Is This the Death of the Catholic Church in Ireland?

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Is This the Death of the Catholic Church in Ireland?

COMMENTARY: There have been three key moments in the recent history of the Irish Church when leading bishops and priests could have chosen to strengthen the faith of the people. Instead, poor choices and inaction have weakened what remains.
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“There have been three key moments in the recent history of the Irish Church when leading bishops and priests could have chosen to strengthen the faith of the people. Instead, poor choices and inaction have weakened what remains.” But it didn’t happen, this article comments.
…
But "out of a population of nearly 5 million people, 734,300 Irish citizens had voted voted against same-sex marriage in 2015 despite the unrelenting propaganda from the Irish media, celebrities and political parties. "

“It is among these 734,300 people that the hope of the Catholic Church in Ireland’s resurrection is active and alive.”
 
I don’t know if it’s the death of the Catholic Church in Ireland…but it’s going to be the death of many innocent unborn babies…and people are rejoicing??..how much longer will God let the cries of these little ones in their mothers wombs go before he brings judgment on this world
 
Silly question. 1973 was not the “Death of the Catholic Church in the US”.
 
This is so depressing. How can they know what abortion is and yet repeal the eighth amendment. They were a beacon of pro-life conviction in the world and they have now thrown away the lives of thousands of children to look hip and progressive. Pathetic. I am so tired of losing legally and socially on every moral issue. When will it end? Ireland is dead to me.
 
It is sad and a body-blow, given that this is the first time (to my knowledge) abortion has been legalized courtesy of a popular vote (rather than through the judiciary or parliament), and a landslide one to boot. It had to be Ireland, didn’t it? Yes, you really have made history. I’m sure you are all dead proud of yourselves and tickled pink. :roll_eyes:

But it was entirely expected. The trend over the last number of years has been steadily evolving in this direction, of ever-increasing secularisation and loss of faith.

Ireland has really jettisoned its Catholic heritage, imho. Clearly, so many people over there reject basic moral principles of the religion.

I blame, among other things, the Tuam babies scandal and the pedophile cover-ups by members of the church hierarchy. The institutional failings of the church in Ireland, grave even by the standards of the worldwide child abuse crisis, have led to a serious diminution in its moral authority, which in turn naturally results in devastating consequences like this.

I honestly think that people are protesting against the church and it’s hitherto influential role in public life on the island.

Thus, the church hierarchy have to shoulder a huge burden of responsibility for these kinds of tragic outcomes. Just like it was in large measure to blame for the outbreak of the Protestant Reformation, the French Revolution etc.

Malta is now our last hope in Europe for the pro-life cause. Remains strong over there, despite all the odds…at least for now.
 
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And yes, that’s a related issue.

The church should never become too cosy with temporal authority.

Weren’t we supposed to have learned the perils of that error of judgement long ago?

If you cosy up to political forces when they are in the ascendant, you run the risk of tarnishing yourself when they inevitably nose-dive, thus dragging your fortunes down with them.

Christ’s kingdom is not of this world. He said so before Pontius Pilate. And we should pay heed to those solemn words.

The church just got it horribly wrong in post-independence Ireland. It makes me mad thinking about it. And I’m usually a cool-tempered, mild-mannered person.
 
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Indeed, the good always perish or suffer for the sins of the guilty, so it seems. I suppose that’s engraved into the very moral meaning of the crucifixion of Jesus itself, isn’t it?

I feel deeply for all of the truly great priests, religious and pious laymen who perform sterling acts of service on behalf of their church, local communities and country, and yet are being demonized on account of the wrongdoers.

But everything you say about the state pressure exerted upon people to feign social conformance with the faith is regrettably true and deplorable. It goes against our religion to compel religion in this manner, I can think of a quotation from the church father Tertullian about that very matter.

There’s no going back though. What’s done now cannot be undone. All that can be done from here-on-in is for the Irish Catholic Church to eat humble pie, wear proverbial sackcloth and ashes and take a good long hard look in the mirror, such that the root causes of this situation can be cleansed and a brighter tomorrow can at least be hoped for.

I have no doubt in my mind that today’s referendum result is testament to a moral failure on the part of the church as an institution in Eire, and that it is the hierarchy - more than any - who need to take stock of the reason why this has come to pass. It is a huge kick in the teeth to them. A landslide vote like this is a titanic statement. It wasn’t even anywhere near 50/50. Brexit in the UK and Trump in America, by comparison, were remarkably close run affairs. It’s a ridiculous margin of victory with mass public support for the pro-choice campaign if the exit polls turn out to be even half right. How much of an indictment is that?

If the church as a whole had been doing its job properly, then this surely wouldn’t have happened. Ireland isn’t the UK, with it’s historically liberal abortion legislation and cultural mores. Repealing the 8th amendment thus wasn’t some inevitable consequence of a socially progressive fate, like many people appear to think.

It is the outgrowth of all the contingent and eminently preventable historical factors we’ve just been discussing.
 
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Irish Times Voter Data by age:

18-25 : 87% yes
25-34 : 83% yes
35-49 : 74% yes
50-64 : 63% yes
65+ : 40% yes

Current tally is 68% yes to 32% no.
 
In other words, the people of Ireland are overwhelmingly pro-choice in every age group under and including people in their mid-60s.

Even a sizable number of the over-65s (40%) were in favour of abortion, if that poll turns out to be correct.
 
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People don’t listen to the Church. They can’t reason from science. This is what you get. Sadly it will get worse. But it’s not the death of the Church. It is receding in influence as it is almost everywhere.
 
We have here an overwhelming grassroots rejection of a central tenet of Catholic moral doctrine by a landslide majority of the public, across practically all ages, in a nation with a Catholic heritage that is woven into its very national identity.

I consider that to be a uniquely awful omen for the future and a sign of where we are at tbh.

On an unrelated point, just from my own personal musings, but how I wish that we’d had a landslide like that for remaining in the EU here in the UK…it seems like the truly moral causes never win these days. Brexit, Trump and now “pro-choice Ireland”. Can it possibly get any worse for my political and moral beliefs, I wonder? I’m frightened to see what the next piece of bad news will be…
 
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God help us…dark days for Ireland.
 
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I don’t agree with that poll, many young people are pro-life.
 
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I can’t help but think Ireland is being used as a guinea pig. Same sex marriage ref and now this…what next??
 
Euthanasia? :roll_eyes:

Perhaps that will be referendum 2025.

I predict, judging by the prevailing trend, that that one should pass with - oh, I don’t know - a conservative estimate might be 88% of the popular vote?
 
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The Irish legislators should stand up and defend unborn children and don’t be swayed by this vote to make a change to the law. If you live in Ireland, contact your elected officials and ask them to defend unborn children. There are have been plenty of times in the course of history where the voters have gone with the wrong side and this is one of them.

Science is constantly progressing and we are finding out more and more about the unborn and their progress in the womb and the effects of pregnancy on women. There exists amazing technology that allows people to see their baby in the womb. I hope that elected officials in Ireland will recognise that liberalising abortion law is the wrong course and won’t go down the disastrous path to repeal the 8th.
 
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The Irish legislators should stand up and defend unborn children and don’t be swayed by this vote to make a change to the law.
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When the public mandate is so incontrovertible that just isn’t going to happen. Elected lawmakers represent their constituents.

This isn’t like Brexit where you had a perishingly slim margin of victory by one side over the other and even then, Brexit is still going to happen because they won. Ireland isn’t split on this issue, it is (by the looks of things) pro-choice.

The will of the people will get what it demands. And democratically that is only fair.
 
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