facts, proof and evidance that they’ve been around for 2k years. I’m trying to understand if thats the core you guys really teach as being “why we are right”.

Read the Bible. Then read the early church fathers. Then read the catachism of the catholic church. Then read about the lives of the saints. Then read about each of the church councils. Then compare with history. Then go to mass. Then meet with people who have special instructional studies. There are many things you can do to find out about the Catholic Church. This is just one forum.

 

[mercygate]

LDS believe that Jesus is God (the Son). So that one teaching does not cause a problem.

Do Mormons believe that the Son is eternally begotten and of the same substance as the Father? Christians believe that the Son is eternally begotten [in the beginning was the Word] of the Father but that Jesus, the Incarnate Son of God entered history in human flesh at the Annunciation.

 

[Ted_in_Charlott]

Is this all the LDS Church has:

1)The book of Mormon was written on gold tablets in a language called reformed Egyptian. This language is regarded by scholars to be a fraud:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reformed_Egyptian

1. The book was a fraud perpetuated by Joseph Smith and was based on a book called View of the Hebrews:
   en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Book_of_Mormon
2. The Whitmer witnesses were later excommunicated by Smith bringing into question their witness, and another person by the name of Steven Burnett is sais to have been told by one of the three witnesses en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Harris_%28Latter_Day_Saints%29 that the 8 were coerced.
3. The same Harris, one of the 3 witnesses, " But, he was a great man for seeing spooks" ibid.
4. Joseph Smith lent out 116 of the original transcription and they here lost by Harris, after which the original “translation” stones were not used, but a seer stone was used instead:
   en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_of_Joseph_Smith%2C_Jr._from_1827_to_1830

And that is only 20 minutes of research from me on a subject I have no knowledge. So without being to overly critical of the OP and trying to be charitable, I would think that the reliability of the Roman Catholic Church looks signifigantly better than the LDS Church’s founder and founding documents.

Peace