Is this really what the Catholic Church teaches?

[Annie_B]

Hello!
I saw the following two posts in another thread and I was really surprized. Is this really what the Catholic church teaches? I would really like to know . I was Catholic, converted to LDS , but never heard this before. Thanks so much! (This may have been better posted in another category, but since the original quotes were in this one, I left it here…
Annie

**<<< #6 Jan 31, '08, 1:57 pm
cradlecathlic26
Re: Is Jesus Christ and the Roman Catholic Church the only way to salvation?

-----Yes you must have jesus to have salvation, but you do not have to be catholic to get it. Thats what we catholics believe.

cradlecathlic26
#7 Jan 31, '08, 2:16 pm
jmcrae
Re: Is Jesus Christ and the Roman Catholic Church the only way to salvation?​

Quote:
Originally Posted by cradlecathlic26
Yes you must have jesus to have salvation, but you do not have to be catholic to get it. Thats what we catholics believe.

If you know Jesus, then you will become a Catholic before you are saved - either here in this life, or else in Purgatory. >>>**

 

[Hisalone]

Catholics are confused on this matter. This teaching was condemned in the 20th century however many today still claim it to be true. But as Bill Clinton says it depends on what “is” is.

 

[Annie_B]

Catholics are confused on this matter. This teaching was condemned in the 20th century however many today still claim it to be true. But as Bill Clinton says it depends on what “is” is.

Thank you for answering. I was kind of wondering how this question would be handled, as I have had some not so friendly responses when I ask sincere questions. I am always open to learning about the beliefs of others.

Annie

 

[dmelosi]

Catholics are confused on this matter. This teaching was condemned in the 20th century however many today still claim it to be true. But as Bill Clinton says it depends on what “is” is.

This response is not even close to the truth.

 

[Annie_B]

This response is not even close to the truth.

Ok, then can you please tell me what the truth about these matters are? I would really appreciate it!

Annie

 

[dmelosi]

Hello!
I saw the following two posts in another thread and I was really surprized. Is this really what the Catholic church teaches? I would really like to know . I was Catholic, converted to LDS , but never heard this before. Thanks so much! (This may have been better posted in another category, but since the original quotes were in this one, I left it here…
Annie

**<<< #6 Jan 31, '08, 1:57 pm **
**cradlecathlic26 **
**Re: Is Jesus Christ and the Roman Catholic Church the only way to salvation? **

-----Yes you must have jesus to have salvation, but you do not have to be catholic to get it. Thats what we catholics believe.

**cradlecathlic26 **
**#7 Jan 31, '08, 2:16 pm **
**jmcrae **
**Re: Is Jesus Christ and the Roman Catholic Church the only way to salvation? **
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
**Originally Posted by cradlecathlic26 **
**Yes you must have jesus to have salvation, but you do not have to be catholic to get it. Thats what we catholics believe. **

If you know Jesus, then you will become a Catholic before you are saved - either here in this life, or else in Purgatory. >>>

Catholics believe that only God knows who will get to heaven.

Is the above quote that you copied all of the original post?

Please read this for the Catholic view on salvation

catholic.com/thisrock/2004/0403sbs.asp

 

[Pong]

Annie,

Please ignore hisalone. He or she is a disgruntled protestant with an utter contempt for the Church. Now for the answer to your question.

Yes you must have jesus to have salvation, but you do not have to be catholic to get it. Thats what we catholics believe.

Yes, this was very well put. We acknowledge that there may be reasons why some are outside of the Church. People born into other denonminations may not have ever been exposed to the truth of the Church and therefore have Jesus, but not His Church.

If you know Jesus, then you will become a Catholic before you are saved - either here in this life, or else in Purgatory.

True again. In purgatory, those who remained invincibly ignorant on earth will come to accept the fullness of truth.

 

[Yerusalyim]

The Church teaches that outside the Church there is no salvation…we can torture what the term “church” means. The Catholic Church DOES NOT teach that those who are not formal members of the Catholic Church go to hell. The Church DOES teach that all salvation comes through Christ.

 

[Della]

Hello!
I saw the following two posts in another thread and I was really surprized. Is this really what the Catholic church teaches? I would really like to know . I was Catholic, converted to LDS , but never heard this before. Thanks so much! (This may have been better posted in another category, but since the original quotes were in this one, I left it here…
Annie

**<<< #6 Jan 31, '08, 1:57 pm
cradlecathlic26
Re: Is Jesus Christ and the Roman Catholic Church the only way to salvation?

-----Yes you must have jesus to have salvation, but you do not have to be catholic to get it. Thats what we catholics believe.

cradlecathlic26
#7 Jan 31, '08, 2:16 pm
jmcrae
Re: Is Jesus Christ and the Roman Catholic Church the only way to salvation?​

Quote:
Originally Posted by cradlecathlic26
Yes you must have jesus to have salvation, but you do not have to be catholic to get it. Thats what we catholics believe.

If you know Jesus, then you will become a Catholic before you are saved - either here in this life, or else in Purgatory. >>>**

Straight from the Catechism of the Catholic Church (emphasis mine):

“Outside the Church there is no salvation”
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that **all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body: **
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence **they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.**336
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337
848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338

I hope that clarifies things. Of course, the language used here is quite precise and meant to be. We will gladly help you “unpack” these statements if you have any questions about it.

 

[dmelosi]

Ok, then can you please tell me what the truth about these matters are? I would really appreciate it!

Annie

Annie,
After you take a look at the article, link listed above in my earlier post, please ask any questions, there are many here that can answer or give you a good source.

 

[lukewarm]

Here is what the Church *used *to say:

Pope Innocent III

*“There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside of which no one at all can be saved.” *

Pope Boniface VIII Unam Sanctam:

“Urged by faith, we are obliged to believe and to maintain that the Church is one, holy, catholic, and also apostolic. We believe in her firmly and we confess with simplicity that outside of her there is neither salvation nor the remission of sins…In her then is one Lord, one faith, one baptism [Ephesians 4:5]. There had been at the time of the deluge only one ark of Noah, prefiguring the one Church, which ark, having been finished to a single cubit, had only one pilot and guide, i.e., Noah, and we read that, outside of this ark, all that subsisted on the earth was destroyed…Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.”

Pope Eugene IV Cantate Domino:

“It [the Church] firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, **not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart ‘into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels’ [Matt. 25:41], **unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that **no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.” **

Here is what the CC believes post Vatican II:

“The Catholic Church professes that it is the one, holy catholic and apostolic Church of Christ; this it does not and could not deny. But in its Constitution the Church now (now? did that not in the past then) solemnly acknowledges that the Holy Ghost is truly active in the churches and communities separated from itself. To these other Christian Churches the Catholic Church is bound in many ways: through reverence for God’s word in the Scriptures; through the fact of baptism; through other sacraments which they recognize.”

The non-Christian may not be blamed for his ignorance of Christ and his Church; salvation is open to him also, if he seeks God sincerely and if he follows the commands of his conscience, for through this means the Holy Ghost acts upon all men; this divine action is not confined within the limited boundaries of the visible Church.

Now folks here will still claim there wa no doctrinal change at Vatican II but if you look at history you can see it was basically a 180.

As far as what the real teaching is I have no idea…

(emphasis added mine)

 

[rpp]

The Catholic Church has always taught that outside the Church, there is no salvation.

In practical terms, that means that people who have never heard the Gospel may, by the proper application of natural law, come to believe in God and seek a means of salvation. It is possible some of these people may be redeemed.

For Christians who are not, and never have been, in communion with the Catholic Church, e.g. Protestants, it is possible that they too may be saved. However, as they lack most of the Sacraments, the miss the fullness of truth.

For those who leave the Catholic Church for another Christian denomination, presuming that they are not rejecting some Catholic teaching but do so out of ignorance about what the Church teaches, they too may be saved (redeemed).

Those who leave the Catholic Church for another religion (e.g. LDS), for whatever reason, place their soul in serious peril. It is a grave sin to separate oneself from the Church.

Any person who knowingly rejects or refuses to learn about Catholic teachings place their immortal soul in jeopardy.

 

[Annie_B]

Catholics believe that only God knows who will get to heaven.

Is the above quote that you copied all of the original post?

Please read this for the Catholic view on salvation

catholic.com/thisrock/2004/0403sbs.asp

Yes - it is the total of the two posts. The only part I deleted was the “member information” that showed up when I copy/pasted. It was the part of a much larger thread - it is just that those two remarks interested me and took me a bit by surprise.Thanks so much for the link!

Annie

 

[PaulDupre]

Ok, then can you please tell me what the truth about these matters are? I would really appreciate it!

Annie

Let’s go to the source, the Cathechism of the Catholic Church:

“Outside the Church there is no salvation”

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

“Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.”

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

“Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.”

848 Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men.

Hope this helps,
Paul

 

[Annie_B]

**Thank you ALL who have posted! I am going to sort through this after I get DH off to work…I really do appreciate the time taken to answer. I wish I had learned of some of these things before - it is all news to me.

Annie**

 

[PaulDupre]

Here is a link to a searchable Cathechism online.

Paul

 

[Della]

Here is what the Church *used *to say:

Pope Innocent III

*“There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside of which no one at all can be saved.” *

Pope Boniface VIII Unam Sanctam:

“Urged by faith, we are obliged to believe and to maintain that the Church is one, holy, catholic, and also apostolic. We believe in her firmly and we confess with simplicity that outside of her there is neither salvation nor the remission of sins…In her then is one Lord, one faith, one baptism [Ephesians 4:5]. There had been at the time of the deluge only one ark of Noah, prefiguring the one Church, which ark, having been finished to a single cubit, had only one pilot and guide, i.e., Noah, and we read that, outside of this ark, all that subsisted on the earth was destroyed…Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.”

Pope Eugene IV Cantate Domino:

“It [the Church] firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, **not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart ‘into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels’ [Matt. 25:41], **unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that **no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.” **

Here is what the CC believes post Vatican II:

“The Catholic Church professes that it is the one, holy catholic and apostolic Church of Christ; this it does not and could not deny. But in its Constitution the Church now (now? did that not in the past then) solemnly acknowledges that the Holy Ghost is truly active in the churches and communities separated from itself. To these other Christian Churches the Catholic Church is bound in many ways: through reverence for God’s word in the Scriptures; through the fact of baptism; through other sacraments which they recognize.”

The non-Christian may not be blamed for his ignorance of Christ and his Church; salvation is open to him also, if he seeks God sincerely and if he follows the commands of his conscience, for through this means the Holy Ghost acts upon all men; this divine action is not confined within the limited boundaries of the visible Church.

Now folks here will still claim there wa no doctrinal change at Vatican II but if you look at history you can see it was basically a 180.

As far as what the real teaching is I have no idea…

(emphasis added mine)

All any Catholic has to do is consult the CCC to see for himself what the Church says about this issue. When we take it upon ourselves to interpret Church documents on our own, we very often come away misunderstanding them. It’s why the Church gave us the CCC, so we wouldn’t have to do this on our own or be confused. Two of us here have posted the relevant passage from the CCC. It addresses anyone’s difficulty with this issue perfectly well, if we are willing to submit to the wisdom of Christ’s infallible Church.

 

[lukewarm]

All any Catholic has to do is consult the CCC to see for himself what the Church means by its own documents. When we take it upon ourselves to interpret these documents on our own, we very often come away misunderstanding them. It’s why the Church gave us the CCC, so we wouldn’t have to do this on our own or be confused.

Having said that, the documents you quoted from were written for a time and a people different from our own. They were meant to deal with specific problems at specific times, i. e., the rise of Protestantism. They DO NOT refer to those who are material heretics (those brought up in other faith communities or who are ignorant of Church teaching) only with those who are FORMAL heretics–those who knowing full well who and what the Church is left it for whatever reason. And yes, there is a big difference between the two.

I don’t believe the statements say that all… We’ll have to agree to disagree, I can read and it appears to me the CC taught one thing for 1960 years, then taught another completely. I’ve studied and tried to convince myself otherwise, but in the end it’s not possible with the amount of material to support that the CC did not teach salvation for those outside the CC, and after Vatican II they did.

Jews and pagans weren’t “formal heretics” like you say as in they weren’t raised in the CC and left, yet a spot in hell has been prepared for them according to bull refenced above.

 

[Della]

I don’t believe the statements say that all… We’ll have to agree to disagree, I can read and it appears to me the CC taught one thing for 1960 years, then taught another completely. I’ve studied and tried to convince myself otherwise, but in the end it’s not possible with the amount of material to support that the CC did not teach salvation for those outside the CC, and after Vatican II they did.

Jews and pagans weren’t “formal heretics” like you say as in they weren’t raised in the CC and left, yet a spot in hell has been prepared for them according to bull refenced above.

I knew you would jump on that part of my post, which is why I revised it, but too late.

Pope Eugene IV did give us the words that explain what the Church teaches today. He wrote: “unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock.” It is for the Church to interpret his words here, not you or I. And the Church did–in the passage from the CCC I and another poster cited. It’s not up to you or me to decide if the Church got it right or not. Thinking like that is what gave rise to Protestantism in the first place.

 

[lukewarm]

I knew you would jump on that part of my post, which is why I revised it, but too late.

Pope Eugene IV did give us the words that explain what the Church teaches today. He wrote: “unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock.” It is for the Church to interpret his words here, not you or I. And the Church did–in the passage from the CCC I and another poster cited. It’s not up to you or me to decide if the Church got it right or not. Thinking like that is what gave rise to Protestantism in the first place.

Again Della I wish I could shut my brain off and simply accept something when clear English says another, unfortunately I can’t and this has caused me much grief over my life…

We’ll agree to disagree, I thought in the interest of fairness the OP should see both sides and come to her own conclusion.