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- Status
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Pax_et_Caritas
Guest
:bigyikes: :tsktsk:
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thechrismyster
Guest
it was nice. why is this a thread?
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James0235
Guest
No, it wasn’t.
It appears that there was liturgical dancing involved, although some will probably argue that it was not liturgical dance.
Liturgical dancing is a liturgical abuse. Liturgical abuse is gravely sinful. Add in full knowledge, and full consent on the part of the priest and we have a possible mortal sin being committed.
Again, I’m sure some will disagree.
James
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thechrismyster
Guest
isn’t it interesting, the Catholic revulsion to liturgical dance is a DIRECT result of new thinking caused by the Protestant reformation.
Before that, no problem with dance during worship. Church Fathers like Epiphanius extoled it.
Varietates Legitimae
Fourth Instruction for the Right Application of the Conciliar Constitution on the Liturgy (Nos. 37-40)Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments on
March 29, 1994.
- Among some peoples, singing is instinctively accompanied by handclapping, rhythmic swaying and dance movements on the part of the participants. Such forms of external expression can have a place in the liturgical actions of these peoples on condition that they are always the expression of true communal prayer of adoration, praise, offering and supplication, and not simply a performance.
remember that word? joy?
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Genesis315
Guest
I’m not sure as to the canonical regulations. If they are being violated, then that is definitely a grave sin.
If they are not, while not being objectively evil, I personally don’t think it is not a good idea as it abandons the riches of the Western Christian tradition. I’m sure the intent of the participants is to give glory and beauty to God in their adoration of Him, but they have probably not been exposed to higher forms of beauty–this display is tacky compared to the other options available.
As it is, if you remove the girls with incense/torch thingies, it was a very beautiful ceremony considering the music, altar, vestments, etc.
If they are not, while not being objectively evil, I personally don’t think it is not a good idea as it abandons the riches of the Western Christian tradition. I’m sure the intent of the participants is to give glory and beauty to God in their adoration of Him, but they have probably not been exposed to higher forms of beauty–this display is tacky compared to the other options available.
As it is, if you remove the girls with incense/torch thingies, it was a very beautiful ceremony considering the music, altar, vestments, etc.
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rwoehmke
Guest
Why is it always girls that dance before the altar and carry the bowls of incense? In the Bible it was David, a man for sure. They could go bare top too and not be immodest.I’m not sure as to the canonical regulations. If they are being violated, then that is definitely a grave sin.
If they are not, while not being objectively evil, I personally don’t think it is not a good idea as it abandons the riches of the Western Christian tradition. I’m sure the intent of the participants is to give glory and beauty to God in their adoration of Him, but they have probably not been exposed to higher forms of beauty–this display is tacky compared to the other options available.
As it is, if you remove the girls with incense/torch thingies, it was a very beautiful ceremony considering the music, altar, vestments, etc.
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OMI
Guest
Its from a Broadcast from RTE the National TV station from Ballina Cathedral.
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whiteyacht
Guest
That was definitely weird, but at least they were modestly dressed! 
Trying to look on the bright side…
Trying to look on the bright side…
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LilyM
Guest
Piffle! Pfui! Pshaw!
Liturgical dancing is forbidden EXCEPT that it may be permitted where dancing is a part of the culture of the region (usual example given being Africa).
And anyone who tells you dancing isn’t part of Irish culture doesnt know their leprechauns from their Guinness!!
Liturgical dancing is forbidden EXCEPT that it may be permitted where dancing is a part of the culture of the region (usual example given being Africa).
And anyone who tells you dancing isn’t part of Irish culture doesnt know their leprechauns from their Guinness!!
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Goblin_Taters
Guest
Epiphanius was a 4th century monk who lived in Judaea and Egypt, among other places. The Reformation came 11 centuries later and concerned Western Christianity. Ethiopian Christians still has liturgical dance. I would say, from my perspective, many Catholics do not have a revulsion to liturgical dance per se; it’s just not part of the Latin tradition, and so they are wary of it, especially when so many bad, creative things have been introduced into the liturgy by some people.
There is no liturgical precedent for Latin liturgical dancing. And, considering what dance means to most Western people today, some Latin Catholics are probably concerned any introduction of dance might easily get out of control, as indeed it has in many places.
A final thought: in the Latin tradition, the Mass is a solemn event, as the Mass re-enacts in liturgical form the Passion of Jesus Christ. Christ being lifted up on the Cross is not something traditional Latin Catholics want to be dancing around about.
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thechrismyster
Guest
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/4/41/350px-PaleBlueDot.jpgA final thought: in the Latin tradition, the Mass is a solemn event, as the Mass re-enacts in liturgical form the Passion of Jesus Christ. Christ being lifted up on the Cross is not something traditional Latin Catholics want to be dancing around about.
see the little dot in the sunbeam on the right. thats a shot of the earth from the voyager spacecraft. I really, REALLY don’t think a God capable of creating us, in all our insignificant self-importance will look in shocked horror that few women are carrying incense as the Priest walks. I really can’t fathom that he’s that fickle.
(beautiful picture, eh? 4,000,000,000 miles from earth, we hang suspended in a ray of lights.)
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Br_Mark
Guest
Liturgical Dance is it ok ? As the documents state the cultural norm must be part of the evaluation regarding liturgical dance; as LilyM sated in her post. There is no question that liturgical dance is part of the culture of the Irish / Celtc Church.
Just a side note regarding a previous post; not only did David dance in front of the Holy of Holies, he danced naked.
Just a little advise; if you find liturgical dance offending you perhaps you should take heed of the directive from the gospels;
“If thy eye offends thee, then pluck it out”.
Br Mark, OSB
Just a side note regarding a previous post; not only did David dance in front of the Holy of Holies, he danced naked.
Just a little advise; if you find liturgical dance offending you perhaps you should take heed of the directive from the gospels;
“If thy eye offends thee, then pluck it out”.
Br Mark, OSB
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Goblin_Taters
Guest
According to this line of reasoning, God must not be shocked by human sin either, however “small” it may seem to us in relation to the cosmos.
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thechrismyster
Guest
you’re extrapolating my comments.
simply said, the girls dancing, that is the act i don’t think God cares about. Church Fathers disagreed on it. Saints disagreed on it. Popes (the last two) watched as people danced in front of them, and the swiss guard was never ordered once to start firing. It’s not a matter of faith or morals. It has nothing to do with doctrine or belief.
Dancing is much ado about nothing. When i read these posts about dancing being a horror, my first thought is that it’s a slow news day.
The only ones whos feather ruffle in these matters seems to be the same ones who attend Mass with a camcorder to catch any liturgical mistake (or… gasp…ABUSE) so the can say “GOTCHA” and parlay into a rant about the evils of vatican II.
Aren’t we all sick of those people yet on CA?? I am. it’s an old schtick. it’s tired.
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catherine_m
Guest
unfortunately, anything goes in a lot or churches in Ireland now. However, I have to say I have seen and heard worse!
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anamchara
Guest
I don’t think we should jump to the conclusion that it’s the norm in Ireland just because you find one parish that did this. I don’t know if what they did is allowed or not. I liked the music.
I liked the music. - Status