Is this right? Irish Catholics

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puzzleannie said:
there is nothing in the video or on its host website to suggest this is the norm in Ireland

walking gracefully is not by definition liturgical dance when it is done in church
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I read through the thread before I watched the video. I kept waiting for the girls to start dancing. That was definitely not liturgical dance. :nope:

I suppose if you have issues with girls near the altar at Mass, I could see the problem. 🤷
 
Jehu said:
Fortunately I have never witnessed anything like that before.
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Was it you who posted the video on youtube? Because the poster contacted me through youtube private messaging wondering why there were so many views in such a short time. I told him about Catholic Answers!
 
Not in my parish PLEASE. But I don’t think of it as dancing maybe rythmic walking. At least they were modestly dressed.
 
No, it’s not the norm. I saw something like this at Ennis Cathedral , Christmas 2001. Nobody had warned me, nor my brother-in-law. We both got the giggles (more from shock than anything else) which started everyone else in the pew giggling too. Finally the whole section of the cathedral was trying to stifle laughter. I heard later that was the last time there was anything like this.
I’ve never seen this in any other Mass I’ve attended in Ireland, and I’ve attended an awful lot.

Gearoidin
 
This isn’t liturgical dance. This is multiple female thurifers. I have seen many thurifers swing the thurible back and forth so more incense comes out. I even saw one swing it in several vertical circles. If this was dance, there certainly wasn’t much motion. If you don’t like it, fine. Stay away from Ballina, Co. Mayo, on Holy Thursday.

I don’t know how some people here can even make it through a Mass without the GIRM ticking in the backs of their heads. Why not focus on the worship of the Lord?

By the way, there is a strong tradition of Celtic Christianity, which from the time of St. Patrick through the 700s or so developed on its own.

Goodness!

John

PS: Thanks to the original poster for posting this. It was beautiful.
 
So, apparently they have vestal virgins in Ballina now …

My main problems with it are that a) it is not permitted within the rubrics of the liturgy, b) :dts: it is **not **a bona fide expression of traditional Celtic Christianity but rather dopey, modernist tripe, and c) just what is the frickin’ point, anyway? I mean, how on earth does this foster appreciation for the re-presentation of Christ’s sacrifice on the altar?

Bleecch!!
 
You know, perhaps nobody mentioned this, but it’s not so much the fact of the “liturgical dance” which I find disturbing here, but the fact that so many women are in the sanctuary. This is an abuse that has been accepted in, from what I understand, all but two dioceses in the United States. And yet, the Church and her Popes have clearly stated that women should not serve the priest at the altar, according to the long-standing venerable tradition of the Church.
 
No it’s not the norm in Ireland, and "River Dance it ain’t " sometimes fiddles are played at Mass, oh sorry, violins. 😉

Anyway what is the rule for ladies being in the Sanctuary ?
because if women aren’t allowed, then I can assure you that part isn’t kept to in Ireland.

As for dancing, I’ve two left feet, but I could manage a lot better than those young girls, so if it’s dancing, then I’m Fred Astaire. 🙂
 
Dancing is much ado about nothing. When i read these posts about dancing being a horror, my first thought is that it’s a slow news day.
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Nothing wrong with dancing, if it’s allowed. The problem is, dancing isn’t allowed in the Latin Rite.
The only ones whos feather ruffle in these matters seems to be the same ones who attend Mass with a camcorder to catch any liturgical mistake (or… gasp…ABUSE) so the can say “GOTCHA” and parlay into a rant about the evils of vatican II.

Aren’t we all sick of those people yet on CA?? I am. it’s an old schtick. it’s tired.
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If you live in a diocese where you can get a reverent mass that follows the rubrics, with no goofy innovations introduced on a regular basis, then please share it with us. I might take my children there on a field trip some day. 😛

As for people complaining on these forums, often it’s the only way they can vent their frustration. People just get worn down after a while If you’ve ever had to attend an abusive mass, in a diocese where multiple letters to the priest and bishop does nothing to correct the problem, then you might understand and/or sympathize. I don’t know why some Catholics constantly minimize liturgical abuses and act as if the ones complaining have the problem. What would you do if you found out your doctor or your banker or your accountant was just kind of doing their own thing rather than following established rules and precedents? Would you just shrug it off?

As for that video, that’s pretty darn close to liturgical dance, and looks very familiar to some liturgical dancing “performances” I’ve seen; the only difference is the girls aren’t wearing leotards and there’s no leaping. I’d be highly surprised if the rubrics allowed for it.:cool:
 
I watched the video and didn’t see any dancing.

I think those complaining about this being liturgical dance need to get out more and learn what dancing is. 😃

Jim
 
I find some of the comments here to be a bit offensive and even ignorant of other cultures and special occasions.

How many people who posted on this thread even knew what the girls were doing, when it was happening or why?

🤷
 
That is NOT the norm in ireland…

I am a roman catholic in ireland and i have nerer saw such disgraceful behaviour infront of the blessed sacrament.
it seemed like a pagan ritual
 
operaboz said:
That is NOT the norm in ireland…

I am a roman catholic in ireland and i have nerer saw such disgraceful behaviour infront of the blessed sacrament.
it seemed like a pagan ritual
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I thought it was reverent worship of Jesus Christ.

I saw nothing wrong with it and would’ve welcomed such a thing at my parish.

Jim
 
OMI said:
I think this would be a lot better.

ie.youtube.com/watch?v=LuNY2a6puh4&mode=related&search=
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^ What’s the wooden clapper-board thing?

I live in Northern Ireland. Female altar-boys are very common here. In fact more common than altar-boys.

Re: the Ballina Ritual, I don’t like it, it seemed creepy. The girls looked very awkward. It seems this type of thing is more about attempting to create a variety show, or to give glory to individuals as a way of ‘participating’ and making everyone feel ‘involved’.
 
The wooden clappers are used instead bells from the Gloria on Holy Thursday.
 
I remember clappers from pre-Vat II in Chicagoland.

Also, there is no current rule against women in the sanctuary. While it is certainly within the Holy Father’s authority to impose this rule he has not. Nor should he IMHO. He is not bound to observe any of the disciplinary decisions made by his predecessors. Notice he recently changed the rule for papal elections back to what they were.

John
 
Apart from the fact that there are so many of them, and they are carrying hand-held incense burners, I don’t see how it’s so different to the normal routine with an incense burner on a chain.

I wasn’t an altar boy, so to the untrained eye it looks like they process to the altar and receive the incense, kneel, swing it from side to side, kneel again, leave the altar and process before the blessed sacrament swinging the burner from side to side, and kneel at the altar of repose. It looks weird and would take me by surprise if it happened at my parish, but it didn’t look irreverent to me…
 
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