Is this the reason some don't like the Catholic religion?

[mark_a]

Hello. Just a couple of comments from a Catholic perspective.

I grew up a Southern Baptist and a preachers kid. I’m use to a family atmosphere at church. If you walk into most evangelical protestant churches you will see happy people. You will see people who welcome, enjoy, and love one another.

We are taught that the inside of a Church is a place for reverence, which for Catholics excludes boisterous behavior and loud conversation. There are usually folks inside praying.

We went to a (very nice) Baptist baptismal service, and my kids were just as curious as to why the inside of the Baptist Church sounded like a cafeteria.

Relationships are bulit and nurtered by making visitors feel welcome and having activities outside of church that everyone can be apart of. For example it’s common for these churches to have potluck lunches after church. In my experience many protestants go to church because of the relationships that are built and nurtured through these activities.
This is where I don’t understand the Catholic Church. The more I think on and study the Gospels I see that Christianity is about relationships. It’s about relationships with God and relationships with others. Jesus made this clear with what he said in Matthew 22:37-40.

Before modern conveniences and before artificial birth control, folks weren’t as anxious to keep their 2.2 kids entertained in a Christian environment. Folks with large familiies just didn’t have time for it.

Because most Catholic parents have the 2.2 kids and all the modern conveniences, they find the day-long activities provided at Protestant churches very attractive.

When I was a kid, I had a Baptist friend that came from a very large family. Believe me, they did not need their chuch to fill their time OR provide a Christian environment.

One last comment, I find it interesting that Catholics refer to Protestant Christianity with phrases like “me and Jesus” and “personal relationship with Jesus”. From the outside the Catholic Church seems much more individualistic then the Protestant Church. .

That is an interesting observation. I will tell you this though, I have never developed friendships based on denomination affiliation. I was raised in a small town in the old South. Having lots of Catholic friends (or even one) wasn’t really an option.

Just something to think about

I will think about that a little more.

 

[distracted]

Are you married?

Yes… to Jesus… (only)

I am afraid i don’t understand much of the rest of your post… could you explain it again??

 

[excaliber]

Yes… to Jesus… (only)

I am afraid i don’t understand much of the rest of your post… could you explain it again??

It seems that a LOT of Catholics don’t know anyone in there parish.

If you are married to a catholic…its not AS big a deal, because atleast you know SOMEONE. If you are converting that helps.

If you have no family that’s Catholic…more then likely you are ALL ALONE…cus you aint getting help from your congregation.

 

[LilyM]

so that’s not just a Catholic thing? I always felt uncomfortable with that kind of over-friendliness myself (it seems 2b the opposite extreme of many Catholic Churches)… but i always thought i was like that because i was so… Catholic…

I just thought of something: Don’t u think it is a little odd for you (and me & others) to feel this way? I mean, don’t u think that is somewhat a comment on how… well, un-Christian the world is today - that we feel SO uncomfortable with that level of friendliness? I mean, in Heaven there is going to be LOVE… and Jesus said As it is in Heaven, so let it be on Earth (paraphrase)…
I don’t know… just a thoguht… Maybe we should all analyze exactly why this kind of thing makes us feel uncomfortable… Maybe there’s something… well, not quite right about it??
(I definitely do not mean to criticize… I am just being honest about my thoughts…)
I

Un-Christian? I don’t recall Jesus or any of the Apostles laying a finger on ANYONE who didn’t ask them to do so first! Let alone hugging, or praying over, random strangers for no apparent reason.

And where I come from ‘I feel called to pray over you’ is shorthand for ‘I think you have problems’ - and who wants to hear that, uninvited, from friends and family, let alone strangers?

 

[excaliber]

Un-Christian? I don’t recall Jesus or any of the Apostles laying a finger on ANYONE who didn’t ask them to do so first! Let alone hugging, or praying over, random strangers for no apparent reason.

And where I come from ‘I feel called to pray over you’ is shorthand for ‘I think you have problems’ - and who wants to hear that, uninvited, from friends and family, let alone strangers?

Your describing a Church that is EXTEMELY social. I realy don’t think we ever have to worry about
any of the Catholic churches around me going from extremely cold to extremely social.

Why not have two Churches?!?!
a place CAN be so cold that its not inhabitable. So why not balance it out, be a part of a congregation in another church…where there is such love that if you don’t make it to church, they even call and check on ya. Ofcourse learn the truth from the Catholic church, and worship there.

 

[LilyM]

Your describing a Church that is EXTEMELY social. I realy don’t think we ever have to worry about
any of the Catholic churches around me going from extremely cold to extremely social.

Why not have two Churches?!?!
a place CAN be so cold that its not inhabitable. So why not balance it out, be a part of a congregation in another church…where there is such love that if you don’t make it to church, they even call and check on ya. Ofcourse learn the truth from the Catholic church, and worship there.

I’m not a child or a hermit, I don’t need checking on by my church. I already have plenty of friends to give me that sort of love, if you don’t then I suggest you get a hobby or a job.

I go to church because Jesus is there, and having Him there I certainly don’t need anything else.

 

[excaliber]

I’m not a child or a hermit, I don’t need checking on by my church. I already have plenty of friends to give me that sort of love, if you don’t then I suggest you get a hobby or a job.

I go to church because Jesus is there, and having Him there I certainly don’t need anything else.

This will come as a shock…but everyone is not like you.

Jehovahs witnesses do not (if they follow there faith) THEY DON’T MAKE FRIENDS OUTSIDE OF THERE CHURCH.

After you absorbe what I just said…

And if a Jehovahs Witness joins another faith, they are viewd as DEAD by there Jw family and friends.As I told you jw’s are trained not to get close to family or anyone not JW.

Lets stop and think about that for a minuet…

Now put yourself in my shoes for a second.

So not only do I lose everything as far as relationships, but must join what HAS to be the lowest standard for a christian congregation on earth.

you have one priest trying to care for several churches…and as you have proven with your post…you have a congregation with no desire to fellowship. You actualy said you don’t need it, your outside friends are just as good.

That is a serious statement. You just put the personality of a Catholic on the same level as people outside the church. Which is why you see no need for fellowship in your church…if it was full of people with a christ like personality…YOU WOULD see the difference between them and everyone else, and you would want to associate with them.

If you are becoming like christ, then the world hates you because you are not of the world.

In that case YOU WOULD need encouragement from a congregation.

I think I am starting to get the picture…and it is a very bad one.

I definitely say JOIN TWO CHURCHES! Its a good chance your Catholic brothers and sisters…and priest for that matter, don’t even know you exist.
What do they care if you join another church. Its just you and Jesus anyway…so the decision is between you and Jesus.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

One reason some don’t like the Catholic Religion, and quiet frankly, its sometimes embarrassing for me, is when I see people flocking to images of the Blessed Mother, as the result of condensation that formed in the windows of a building, or seeing Jesus or Mother Teresa in a piece of pastry, or a cloud, and drawing attention to it through the media.

Its concerning when people come home from visiting Medjegoria, with pictures of clouds, claiming that Jesus image is in them, but no one can actually see it, without having it pointed out and explain by the person who took the picture.

The exhibits of religious fanaticism by Catholics, is what I think keeps some people away.

Jim

 

[distracted]

It seems that a LOT of Catholics don’t know anyone in there parish.

If you are married to a catholic…its not AS big a deal, because atleast you know SOMEONE. If you are converting that helps.

If you have no family that’s Catholic…more then likely you are ALL ALONE…cus you aint getting help from your congregation.

i have been alone for years… and i sometimes get the sense that some think it is not too Catholic to be alone (unless you are 80 yrs old or whatever)… but then, who knows? Maybe i am just overly sensitive… all i know is that something is not right because i have been treated very rudely by Catholics… esp lately for some reason… seems the closer i get to Jesus, the more i have to endure this… St. Faustina had to go trhough this kind of thing… so i am in good company… i guess… still, it is very weird… when you havne’t done anything to someone and they flip you junk anyway… I know Jesus said that “you will be hated by all because of me” but this is kind of ridiculous…

 

[Pug]

So not only do I lose everything as far as relationships, but must join what HAS to be the lowest standard for a christian congregation on earth.

excalibur,

It really sounds hard to leave the JWs. For many people, leaving every friendship they have behind would be too much. That you have had the character to do so in pursuit of the truth speaks well. I think you will find more friends, even if it takes some time. Some people are very slow to form friendships. We each are different that way.

Perhaps your new parish is a tough nut to crack. I’ve found that most parishes are not too tough, though. You just have to accept how Catholics do build their networks. So, where is your parish’s weak spot? Maybe they need help on a committee or the choir needs people or they have small study groups or a weekly prayer group or a group that gives services to the poor? I’ve found that as I slowly try different things within the parish, eventually I can’t get across a busy hallway without being forced to greet several people that I know.

Catholics seem to get to know each other in a parish through service roles as well as occasional social events (pancake breakfasts, fun fairs, family nights, etcs). Also, tough it out and even if you have no family, go the fun fair anyway. I had a great time doing that and chatting with all the booth operators.

BTW, I agree with you that having some friends who are faithful in Christ is very important. They truly help us to walk in Christ by setting an example and encouraging us, etc. But I disagree with JW practice (as described above) of not having friends outside of the parish. We are the salt of the earth. We need to be in the world and not of it. For me, this means being friends with people at work and other places. I mean actual friends, too. For me, this is part of bringing the light of Christ to the world.

 

[Rolltide]

Excaliber,
Something else that you have to understand is that you are moving from a relatively small denomination (where people will of course, by necessity, know each other, or the organization wouldn’t survive) into the largest single denomination on earth. One out of every four Americans is Catholic, and in some areas of some cities, that ratio can approach 50% or more. For many Catholics, the ordinary people and neighbors in our lives ARE the exact same community as the people we go to church with. When I was growing up, there were seven Catholic Churches in my town. I knew a large number of the parishoners in my particular parish of course, but I bet I knew at least 50-100 people in EACH of the other churches, simply because I knew so many Catholics from public school. On my street, there were 7 main families that I knew really well and had friends that I hung out with. Out of those, FOUR were Catholic. It’s a very interesting phenomenon when your denomination is in the position of dominance for so long. We sometimes take for granted the fact that even in our “worldly” lives, we’re often hanging around Catholics, and so we don’t use the social aspects of the church as much as newcomers do. Virtually every single Catholic friend that I have I met outside of church first. Then, when I joined church activities, I happened to be in the same group as them (or we volunteered together). I also promise you that the fellowship aspect of your church will get MUCH easier when RCIA starts in September, about 11 weeks from now (which is not that long). After you meet some people, I think you’ll change your perspective. If I remember correctly, you live in Ohio, and the state of Ohio has a Catholic population of around 18% (about 1 in every 5 people), so that should help too. That said, I can completely understand why its so hard to get your foot in the door.

 

[distracted]

I don’t recall Jesus or any of the Apostles laying a finger on ANYONE who didn’t ask them to do so first! Let alone hugging, or praying over, random strangers for no apparent reason.

hmmm… neither do i…

Do you think that… well, that Jesus might have been Catholic??

And where I come from ‘I feel called to pray over you’ is shorthand for ‘I think you have problems’ - and who wants to hear that, uninvited, from friends and family, let alone strangers?

i hear you… I always think/feel the same way when someone says such a thing… which makes me like/love the cahtolic Church more than ever… There, i am left alone…
true, sometimes that is taken to extremes… Or is it?? Hmmm… No, actually, the thing that bothers me the most about Catholics is that when they DO pay attention to you, they are sometimes… mean and/or cold… or wht have you…

but anyway, its a good thing… makes me love /appreciate Jesus more… :console:

 

[Mark_Robert]

Catholic christians should bear the testimony in their personal lives of being set apart for the Lord. Being holy means being different from the world. Hence, if Catholics are just as cold and unloving as unbelievers, the power of God’s love is not apparent to those outside the church. We must therefore bear friut as a living testimony that God is real and changes the hearts of those who believe.

 

[BSHoop96]

Catholic christians should bear the testimony in their personal lives of being set apart for the Lord. Being holy means being different from the world. Hence, if Catholics are just as cold and unloving as unbelievers, the power of God’s love is not apparent to those outside the church. We must therefore bear friut as a living testimony that God is real and changes the hearts of those who believe.

Hmmmm…you haven’t read the whole thread have you??? I do that too sometimes when I haven’t gotten in on the beginning, but in this case, I think you really need to.

 

[Mystic_of_God]

I sometimes feel that people are anti-Catholic not so much because of the doctrines and practices of the Church but because… well, the Catholics themselves are kind of… (don’t know what word to use)… I guess i would have to say They are sometimes cold, un-caring (seemingly) and, well, not very “spiritual”…

I have been to AA meetings and people there seem (usually) pretty down-to-earth … They talk about the things they are dealing with in their lives… they admit mistakes… they empathize with one another and everyone can usually relate to one another…

It seems that in my Catholic experience, everyone just keeps to him or herself… I think that people think that if you have Jesus, you don’t need people… and Who knows - maybe you don’t (??)… I mean, if people are going to be like that, i guess i don’t…

I just murdered fifty people. Now are you happy?

(sarcasm alert, some things in this post sound fantastic, and are)

 

[BSHoop96]

I have been to AA meetings and people there seem (usually) pretty down-to-earth … They talk about the things they are dealing with in their lives… they admit mistakes… they empathize with one another and everyone can usually relate to one another…

This is comparing apples and oranges! Two totally different situations…AA meeting…Mass.

 

[excaliber]

This is comparing apples and oranges! Two totally different situations…AA meeting…Mass.

I think the point is that there was fellowship. Dosent matter what reason people were gatherd.

Peole together for a common reason normaly equals fellowship.

Now you put a lot of Christ like people together, you should have fellowship.

but for some reason in this situation 1 plus 1 do not equal 2.

Ok so there are many Catholics.
I know jw’s all over my city…but there is something special about YOUR CONGREGATION.

But that’s different for catholics and I don’t know why…ok so many in your city are catholic…
Why dose this make YOUR CONGREGATION any less important??? I don’t get that part.

 

[BSHoop96]

I think the point is that there was fellowship. Dosent matter what reason people were gatherd.

Peole together for a common reason normaly equals fellowship.

Now you put a lot of Christ like people together, you should have fellowship.

but for some reason in this situation 1 plus 1 do not equal 2.

Ok so there are many Catholics.
I know jw’s all over my city…but there is something special about YOUR CONGREGATION.

But that’s different for catholics and I don’t know why…ok so many in your city are catholic…
Why dose this make YOUR CONGREGATION any less important??? I don’t get that part.

I’m not the poster talking about a lot of Catholics in my city.

Of course it matters where people are gathered and why! What if it was a funeral? The atmosphere would be totally different than that of a wedding.

Of course people talk, share and tell their stories at an AA meeting. That is the purpose of an AA meeting. The purpose of Mass is to worship. There is plenty of fellowship at my parish from the coffee and donuts after mass, to Inquiry, RCIA, Choir, Stephen Ministry, Rosary Group, Adult Education, Book Club, Paula’s Daughters, just to name a few.

To expect something comparable to AA to happen at Mass is unreasonable and an unfair comparison, and frankly, I am suprised that it comes from a Catholic. I understand that a protestant may not understand the emphasis that the Mass is the “source and summit” of our faith, and therefore, may not understand how we approach Mass. Reverence during your service, protestant or Catholic, does not mean unfriendliness.

 

[Rolltide]

I’m not the poster talking about a lot of Catholics in my city.

Of course it matters where people are gathered and why! What if it was a funeral? The atmosphere would be totally different than that of a wedding.

Of course people talk, share and tell their stories at an AA meeting. That is the purpose of an AA meeting. The purpose of Mass is to worship. There is plenty of fellowship at my parish from the coffee and donuts after mass, to Inquiry, RCIA, Choir, Stephen Ministry, Rosary Group, Adult Education, Book Club, Paula’s Daughters, just to name a few.

To expect something comparable to AA to happen at Mass is unreasonable and an unfair comparison, and frankly, I am suprised that it comes from a Catholic. I understand that a protestant may not understand the emphasis that the Mass is the “source and summit” of our faith, and therefore, may not understand how we approach Mass. Reverence during your service, protestant or Catholic, does not mean unfriendliness.

Please read post 113 on the following thread for some background on Excaliber’s story. He is a former JW, and they are non-Trinitarian and convinced that the world will end in our lifetime. His experience has been almost that of a cult (just so you understand where he’s coming from):

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=245549&page=8

 

[BSHoop96]

Please read post 113 on the following thread for some background on Excaliber’s story. He is a former JW, and they are non-Trinitarian and convinced that the world will end in our lifetime. His experience has been almost that of a cult (just so you understand where he’s coming from):

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=245549&page=8

My fault…I just confused him with someone else on that last post…I know he’s not Catholic.

I am still frustrated with him though because we have over and over tried to explain that it is not unfriendliness. We have offered many suggestions of things he can do to involve himself (Inquiry and RCIA among them). He continues to want us to be “friendly” in the way that he is used to in his past. At the same time he’s desperately trying to remove himself from his past experience. There’s a lesson in there somewhere. All is not always what it seems.

I am not unsympathetic to his plight and have no doubt that you can find some unfriendly people anywhere but for him to repeatedly say that Catholics are cold and unfriendly by his limited experience is like me not liking my children’s teachers because they are too strict and then saying “all teachers are too strict.”