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rpp
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Doh! :doh2: Yes you are right. Temporary insanity on my part. Sorry, Annie BReallyI thought the original poster with the question was “Annie” who is an LDS not a muslim
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Annie_B
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I am the original poster. And you are right; I am LDS. Formerly Catholic. STILL trying to sort them both outReally
. I am, however, not a “cookie cutter” Christian; my relationship with Jesus cannot be defined by ANY organized religion’s set of rules. I have found no organized church (LDS, Catholic, Baptist etc. etc) that makes more sense to me than what I read in the Bible. ALL these churches go beyond the Bible and this is where we all need to choose what is right for us. The Catholic church and the LDS church both seem to have their own agendas
And no, I will not get more specific than that).Annie
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RodneyJ
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I asked for proof that these are only Catholic teachings. Protestants teach this as well. The phrase was "Any person who knowingly rejects or refuses to learn about Catholic teachings place their immortal soul in jeopardy."
Realize, I am still trying to learn this Catholic faith. I am not trying to post messages to degrade or belittle, but I am really trying to learn.
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rpp
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Are you responding to me?
True, many Protestants share the same teachings of the Catholic Church. For example, most teach about the reality of Hell, sin, the Trinity, and so on. You should not infer that any of my posts which describe Catholic teaching claim that Protestant Churches do not teach them.
Or have I completely missed your point. Am I answering your question? I am sorry if I misunderstand you.
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rpp
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No problem. I do that all the time myself!
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hannaboulos
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The Catholic (Universal) Church teaches the Holy Truth. Other Sects do so as well. Every Christian should beleive in the Holy Trinity which give us the salvation. We need salvation because we are human being, than sinners, and not because we are catholic! Remenber that the last words Jesus said to the disciples: Go and teach the whole word in the name of God and the Son and the Holy Spirit. (He didn´t say: go and convert all who beleive to catholicism!!). We shall respect all the christian sects in this world, we shall not condamned others non catholics because we are all the sons of God who is the only Judge.
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agangbern
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What shall be our basis for choosing what is right for us? If the basis should be the bible then let us listen to the bible. What does the bible say about the writings in the scriptures? Jesus said, “You search the Scriptures, because in them you think that you have life everrlasting. And it is they that bear witness to me, yet you are not willing to come to me that you may have life.” (John 5:39-40)I have found no organized church (LDS, Catholic, Baptist etc. etc) that makes more sense to me than what I read in the Bible. ALL these churches go beyond the Bible and this is where we all need to choose what is right for us. The Catholic church and the LDS church both seem to have their own agendas
Annie
Clearly, it is not the Scriptures that gives life but Jesus Christ Himself. The Scriptures only bear witness of the Christ. And this Christ said to Peter, "And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever thou shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." (Math 16:19)
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elvisman
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Ummm, if you really do agree with this, yet disagree with the Catholic Church on salvation, what do you do with:
1 Peter 3:21 - Baptism saves you
John 6:31-68 - Bread of Life Discourse
("…unless you eat of the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no lfe within you.")
Matt. 7:21-23 - You MUST DO the Will of the Father
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Hisalone
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I have been baptised and I take the Lords Supper so I have no problem with it.
Can a person be saved without being baptised?
Yes
You call it baptism of desire.
Baptism is a physcal demonstration of a spiritual reality. (Just as the Lords Supper is)
That is why baptism should be done after the age of reason and each individual has made up their own mind.
We eat the flesh of Jesus the word made flesh when we chew on gnaw at and digest Gods word. We drink the blood of salvation when we confess our sins and repent of them and place them under the blood. The Lords Supper “reminds” (brings us back to that point in time that we know) us of what it is Jesus has done for us and that His “real presense” is with us every hour of every day.
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elvisman
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Correction: You take part in a faulty interpretation of what the Lord’s Supper is.
You got that right, my friend.
Can you back this up with Scripture? PLEASE tell me where we are to be baptized only AFTER we come of age. What did God tell the Hebrews to do in the Old Testament? Circumcise your male children AFTER they come of age and decide for themselves? No. God’s covenant wasn’t only with the adults, but the entire family. They circumcised their children as a promise to raise them faithfully in God.
That’s EXACTLY what I thought you’d say.
Ummm . . . can you show me where in John 6 that it states this? That it is merely symbolic of his flesh? I’ve never received an adequate Protestant response to this question. In fact, I’ve never received ANY well-thought-out response to this question.
What did his disciples do after he told them that they had to eat his flesh and drink his blood? They LEFT, because it was too hard for them to believe that. These were the first Protestants.
Let us not forget John 1:1. It always seems to elude the Protestant mind:
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
**You see, the written word of God is only PART of the Word of God. Jesus IS the Word of God. He IS the “Lamb of God” (John 1:29). Just as the Hebrews ate the lamb whose blood was shed for their deliverance from death, Jesus instructs us to do the same with HIS flesh.
**You can rationalize all you want, but the reality is that the unanimous consent of the Early Church Fathers agreed with this position, many of whom died for this belief. Your point of view, that it is merely spiritual and symbolic didn’t surface until some 1500 years later. **
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agangbern
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Your opinion is as good as everyone else’s opinion. But no matter how good it may be, it remains an opinion.
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Hisalone
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That is a false statment.
Show me anywhere in scripture that an infant was baptiZed.
Circumcision was part of the old covenant. Which BTW is an everlasting or never ending covenant.That is why “the church” has not replaced Isreal as some heretics claim.
The new covenant requires a consent of will.
There is no one that can say anything to you on this matter because you have shut your eyes.
Let me say this there is no other reference in scriptre to the Lords Supper that makes it more clear that Jesus was refering to spiritual things than John 6. Jesus says right there that they were looking for signs and they were looking for physical food. What better way to rebuke them than to give them a spiritual concept that they had no way to understand?
Why are you so hard hearted?
For the flesh and blood of Jesus to be our spiritual food it needs to be eaten and drunk spiritually.
Something I see you fail to grasp.
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Hisalone
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What is your opinion?
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YADA
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Entire households were baptized, while it may not expressly identify an infant by name one can conclude that an entire household contained infants …
An not just infants but slaves and / or indentured servants who like children and infants would have this decision made on thier behalf and not necessarily their personal decision …
Not fair you say or a oerson should not have that deceision made for the… that is unheard of … Well that is just not so …
Circumcision was performed on the 8th day … servants and slaves were circumcised [at whatever age and whether they concented or not ] …
Why would a christian raise a child outside of the faith … ? They would not … nor would the early chirch have considered waiting to baptize … the earliest christians believed that Jesus was coming back in their life times … it was the realization that the second coming was not immenant that lead to the writing down of the the Gospels and the perpetuation of the Letters [which were collected, preserved copied and argued over until the *essential New Testament writings were agreed upon and identified as the Canon [core beliefs of the Church]… and thus were distributed to the various local churches.
Entire households consisted of many families, some free persons, some indentured or owned outright. Entire households included infants, children, teens, adults and elderly … entire families cannot be understood to exclude any person who could be present in a household …
Sorry but there are no qualifyers in the scriptures like the “entire household over the age of 12 years” and without that you cannot state that scripture excludes the infants … that is reading into scripture your own ‘personal’ practice …
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Pong
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Ditto.
An unordained man praying over a cracker does not the Eucharist make, no matter what you think.
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elvisman
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**I’m not hard-hearted. Like I said before, just show me where is says that and we can have an ****intelligent **dialog.
Please show me – with Scripture verses – where Jesus wasn’t talking about his flesh and blood. Show me where it says he was speaking metaphorically. I am more than willing to hear your explanation.
**Please show me that you have a better grasp on this than the fathers, many of whom were fed to the lions, burned alive and suffered many other hideous demise for their ardent belief that the Eucharist is indeed the flesh and blood of out Lord Jesus. Men like St. Ignatius of Antioch, **St. Athanasius, St. Irenaeus, St. Cyril of Jerusalem, St. Jerome, St. Cyprian of Carthage, St. Augustine and ALL the rest.
I eagerly await your response.
P.S. – In Judaism, all the males would have been circumcised. This included infants who were at least eight days old. In Colossians 2: 9-12, the Apostle Paul compares the effect of circumcision with the effect of Baptism.
1 Cor. 1:16**, St. Paul baptizes the entire household of Stephanas. The Greek word for household is oikon and refers to all the inhabitants of the house including slaves, servants, infants and children.
Peter baptized the household of Cornelius (Acts 11: 14)
In Philippi, Paul baptized the household of Lydia and the household of the jailer (Acts 16: 15, 33). He also baptized the household of Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue in Corinth.
In Mark 10: 14 our Lord Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.” The Greek word for children in this text is paidia, which means babes in arms.
Shall I go on?
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