Is this idea stupidity personified or not?

[JimO]

I don’t like the idea. I mean, imagine a world in which your concept does in fact take place and praying to oneself for intercession from Heaven is a common practice. Now imagine you praying to yourself, but getting back no answer. Now ***that ***wouldn’t be a good sign!

Yeah, imagine finding that every time you pray you get hot flashes, but then you realize that your future self is in hell, so you reform your life and the prayers start getting answered and you realize that you have shifted the time-space continuum and your future self is now in heaven, but you get complacent and arrogant because all your prayers are answered and the hot flashes come back…whew…I’m going back to the club threads…my brain hurts.

 

[holy_wood]

I am confident that I am correct, just as I always am confident that I am correct because I am a little bit of a jerk like that . But I do have poor argumentation/apologetic skills, and I also think it’s good to leave open the possibility of being wrong incase I have to eat my poorly written words.

I do think that the saints around the heavenly throne are not traversing time and that any saint that is there goes there at a given time once and only once and until that time is had, it hasn’t happened nor will it repeat itself.

If your idea is true it leaves an open loop that self defeats. If you can go back in time to alter your own actions, that could affect what time or how you enter heaven where you can go back to help yourself the first time you helped yourself would be negated so you could never do it. Nope, it doesn’t work like that.

It is the age old arguments of the impossibility of time travel. If you go back in time and thwart the making of the time machine what would happen to you? You’d cease to exist in the present that is the future of the time making machine guy. You can’t be both existent and non-existent at the same time. But I have sat through some pretty bad elementary school plays where I really wished I could be, or be and not be, however that works.

I get that I enter eternity at a particular moment in time but once I am in eternity I am no longer bound by time right. Its an either/or.

In Heaven I’m either free from the constraints of space and time or I am not. What you describe above is a paradox but that paradox has/can never be tested also since I am in Heaven I think that I can escape it…

Anywayz, I have to go to work now and I probably won’t get back on the computer until tommorrow so all you people have fun conversing this topic without me. I’ll miss you.:crying:

BYE.

 

[b_justb]

holy_wood:

I get that I enter eternity at a particular moment in time but once I am in eternity I am no longer bound by time right. Its an either/or.

You are bound by time, you are never free from it. Human souls are not infinite, they are finite. They have a definite beginning. Before your dad’s sperm met up with your moms egg in a certain moment in time you were not. Now that you are you will always be, but you have not always been. You will have a body in heaven, we are body and soul both. Christ has a physical glorified body in heaven, so will you. A body that is confined by space and time.

holy_wood:

In Heaven I’m either free from the constraints of space and time or I am not. What you describe above is a paradox but that paradox has/can never be tested also since I am in Heaven I think that I can escape it…

Right, you are not free fromn those contraints. And you wouldn’t want to escaoe heaven anyway

 

[holy_wood]

Jeremiah 1:5
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I dedicated you, a prophet to the nations I appointed you."

 

[b_justb]

**Jeremiah 1:5
**“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I dedicated you, a prophet to the nations I appointed you.”

God showing us He is omniscient, yes. No problems with that.

 

[LilyM]

What someone who has been perfected by Christ fails to show sympathy.:dts:

Perish the thought.

I rather think that even the perfected you in heaven would have absolutely no need, assuming it be possible, to be reminded or asked to intercede for the imperfect schmuck you back on Earth in 2007. If it can be done, it’s being done.

Besides, the Beatific Vision means the hearts, minds and wills of those in heaven are more or less absorbed into those of God - so in that sense every time you pray you’re praying to all the ‘cloud of witnesses’ (saints and angels) in any event.

 

[frnate]

At Mass we Catholics believe that we partake in the same sacrifice at Calvary as the Christians of that day did. We believe this because Christ ascended into Heaven. Since Heaven is not bound by space or time Christ temporal sacrifice covers the sins of all people past, present or future right?

If this reasoning is accurate I wish to know if the following is accurate as well. I was just wondering could I pray to myself then? If Heaven is not bound by space and time that means everybody who will be in Heaven is technically already in Heaven right?

So if I am destined to be in Heaven, then technically I am already in Heaven, that means I can pray to myself for intercession.

Am I wrong?
(p.s. this is summer vacation for me and I can see that I have way to much time on my hands)

While I suppose it may be possible given the aspects of the Eternal Now, it’s just a little too creepy for me

LOL

Peace,
+N

 

[holy_wood]

So is Heaven bound by space and time or not.

This is my point if it is not then when I will see everything that has, is or will happen on Earth. This doesn’t mean I am Omniscient but its only a reflection of the new nature I have taken in Christ.

 

[b_justb]

So is Heaven bound by space and time or not.

This is my point if it is not then when I will see everything that has, is or will happen on Earth. This doesn’t mean I am Omniscient but its only a reflection of the new nature I have taken in Christ.

Of course we need to qualify “space and time” before we can address it. Are they dimensions? Is there an end or a beginning to each? What is time to a being that has no beginning or end? Time only matters to beings that have a finite beginning and or a finite end. If one, like God, has no beginning or end there is no “time” as we would recon it. But if time is a dimension in which events occur or are planned then time matters to God. I think it is the latter, because in scripture appointed times are spoken of in light of the coming of the Son of Man as well as to His return.

What does “space” mean to a being that is omnipresent? Nothing.

But in this thread we are talking about people in heaven and their ability to see past events and act upon them, or intercede for them as if they had not occurred yet, or as if the intercession might assist the person involved in the past event. I still say, “No this does not happen as it makes no sense.”

I can’t pray for me in the past and expect my prayers to be meritorious for events that have already happened and the repercussions of those events is unfolding. If a soul that enjoys the beatific vision has (for sake of argument only) spent 100 “days” in purgatory and now prays for himself in the past hoping the stay in purgatory is lessoned is pointless. The time and space of that purgation has already taken place and it cannot be altered. Because if it were, then your prayer to have it altered would not take place because you didn’t go through the purgation, but you already have gone through which is why you are praying for yourself in the first place. The time line cannot be altered.

 

[Ignatius]

I was just wondering could I pray to myself then?

Am I wrong?

Yes, you are indeed wrong.

 

[holy_wood]

O.K., whatever.

I’m actually tired of discussing this. It was just a thought that popped into my head, but still if we participate in the same sacrifice at calvary because Christ ascended into heaven then it just seemed to me that one might be able to see past, present, and future events when they themselves go to heaven.

Anyways, this was fun.