Is this impolite?

[Anglewannabe]

I was at lunch break with 2 other women and the topic of using up our holidays came up. Me and one women were carrying on about what we were planning on doing on our days off. Then the conversation went like this

Lady 1 (who shared what she did on her vacation) to lady 2 : Where did you go on your holiday?

Lady 2 : No where really

Lady 1 : Well, what did you end up doing

Lady 2 : I don’t want to talk about it

Lady 1 : Sorry you had a bad time

Lady 2 : I never said I had a bad time, I simply said I did not want to talk about it

The topic changed. Later in the day I was alone with lady 1 and she said to me: I can’t imagine what was so horrible that happened on her holidays that she would not want to talk about it’

I responded ‘I really don’t think we can judge someone until we walk in her shoes’

Lady 1 : I have never walked in her shoes so there is no way for me to understand where she is coming from. What possible reason could there be for her to not want to talk about her holidays unless something horrible happened?

me: If it means that much too you, I suggest you talk to her directly. And then I went to my desk

So, my questions is: Is lady 1 out of line? I personally though she was and I felt very protective of lady 2. But at the same time, I did not want to stand up for lady 2 because she was not around and I did not want to get into an argument with lady 1.

Thoughts?

Angie

 

[EasterJoy]

I think Lady 1 ought to be prepared to hear, “What part of ‘I don’t want to talk about it’ was unclear to you?” from Lady 2. That is what she deserved to have you tell her, too, but what you said under the circumstances was just fine. You went to bat for Lady 2 enough for Lady 1 to get the picture.

Why would she not want to talk about her holiday? Let us say the holiday was Christmas. t could be:
a) that she wants to keep her private life private. period.
b) that she thinks Lady 1 wants an invitation to venture an opinion about the holiday of Lady 2, and Lady 2 does not happen to want to hear Lady 1’s opinion about her holiday, so she elects to give her no information
c) that she knows it will drive Lady 1 crazy to ask a question and not have the information forked over
d) she has an actual need to be discrete, such as she was with someone she promised she would not tell someone else she was with, such as with a sister who did not want Mom to know she was in town. (She knows other people can’t be expected to keep your secrets when you don’t.)
e) she was alone, liked it that way, and did not want Lady 1 to try to change that next Christmas
f) she was volunteering to help the less fortunate, and did not want to seem to be fishing for praise
g) She was watching the Heat play LeBron James and the Cavaliers
h) She was doing something that she does not want spread around the company
i) She had her annual Christmas open house, a party for family and private-life friends that no one at the table was or will ever be invited to join
j) She was picked up for a DUI on Christmas Eve and spent Christmas Day in jail
k) Someone she knows was picked up for domestic abuse and she had to bail them out on Christmas Day
l) She was with relatives that she does not want to talk about
m) she thinks it is boring to listen to people talk about their holidays and she does not want to bore people with talk about hers, either
…

I could go on and on, but you get the idea. If I were you, I wouldn’t have wanted to venture the most likely of those reasons, either. When someone needs to have a picture drawn for them, look for that to be a “shoot the messenger” situation. Stay far out of it. If I were Lady 2, I would think you did just fine.

In general, if someone in a conversation doesn’t warm to the topic, just change it. You were there, though, and if you sense that the person being quiet is just fine with that, then don’t feel anxiety to force them to talk more than they want to talk

 

[Anglewannabe]

Thanks for your reply EJ.

I guess the real reason it struck a nerve with me is I have often been in situations where people have criticized my opinions. And I have often felt a total lack of respect for my boundaries.

So when lady 1 said ‘I can’t imagine why someone would not want to talk about blah blah’, I actually heard ‘Lady 1 is the all knowing and if you don’t share lady 1’s opinion you are stupid’

Or more so, what has me angered is the insinuation that something horrible happened when the reality is, perhaps lady 2 just did not want to talk about it.

The more I think of it, for lady 1 to say ‘I haven’t walked in her shoes so I can’t know how she feels’ was a sign of being extremely ignorant and judgemental. Is that wrong of me to conclude?

 

[EasterJoy]

I’d stick with using Lady 2 for your cues. Don’t overthink what is up with Lady 1 too much, except that you don’t want to imitate her and need to be careful about getting her included in some issue you have. She seems like a bulldozer, which means that if you get her pushing for you, you will have to resign yourself to having a path she decides to bulldoze for you.

 

[Mary_Estelle]

I think you did OK. Some people are nosy. Actually a lot of people are nosy! Don’t let it weigh on your mind.

 

[St_Francis]

The one woman was intrusive and other was protecting her boundaries.

Unfortunately, in our FB world not telling people everything they want to know is seen as rude. People who try to maintain privacy are considered to be not “open” or unfriendly.

We really don’t have much in the way of ways to set a boundary in a clear way that others understand as polite. This is why I liked TMI so much–you could stop people from telling you things you didn’t want to hear in a light sort of way (maybe more so for me as a well-past teen years than for a teen?).

We need another lighthearted but clear way to tell people we don’t want to talk about something, like “If I tell you, I’ll have to kill you.” but not quite so dire, iyswim.

 

[Allegra]

I probably would have gone with something other than, “I don’t want to talk about it,” because that phrase does carry the connotation that something bad happened. I would probably have gone with, “Nothing major” or “Just some R and R”.

We can’t really know without hearing the tone of the discussion, but I do know some women who seek attention that way. There’s a lady I work with who goes about very demonstrative that she is unhappy, depressed, exhausted, etc, until someone takes the bait and says “What’s wrong?” Then you usually get some dramatic line like “I don’t want to talk about it!” or “It’s a long story” or the slightly arrogant “You wouldn’t understand!”. Then she’s visably annoyed when the person says, “OK. See you at lunch!”. I personally think the “Guess-why-I’m-upset-game” ought to be beneath grown women but whatever.

 

[Indigo_Cardinal]

I don’t think it was impolite. Lady 2 said she didn’t want to talk about it, and Lady 1 just can’t accept that it’s not her business. Out of curiousity, does Lady 1 have a reputation for being a gossip? Maybe that’s why Lady 2 didn’t want to tell her.

 

[Anglewannabe]

I probably would have gone with something other than, “I don’t want to talk about it,” because that phrase does carry the connotation that something bad happened. I would probably have gone with, “Nothing major” or “Just some R and R”.

We can’t really know without hearing the tone of the discussion, but I do know some women who seek attention that way. There’s a lady I work with who goes about very demonstrative that she is unhappy, depressed, exhausted, etc, until someone takes the bait and says “What’s wrong?” Then you usually get some dramatic line like “I don’t want to talk about it!” or “It’s a long story” or the slightly arrogant “You wouldn’t understand!”. Then she’s visably annoyed when the person says, “OK. See you at lunch!”. I personally think the “Guess-why-I’m-upset-game” ought to be beneath grown women but whatever.

I don’t think lady 1 is an attention seeker. I think she just had quirks (like me) about which she does not like to discuss things. So when she says ‘I don’t want to talk about it’, in my mind it is clear as day the topic should be changed. I have trouble understanding lady 1’s reaction. Thanks for pointing out the other side of the coin

 

[Anglewannabe]

I don’t think it was impolite. Lady 2 said she didn’t want to talk about it, and Lady 1 just can’t accept that it’s not her business. Out of curiousity, does Lady 1 have a reputation for being a gossip? Maybe that’s why Lady 2 didn’t want to tell her.

oops, I think I misworded my question. I was NOT asking if I was impolite. I was asking if lady 1 was impolite. The reason this has me ‘reved up’ so much is I can’t count how many times I was in lady 2’s shoes. And to see it happened to someone else kind of was confirmation that I am not alone in my opinion. If that makes sense

 

[7_Sorrows]

maybe Lady 2 does not like Lady 1 and doesn’t like talking with her or sharing what happened on her personal vacation. at my last job there werr certainly people I did not want to have in depth conversations with. I wouldn’t spend a lot of time worrying about what happened between Lady 1 and Lady 2 in the breakroom. It is unproductive.

 

[EasterJoy]

Lady 1 (who shared what she did on her vacation) to lady 2 : Where did you go on your holiday?
OK so far, since this is an invitation for Lady 2 to talk about herself.
Lady 2 : Nowhere really
A non-committal answer that gives an opportunity for Lady 1 to change the subject if she was just asking about the other person’s holiday to be polite, which Lady 1 might have done because she had just spent time telling the group about her own.
Lady 1 : Well, what did you end up doing
This was fine, although she might wanted to use a tone that was a little less inquisitorial, such as, ‘Holidays near home can be some of the best ones. I hope you found something enjoyable to do.’ The intended message ought to be, ‘No, really, I’d like to hear about you. I didn’t just say that so I wouldn’t feel I was only talking about myself.’
Lady 2 : I don’t want to talk about it
Now she is going beyond ‘we don’t have to talk about this’ to ‘let’s not talk about this.’ That is not a suggestion that ought to be argued with.
Lady 1 : Sorry you had a bad time
This was a mistake, because it presumes that Lady 2 would only withhold information about herself from Lady 1 if it were bad. If Lady 1 had already expressed the hope that it was a nice holiday, she ought to just say, ‘oh, OK, I hope I didn’t bore you with my long story!’ and then change the subject or ask another person about their holiday. If she had already asked Lady 2 what happened, she ought to say, ‘oh, well, I hope it was nothing bad, or that you would feel free to talk to us about it if it were.’ If Lady 2 does not interject something, Lady 1 or someone there ought to segue the attention away from Lady 2’s holiday.
Lady 2 : I never said I had a bad time, I simply said I did not want to talk about it
This was a non-dramatic confirmation of her original contention. It is perfectly polite, particularly if her tone of voice doesn’t let on that she’s ready to grab a bat to defend herself from Lady 1’s intrusiveness.

The topic changed. Later in the day I was alone with lady 1 and she said to me: I can’t imagine what was so horrible that happened on her holidays that she would not want to talk about it’

*I responded ‘I really don’t think we can judge someone until we walk in her shoes’

Lady 1 : I have never walked in her shoes so there is no way for me to understand where she is coming from. What possible reason could there be for her to not want to talk about her holidays unless something horrible happened?*

Your suggestion that she deal with her issues with Lady 2 directly instead of coming to you was correct. IMO, to suggest that Lady 2 had very clearly said she didn’t want to talk about it and that her request ought to be respected is even better, but you did fine. You do have to be careful about being too direct, since Lady 1 might get upset if you sound as if you are correcting her manners, so if I had been there with you, I might have said exactly what you did. If you can point out that there was nothing about Lady 2’s demeanor that suggested she was at all upset about the topic or wanted someone to ask in spite of her statements to the contrary, though, so much the better. You can end with, “Let’s not read anything into it. To ask for privacy for the sake of privacy is a perfectly good explanation. No one needs to give a reason to ask for that.”

 

[PhiloMed]

I think Lady #2’s response was very peculiar. Lady 1 was making general conversation that is common and even considered friendly in the workplace. Lady #2 could have given a less stand-offish answer such as “Just relaxed at home” or “Enjoyed a nice staycation.” If I was lady#2 I would probably walk away with the feeling of Lady1 being very strange indeed.

However, every workplace has a different social dynamic. In some places it is very uncommon for people to chit chat about themselves. In others where communication may be a mainstay of the work (think sales, marketing, etc) it probably is more common and downright bizarre for someone to behave that way.

We recently interviewed a gentleman for a position in my department. We took him to lunch midway through the day for an opportunity for a more relaxed conversation about his background. He spoke very little. Had a difficult time engaging in conversation and gave simple one or two word answers. His background looked great on paper, but he never would have fit in with our group and we didn’t feel he would be comfortable speaking with the number of people we interact with daily. We are in a medical research industry. He was not offered the position.

The shorter answer to what you asked is that I personally think Lady2 was strange in her response, but it’s entirely possible that Lady1 is the outlier in your environment.

 

[Anglewannabe]

The shorter answer to what you asked is that I personally think Lady2 was strange in her response, but it’s entirely possible that Lady1 is the outlier in your environment.

In my line of work, it is not necessary to talk about our social lives. However, I don’t think it has to do with ‘environment’. I think it has to do with different people have different comfort levels in what they like to share. I just don’t see why lady 1 had to push the issue

 

[1990Domer]

I think this is all good advice. Some people are just really nosy. For instance, when I was pregnant, you couldn’t imagine the strangers who were upset with my and my DHs decision to not find out the sex of our child. I mean, a couple people lectured me. Amazing!

 

[underacloud]

Angie, you handled it very well.

Is it impolite? That’s actually quite hard to say. Sometimes we can observe two people talking and we think that they are being quite rude to each other, or overly confrontational, or defensive, or whatever…but we may not know their history together. Sometimes people who are actually quite close can talk more aggressively toward each other as they are more comfortable being frank with each other. Sometimes the opposite is true and people wish to play their cards close to their chest so to speak, as they know say that the other person will jump to conclusions and potentially spread gossip.

You never really can tell and it’s just best to stay out of it and not jump to any conclusions either way.

The more I think of it, for lady 1 to say ‘I haven’t walked in her shoes so I can’t know how she feels’ was a sign of being extremely ignorant and judgemental. Is that wrong of me to conclude?

Just like Lady 1 should not have drawn any conclusions*, neither should you. Just let this go and don’t worry about it.

(* yes, I realise the irony here)

 

[PhiloMed]

In my line of work, it is not necessary to talk about our social lives. However, I don’t think it has to do with ‘environment’. I think it has to do with different people have different comfort levels in what they like to share. I just don’t see why lady 1 had to push the issue

There are some people who just do not pick up on social norms and cues. To the rest of us it is often perceived as strange at best, often rude. Even if this is pointed out they often take a very literal interpretation of what is required/expected socially. I, myself, am often not very patient with these types of people.

It is not necessary in most peoples’ line of business to disclose personal information or even socialize internally, but it is common. When someone does not they will fall outside of the norm and be perceived differently.

Hence why I think you can relate better to Lady#2 and I am fully understanding where Lady#1 is coming from.

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

I think Lady #2’s response was very peculiar. Lady 1 was making general conversation that is common and even considered friendly in the workplace. Lady #2 could have given a less stand-offish answer such as “Just relaxed at home” or “Enjoyed a nice staycation.” If I was lady#2 I would probably walk away with the feeling of Lady1 being very strange indeed.

I agree. In fact, depending on the tone of voice, such a response could sound like a rebuke. If I were the person who was asking a friendly question that most people enjoy being asked, and someone very abruptly gave that reply, I would feel hurt and surprised - as though I was being rude just to ask. The fact is, most information about ourselves is none of anyone’s business, but most people easily give out a lot of information as a matter of friendly small talk. If we all said “none of your business” every time someone asked about a question that is none of anyone’s business, there would be no conversations.

Now as others have said, the continued gossiping about it WAS rude, and the response of “I’m sorry you had a bad time” was likely an attempt to get Lady 2 to tell what happened a different way. And there may be a backstory or there may have been a conversation earlier in the day about the same topic that made the response less abrupt. But as a sensitive person who tries very hard to respect peoples’ privacy, I would feel slapped in the face by a short “I don’t want to talk about it.” After the fact, when Lady 1 was gossiping, it was absolutely appropriate to tell her to lay off and to remark that even if Lady 2 could have been gentler in her remark, it is best to respect her privacy and let it be.

 

[Anglewannabe]

I agree. In fact, depending on the tone of voice, such a response could sound like a rebuke. If I were the person who was asking a friendly question that most people enjoy being asked, and someone very abruptly gave that reply, I would feel hurt and surprised - as though I was being rude just to ask. The fact is, most information about ourselves is none of anyone’s business, but most people easily give out a lot of information as a matter of friendly small talk. If we all said “none of your business” every time someone asked about a question that is none of anyone’s business, there would be no conversations.

.

First let me explain, the reason I feel so protective of Lady 2 is I have often been in social situations where people have asked me what I do for a living and it has rubbed salt on my wounds. Especially when I was unemployed. It was a humiliating thing to have to admit to and the most annoying was then people would hand out unwanted useless advice.

So my question to you is 'If you were in a social setting and asked someone where they worked with innocent intentions, and that person said in a polite tone of voice ‘I’m sorry but I would much rather not talk about work’, would you still find it odd?

Angie

 

[Virga]

A person’s tone and demeanor could change everything in this situation, but the words themselves aren’t impolite.

Some people feel short and simple responses are cold and unfriendly, but Lady 2’s words were fine to me. Her response might not be considered friendly, but it wasn’t rude either.

Giving Lady 1 the benefit of the doubt, I think she might have truly believed Lady 2 had something horrible happen, since Lady 1 doesn’t seem to be able to understand why someone wouldn’t share information otherwise. It’s more like a lack of understanding that not everyone thinks the same way she does. She should have let it go though.

Lady 2 : I don’t want to talk about it

Lady 1 : Sorry you had a bad time

Lady 2 : I never said I had a bad time, I simply said I did not want to talk about it

I would have been annoyed by Lady 1’s response and probably wouldn’t have reacted so patiently, so kudos to Lady 2.