Is this impolite?

[EasterJoy]

First let me explain, the reason I feel so protective of Lady 2 is I have often been in social situations where people have asked me what I do for a living and it has rubbed salt on my wounds. Especially when I was unemployed. It was a humiliating thing to have to admit to and the most annoying was then people would hand out unwanted useless advice.

So my question to you is 'If you were in a social setting and asked someone where they worked with innocent intentions, and that person said in a polite tone of voice ‘I’m sorry but I would much rather not talk about work’, would you still find it odd?

Angie

It is not your job to “protect” other people, but just to respect the boundaries they have drawn and matter-of-factly encourage others to do the same. Downplay the conjectures Lady 1 is making as fanciful, and let it go without interjecting any drama. If she’s just worried, it will help allay her fears. If she is being nosy, it will not give her any ammunition to probe further. As for Lady 2, I bet she can protect herself just fine.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

The things Easter Joy suggested in post #2 are all possibilities but the first thing that came to my mind was that Lady 2 has Lady 1’s number and knows better than to share anything with her. What could be a pleasant conversation won’t be if one of the participants has a knack for being rude, nosy, making unwelcome comments. I’ll give an example: Lady 2 shares that her friend’s husband died from a heart attack at age 42. Lady 1 says, “Well someone ate too many McDonald’s!” I work with Lady 1 in that scenario. I have made it a point not to share anything unless I’m prepared for an insensitive or intrusive remark made about it.

 

[PhiloMed]

First let me explain, the reason I feel so protective of Lady 2 is I have often been in social situations where people have asked me what I do for a living and it has rubbed salt on my wounds. Especially when I was unemployed. It was a humiliating thing to have to admit to and the most annoying was then people would hand out unwanted useless advice.

So my question to you is 'If you were in a social setting and asked someone where they worked with innocent intentions, and that person said in a polite tone of voice ‘I’m sorry but I would much rather not talk about work’, would you still find it odd?

Angie

Yes. Yes I would. I go back to what I said about there being typical social norms and cues. Most people know this would be a peculiar response. Something a bit more friendly would be “I work in the XYZ industry”. Or if between jobs simply say that. It’s nothing to be ashamed of and the person might have a job lead for you!

I have honestly never encountered anyone who wouldn’t make polite small talk about their job unless they worked for CIA and then they just said “I work for the government.”

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

First let me explain, the reason I feel so protective of Lady 2 is I have often been in social situations where people have asked me what I do for a living and it has rubbed salt on my wounds. Especially when I was unemployed. It was a humiliating thing to have to admit to and the most annoying was then people would hand out unwanted useless advice.

So my question to you is 'If you were in a social setting and asked someone where they worked with innocent intentions, and that person said in a polite tone of voice ‘I’m sorry but I would much rather not talk about work’, would you still find it odd?

Angie

I would still find it odd, because it seems odd to me that someone would be ashamed of their job, or even of being unemployed, unless they were doing something illegal, or intentionally working the welfare system. I’m of the mind that these sorts of things are nothing to be embarrassed about. Having trouble looking for work - honorable. Working as the guy who cleans the bathrooms in the dive restaurant - honorable. Also, “where do you work” is such a commonplace, friendly question, that turning it away does make one more curious, and makes the listener wonder why the person is being secretive and/or defensive.

I do understand that not everyone thinks the way I do. I know that some conversationalists are looking for any opportunity to judge others. And I know that certain people receiving the questions get so many questions that they are really sick of always explaining, and I know that there are some who are what I would consider over sensitive and they have the prerogative to be that way. I have a husband who fits into those categories - sometimes (in my opinion) too sensitive to questions, and sometimes legitimately sick of always explaining. I see him in action a lot, and as the 3rd party, I can see how his deflective replies cause the conversations to be more awkward, and make it harder for people to get to know him. But that’s his choice, and I respect it.

Oddness aside, the way you worded the response (I’m sorry but I would much rather not talk about work) is very polite, and if I receive that response to my question, the feeling of “that was a little odd” would be fleeting, and I wouldn’t feel like I was being rebuked for my question or that you were being rude. I would probably try pretty quickly to get over the awkward moment that would exist and try to come up with another topic. Although I’m not much of a conversationalist, so hopefully the person who said “let’s not talk about it” would give me the courtesy of suggesting a different topic of conversation rather than standing silently and expecting me to guess what they ARE willing to discuss and try that one.

The way you quoted Lady 2, I imagined it in a certain tone of voice - every time I’ve ever heard someone say “I don’t want to talk about it,” it has always been in the same abrupt tone. To be honest, I can’t even imagine what sort of tone of voice could be used that wouldn’t imply “I can’t believe you are daring to ask me that.” Adding polite words like “rather” and “I’m sorry, but” go a long way towards showing the questioner that you don’t think they’re a jerk for asking.

 

[EasterJoy]

The things Easter Joy suggested in post #2 are all possibilities but the first thing that came to my mind was that Lady 2 has Lady 1’s number and knows better than to share anything with her. What could be a pleasant conversation won’t be if one of the participants has a knack for being rude, nosy, making unwelcome comments. I’ll give an example: Lady 2 shares that her friend’s husband died from a heart attack at age 42. Lady 1 says, “Well someone ate too many McDonald’s!” I work with Lady 1 in that scenario. I have made it a point not to share anything unless I’m prepared for an insensitive or intrusive remark made about it.

To be fair, sometimes people simply keep their private life private simply because if you only clam up when you have something to hide you have sort of ruined your chances of ever hiding anything. The first time you clam up, you’ve given yourself away and let yourself in for a lot of prying questions. More to the point, the wise have often said that you should not expect other people to keep your secrets when you do not keep them yourself.

If Lady 2 really has something to hide, what of it? She can confide in others or not, as she chooses. That is no business of her co-workers.

Having said that, it is a ticklish business to imply to one of your co-workers that you think she is a busybody. She will probably be insulted, whether she is a busybody or not. Better to simply act as if it does not occur to you to make the leap of imagination necessary to read things into what other people say instead of taking them at their word.

 

[Anglewannabe]

I would still find it odd, because it seems odd to me that someone would be ashamed of their job, or even of being unemployed, unless they were doing something illegal, or intentionally working the welfare system. I’m of the mind that these sorts of things are nothing to be embarrassed about. Having trouble looking for work - honorable. Working as the guy who cleans the bathrooms in the dive restaurant - honorable. Also, “where do you work” is such a commonplace, friendly question, that turning it away does make one more curious, and makes the listener wonder why the person is being secretive and/or defensive.

.

It doesn’t really have to do with shame, It has to do with knowing from experience how cruel people can be to the unemployed. Being introduced at parties as ‘This is Angie who is currently unemployed’, Going to church and having people scream out ‘Angie do you regret quitting your job yet’. Case in point. A so called ‘friend’ of mine had no sympathy for all the cruel remarks people would make to me. Forever telling me to get over it. ! week after her contract ended she calls me up saying ‘Yeah you are right, people are cruel to the unemployed’ expecting me to have sympathy for her when she never even apologized for being unsympathetic to me

 

[AttendeDomine]

So, my questions is: Is lady 1 out of line? I

I would say that Lady 1 has a point—the response could be interpreted as insinuating a bad time—but that she should also mind her own business.

If I were to see that conversation in a book, I would assume that there was some sort of underlying tension between the two characters that would be explained more fully later on.

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

It doesn’t really have to do with shame, It has to do with knowing from experience how cruel people can be to the unemployed. Being introduced at parties as ‘This is Angie who is currently unemployed’, Going to church and having people scream out ‘Angie do you regret quitting your job yet’. Case in point. A so called ‘friend’ of mine had no sympathy for all the cruel remarks people would make to me. Forever telling me to get over it. ! week after her contract ended she calls me up saying ‘Yeah you are right, people are cruel to the unemployed’ expecting me to have sympathy for her when she never even apologized for being unsympathetic to me

It sounds like you encounter people who are that “looking to judge” type that I mentioned. The behavior you are describing is quite rude and obnoxious, and I wouldn’t want to converse with such people at all, let alone about a job. Does “I’d rather not talk about it” would really deter an obnoxious person like that though? It didn’t seem to work with the ladies in your original post. Personally, I would save the “I’d rather not talk about…” for the actual rude question, rather than the not rude one that preceded it. ie-
Lady who isn’t rude YET: So Angle, have you found a job yet?
Angle (in lighthearted tone): Nah, not yet. Still coming along… (as I’m working on walking away)
Rude Lady: Don’t you regret quitting your job now?
Angle: Well, that’s a pretty personal question that I’d rather not discuss. Have a nice day though… (walks away)

(actually, I’m the sort who would be more comfortable answering the second, rude question with “No, I don’t regret it at all” and then finding a way to extract myself from the conversation, but I’m not very good at being assertive, so I am impressed with your ability to be assertive)

Now if Rude Lady has shown a pattern of relentlessly asking the same question every time we see each other, then it wouldn’t seem odd at all, asked me the same question for several weeks in a row, then it wouldn’t seem odd at all to say, “lets talk about something else” because it would almost be like one long conversation that you were having.

That said, whether or not you sound odd, you describe yourself as being polite. It is your right to be protective of yourself emotionally, and sometimes sounding a little odd is a small price to pay for that.

 

[Anglewannabe]

Something a bit more friendly would be “I work in the XYZ industry”…"

Telling people what industry I am in would imply a willingness to talk about it. Usually after that they ask ‘and what do you do there’ It is simpler for me to set my boundary up front

Or if between jobs simply say that. It’s nothing to be ashamed of and the person might have a job lead for you!
"

As a Catholic, I know the most important is to do God’s will and there is nothing to be ashamed of when unemployed. However, people are cruel and they LOVE to hurt the unemployed. Why give them an in?

As for getting a job lead, nothing could be further from the truth. The people giving out the so called ‘leads’ have obviously never looked for work or hired anyone in years. They just send you on a wild goose chase and CLEARLY never had to try their advice. They just talk a good show, get your hopes up only to for me to crash.

 

[Anglewannabe]

It sounds like you encounter people who are that “looking to judge” type that I mentioned. The behavior you are describing is quite rude and obnoxious, and I wouldn’t want to converse with such people at all, let alone about a job. Does “I’d rather not talk about it” would really deter an obnoxious person like that though? It didn’t seem to work with the ladies in your original post. .

True that doesn’t work with a rude person, but to the nice person who makes well intentioned yet unknowingly hurtful remarks it does

Personally, I would save the “I’d rather not talk about…” for the actual rude question, rather than the not rude one that preceded it. ie-
Lady who isn’t rude YET: So Angle, have you found a job yet?
Angle (in lighthearted tone): Nah, not yet. Still coming along… (as I’m working on walking away)
Rude Lady: Don’t you regret quitting your job now?
Angle: Well, that’s a pretty personal question that I’d rather not discuss. Have a nice day though… (walks away).

The walking away part does not always work. For example, I am at a supper party, I can’t very well get up and leave the table without offending the host

(actually, I’m the sort who would be more comfortable answering the second, rude question with “No, I don’t regret it at all” and then finding a way to extract myself from the conversation, but I’m not very good at being assertive, so I am impressed with your ability to be assertive)).

Thank you

Now if Rude Lady has shown a pattern of relentlessly asking the same question every time we see each other, then it wouldn’t seem odd at all, asked me the same question for several weeks in a row, then it wouldn’t seem odd at all to say, “lets talk about something else” because it would almost be like one long conversation that you were having.

Sadly, the ones who relentlessly ask know very well it is hurting me which is why they do it. They get a jolt out of hurting people

That said, whether or not you sound odd, you describe yourself as being polite. It is your right to be protective of yourself emotionally, and sometimes sounding a little odd is a small price to pay for that.

Thank you I guess you put into words my feelings. After everything I have been through, I find it wise to set a boundary. I know in my heart, a lot of people who have walked in my shoes would feel the same way. And most would give up and just quit trying.

 

[EasterJoy]

As a Catholic, I know the most important is to do God’s will and there is nothing to be ashamed of when unemployed. However, people are cruel and they LOVE to hurt the unemployed. Why give them an in?

As for getting a job lead, nothing could be further from the truth. The people giving out the so called ‘leads’ have obviously never looked for work or hired anyone in years. They just send you on a wild goose chase and CLEARLY never had to try their advice. They just talk a good show, get your hopes up only to for me to crash.

“People” do not LOVE to hurt the unemployed, and most of them are not cruel. People too often unintentionally hurt the unemployed by giving well-meant but ill-informed offers at help, that is true. The world is not full of sociopaths looking for unemployed people to torment.

When you’re going through a painful period of unemployment, it might seem that way, but I hope you would not want anyone who is temporarily jobless to think of you that way, now that you are employed. You may say, “well, yes, but I know what it feels like to be jobless.” Think of the statistics, though! You are not anything like a rare bird. There are millions of people right now who are involuntarily unemployed or underemployed, but there are many millions more who have had to go through that at some time during their careers. That is a lot of people who were never out to hurt you when they found out you wanted a job but couldn’t find one. It is unfair nor does not do you nor anyone else any good to project nasty motives on “people” that they never had.

Likewise, I doubt that Lady 1 means any harm to Lady 2. I am willing to believe that she is genuinely concerned about her co-worker’s welfare. What she has in common with the persons giving well-meant but harmful advice to the unemployed is that she does not realize that you can hurt the very people you mean to help by barging past the boundaries they show you. When an adult says, “I don’t want to talk about it,” the most you can do is to say, “I’m concerned about you because of ______, but if you say you don’t want anything from me to help you, I’ll believe you. I do believe you’re competent to take care of your own business. I hope you won’t hesitate to tell me if there is anything I might be able do for you, though.”

 

[EasterJoy]

Sadly, the ones who relentlessly ask know very well it is hurting me which is why they do it. They get a jolt out of hurting people.

There are people like that. It is important to realize that you can stopping being “nice” without in any way being impolite. The rules of etiquette do allow for self-defense that goes beyond what might be as pleasant as one would hope.

You are right: those few who want to make a hobby out of tormenting others will take advantage of those who feel a need to be “pleasant” all of the time, even when some nasty other people are feeling free to use a veneer of pleasantries to make themselves as unpleasant as they like. No one is fooled by their pretenses. Don’t feel constrained about defending yourself by the methods that civilized people use.

One of the methods that civilized people use, by the way, is to apologize to the host when one of the other guests becomes so offensive that they are forced them to leave the table. The polite host does not get to take offense at having an offended guest excuse themselves from their gathering. That is a right that civilization allows.

 

[Anglewannabe]

“People” do not LOVE to hurt the unemployed, and most of them are not cruel. People too often unintentionally hurt the unemployed by giving well-meant but ill-informed offers at help, that is true. The world is not full of sociopaths looking for unemployed people to torment.

Then how do you explain all the people who when I politely said ‘I realize you mean to help but it is best is if I take care of this myself’ would
a-) Keep asking every time they saw me
b-) Make a cruel remark such as ‘If you knew what to do you would have a job’ or
c-) Or C say ‘Fine, I will never ask again’ implying I am suppose to care more about their feelings when I am the one who is unemployed and they brought it up

When you’re going through a painful period of unemployment, it might seem that way, but I hope you would not want anyone who is temporarily jobless to think of you that way, now that you are employed.

Actually, I KNOW I am not cruel to the unemployed, but I would NOT expect them to believe that upon first meeting me. If anything, I would think they should be cautious of people

You are not anything like a rare bird. There are millions of people right now who are involuntarily unemployed or underemployed, but there are many millions more who have had to go through that at some time during their careers. That is a lot of people who were never out to hurt you when they found out you wanted a job but couldn’t find one. It is unfair nor does not do you nor anyone else any good to project nasty motives on “people” that they never had.

That is one side of the coin. The other side of the coin is people who have the mentality ‘When I was unemployed everyone hurt my feelings so I can take it out on Angie.’ Those people are out there sadly

Likewise, I doubt that Lady 1 means any harm to Lady 2. I am willing to believe that she is genuinely concerned about her co-worker’s welfare. What she has in common with the persons giving well-meant but harmful advice to the unemployed is that she does not realize that you can hurt the very people you mean to help by barging past the boundaries they show you. When an adult says, “I don’t want to talk about it,” the most you can do is to say, “I’m concerned about you because of ______, but if you say you don’t want anything from me to help you, I’ll believe you. I do believe you’re competent to take care of your own business. I hope you won’t hesitate to tell me if there is anything I might be able do for you, though.”

I honestly have no idea what Lady 1’s intention were. And yes, there is such a thing as a well intentioned person who does not realize they hurt the other. If this is a one time event, then I would have to agree with that