Is this the reason some don't like the Catholic religion?

[excaliber]

My fault…I just confused him with someone else on that last post…I know he’s not Catholic.

I am still frustrated with him though because we have over and over tried to explain that it is not unfriendliness. We have offered many suggestions of things he can do to involve himself (Inquiry and RCIA among them). He continues to want us to be “friendly” in the way that he is used to in his past. At the same time he’s desperately trying to remove himself from his past experience. There’s a lesson in there somewhere. All is not always what it seems.

I am not unsympathetic to his plight and have no doubt that you can find some unfriendly people anywhere but for him to repeatedly say that Catholics are cold and unfriendly by his limited experience is like me not liking my children’s teachers because they are too strict and then saying “all teachers are too strict.”

I understand what role tide is saying.

However I am interested in what your standard is for christian love.

If a convert calls a church explaining that he is new and lost at mass ( believe it or not this can happen before or after inquiry and rcia) and that church says “well we will call you in 6 months when rcia starts” and literally leaves the convert with no help or even a greeting for 6 months…is that what you call a warm and compashionate church?

How low is your standard for compashion?

but role tide is correct…if you come to a large catholic church unanounced then yes it would be hard for them to tell if you were new.

 

[Pug]

excaliber,

Has someone suggested you try the coming home network? I know, I think of it as just for ex-pastors, and maybe it is, I don’t know, but they would have had lots of people there who lost their living and place of residence and stuff on account of converting. Maybe they’d have ideas, support, or help for you?

They talk like this on their webpage:

Are you a non-Catholic pastor or layman with interest in the Catholic Church?
The purpose of The Coming Home Network International (CHNetwork) is to provide fellowship, encouragement and support for pastors and laymen of other traditions (Protestant, Orthodox, etc…) who are somewhere along the journey or have already converted to the Catholic Church. The CHNetwork is committed to assisting and standing beside all inquirers, serving as a friend and an advocate.

I think this is their website: chnetwork.org/

 

[LilyM]

I understand what role tide is saying.

However I am interested in what your standard is for christian love.

If a convert calls a church explaining that he is new and lost at mass ( believe it or not this can happen before or after inquiry and rcia) and that church says “well we will call you in 6 months when rcia starts” and literally leaves the convert with no help or even a greeting for 6 months…is that what you call a warm and compashionate church?

How low is your standard for compashion?

but role tide is correct…if you come to a large catholic church unanounced then yes it would be hard for them to tell if you were new.

Sounds like a) an incredibly busy, probably way overly busy and underresourced, church/parish and

b) one that perhaps should have explained that the purpose of RCIA, among other things, is that it is where you learn about the Mass, and that to go through bits of it with an RCIA candidate individually is basically asking for an early start to RCIA. There’s a reason why converts are put through RCIA instead of individual tuition, apart from very exeptional circumstances, and that’s because to do things individually would be a real drain on resources.

This is all presuming that your ‘being lost’ in Mass is about not understanding what’s actually going on rather than your feeling alone or unwelcome, which is not the priest’s or parish’s job to rectify, rather yours to introduce yourself to people, find out about and get involved in whatever groups or ministries you can.

I’m not condoning their leaving it at that, though, not in the slightest. At the least they shouldve recommended where you could buy a basic Order of Mass booklet that has the prayers in it, with perhaps something like ‘The Lamb’s Supper’ by Dr Scott Hahn or ‘Catholicism for Dummies’ by Fr John Trigilo to give you a broader sense of what happens during the Mass.

Point is, I’m sure in the majority of parishes the above at a minimum is what they would’ve done, and that the one that didn’t is the exception and not the rule.

 

[BSHoop96]

I understand what role tide is saying.

However I am interested in what your standard is for christian love.

If a convert calls a church explaining that he is new and lost at mass ( believe it or not this can happen before or after inquiry and rcia) and that church says “well we will call you in 6 months when rcia starts” and literally leaves the convert with no help or even a greeting for 6 months…is that what you call a warm and compashionate church?

How low is your standard for compashion?

but role tide is correct…if you come to a large catholic church unanounced then yes it would be hard for them to tell if you were new.

ONCE AGAIN…I am not saying you did not encounter people that are not as helpful as they should be. Or a church that doesn’t have enough people involved in a ministry to help you. I am saying that you cannot judgeALL catholics and the Catholic church as unfriendly because of this. You are being very judgmental about the whole church because of your experience at this church. Let me ask this? Did you make one call or did you call back? People are human. Priests are busy. It could have been inadvertent.

And because I don’t agree you question how low my standard for compassion is???

And since you asked, my standard for christian love is:* Love thy neighbor as thyself. *And while I’m doing that I try not to judge him too severely if he has fallen short of what I think he should be.

 

[excaliber]

ONCE AGAIN…I am not saying you did not encounter people that are not as helpful as they should be. Or a church that doesn’t have enough people involved in a ministry to help you. I am saying that you cannot judgeALL catholics and the Catholic church as unfriendly because of this. You are being very judgmental about the whole church because of your experience at this church. Let me ask this? Did you make one call or did you call back? People are human. Priests are busy. It could have been inadvertent.

And because I don’t agree you question how low my standard for compassion is???

And since you asked, my standard for christian love is:* Love thy neighbor as thyself. *And while I’m doing that I try not to judge him too severely if he has fallen short of what I think he should be.

This is the problem with internet forums, its hard to understand a post. here I have had a difficult time with the churches I have been to.

now how did this get turned around to me saying every Catholic church on the planet is cold?? sorta silly when I have only been to mabey 4 or 5 of them.

This happens all the time. I say I agree with the op because the churches I have been to seem cold.
then someone fabricates an argument out of thin air…and then argue vigorously against an imagined argument.

for example changing “the catholic churches I have been to seem cold” to “every catholic church on earth is cold”

I am also interested in how greeting a newcomer is a drain on resources?
Is that not treating your neighbors as you would like to be treated?

Or if I saw you stranded by the road, should I leave you there and say there is a truck that picks up strandid people coming in september…I could help now but it would drain my resources.

What you say makes no sence because people on this website help others…role tide for example. But you don’t think having a conversation here is a waste of time?

 

[excaliber]

Sounds like a) an incredibly busy, probably way overly busy and underresourced, church/parish and

b) one that perhaps should have explained that the purpose of RCIA, among other things, is that it is where you learn about the Mass, and that to go through bits of it with an RCIA candidate individually is basically asking for an early start to RCIA. There’s a reason why converts are put through RCIA instead of individual tuition, apart from very exeptional circumstances, and that’s because to do things individually would be a real drain on resources.

This is all presuming that your ‘being lost’ in Mass is about not understanding what’s actually going on rather than your feeling alone or unwelcome, which is not the priest’s or parish’s job to rectify, rather yours to introduce yourself to people, find out about and get involved in whatever groups or ministries you can.

I’m not condoning their leaving it at that, though, not in the slightest. At the least they shouldve recommended where you could buy a basic Order of Mass booklet that has the prayers in it, with perhaps something like ‘The Lamb’s Supper’ by Dr Scott Hahn or ‘Catholicism for Dummies’ by Fr John Trigilo to give you a broader sense of what happens during the Mass.

Point is, I’m sure in the majority of parishes the above at a minimum is what they would’ve done, and that the one that didn’t is the exception and not the rule.

mabey you are correct…mabey that church was over worked.

Lets agree to disagree about who’s job it is to make newcomers feel welcome, we don’t have to argue everything. I have been to a church where someone stood at the door and handed books to everyone who came in…this was very kind and hospitable.

the little things help. for example every now and again there won’t be enuff song books or something at a pew…if a person were to share there book…its a small thing…but very kind.
Now I am not saying that knowone dose these things…but its the little things that go a looooong way.

but lets not argue that point if you feel different that’s ok.

I don’t think you have to catechise every newcomer individualy…no…
you are right THAT could drain resources.
But what I am talking about is smiles…we don’t run out of smiles…and they make people feel good. How about a hello on the way out…you can say hi like 10 times and not be drained.

Don’t be over friendly, but a hi how are you is great. If the person says fine…then they walk away feeling “hey that was a nice person”
If the person says well I am new here…mabey tell them your name…or tell them about some groups that you know about etc…etc… dosent have to be to much.

There is a reason why I think the churches around me are cold, and its not just catholics…Jehovahs witness churches with the same type of people are also cold…so Im not trying to single out just catholics.

 

[distracted]

, if Catholics are just as cold and unloving as unbelievers, the power of God’s love is not apparent to those outside the church. We must therefore bear friut as a living testimony that God is real and changes the hearts of those who believe.

Very true…

I think the problem is that many people go to Church, but are not converted in the very core of their being… which would explain their not being very loving, as Christ commands us to be…

It seems that with a lot of people, the Word goes in one ear and out the other…

I used to be like that … when i was a lot younger… We need to pray over such people…

**

 

[BSHoop96]

This is the problem with internet forums, its hard to understand a post. here I have had a difficult time with the churches I have been to.

now how did this get turned around to me saying every Catholic church on the planet is cold?? sorta silly when I have only been to mabey 4 or 5 of them.

This happens all the time. I say I agree with the op because the churches I have been to seem cold.
then someone fabricates an argument out of thin air…and then argue vigorously against an imagined argument.

for example changing “the catholic churches I have been to seem cold” to “every catholic church on earth is cold”

I am also interested in how greeting a newcomer is a drain on resources?
Is that not treating your neighbors as you would like to be treated?

Or if I saw you stranded by the road, should I leave you there and say there is a truck that picks up strandid people coming in september…I could help now but it would drain my resources.

What you say makes no sence because people on this website help others…role tide for example. But you don’t think having a conversation here is a waste of time?

Excalibur…once again you have twisted an answer. The poster did not say that “greeting newcomers is a drain”. Many people on this forum have expressed regret that you have had such a hard time. We have given examples of our own churches to show you that your experience is not the norm. We gave you many suggestions for different ways of connecting. Then when those weren’t satisfactory (RCIA doesn’t start till Sept. for example), we tried to give you some answers as to why things are the way they are.

No answer will satisfy you, just as the 4 or 5 churches you went to did not satisfy you, nor the people at the 4 or 5 churches. To continue this conversation has become pointless as I now see that no answer will satisfy you. Good luck.

 

[KingAlfred]

I sometimes feel that people are anti-Catholic not so much because of the doctrines and practices of the Church but because… well, the Catholics themselves are kind of… (don’t know what word to use)… I guess i would have to say They are sometimes cold, un-caring (seemingly) and, well, not very “spiritual”…

I have been to AA meetings and people there seem (usually) pretty down-to-earth … They talk about the things they are dealing with in their lives… they admit mistakes… they empathize with one another and everyone can usually relate to one another…

It seems that in my Catholic experience, everyone just keeps to him or herself… I think that people think that if you have Jesus, you don’t need people… and Who knows - maybe you don’t (??)… I mean, if people are going to be like that, i guess i don’t…

I must confess that often Catholics define themselves and their faith in terms of obedience to rules. This is a typically human tendency – to reduce the complex to something simple. Many evangelical Christians do it as well, by reducing all of Christianity to the Bible, as if it were God Himself. One’s sense of religiosity or devotion is subjected to a contest of sorts, to see who knows the Bible the best. Often Catholics hold the same kind of contest, to see who obeys the Magisterium the best. These unintentional, and well meaning distortions omit the human factor of the Christian religion and way of life, which, IMO, is the most important part. While I respect and try to obey the Church’s authority in all aspects of life, and love its history, I tend to cling to, favor and emphasize Christian humanism. To me, that’s what Jesus was all about.

 

[distracted]

I must confess that often Catholics define themselves and their faith in terms of obedience to rules.

well, i wouldn’t call them juyst “rules”… They are important truths (realities)… that some people only see as “rules”… (non-Catholids)

Many evangelical Christians do it as well, by reducing all of Christianity to the Bible, as if it were God Himself.

so true…

Christian religion and way of life, which, IMO, is the most important part.

Amen…

While I respect and try to obey the Church’s authority in all aspects of life, and love its history, I tend to cling to, favor and emphasize Christian humanism. To me, that’s what Jesus was all about.

humanism?? I don’t like that word… but maybe i am not understanding what you mean?

 

[Carjack1]

I was leaning toward the Catholic religion and then found out about birth control and rules about how to have sexual intercourse with my husband. That is what I am not liking about the Catholic religion.

 

[Pug]

I was leaning toward the Catholic religion and then found out about birth control and rules about how to have sexual intercourse with my husband. That is what I am not liking about the Catholic religion.

A lot of the world currently says one thing about those topics and the Catholic Church and some others say something else. I don’t think what matters is which is easier or more agreeable (I’m not saying that is what you meant). What matters is which is right. If the Catholic Church is right about those things, then that is a mark in her favor.

I think they are right! It comes down to how you know where truth is, and does anyone teach with authority in this world.

 

[excaliber]

A lot of the world currently says one thing about those topics and the Catholic Church and some others say something else. I don’t think what matters is which is easier or more agreeable (I’m not saying that is what you meant). What matters is which is right. If the Catholic Church is right about those things, then that is a mark in her favor.

I think they are right! It comes down to how you know where truth is, and does anyone teach with authority in this world.

I understand why this is a hard teaching to follow.

But if God wants you to have who knows how many children…is it not reasonable for God to help you care for all of them, with gas up to about 4 dollars a gallon?

If anyone follows this teaching…and canot provide for this LARGE family…then we have a problem…a serious problem.

 

[Pug]

I understand why this is a hard teaching to follow.

So do I.

But if God wants you to have who knows how many children…is it not reasonable for God to help you care for all of them, with gas up to about 4 dollars a gallon?

Yes. When God wants us to do something, he gives us the grace/support we need to do it.

If anyone follows this teaching…and canot provide for this LARGE family…then we have a problem…a serious problem.

Sometimes people get confused and think that the teaching is that every couple must have as many children as their bodies will have in the time before age 50. But the teaching is not that. A couple is supposed to look at the needs of their family and pray about what to do. Sometimes a couple will discern that they should abstain from relations for a time (then there will be no children at that time). It is true that having a large family is a blessing in Catholic thought. Not everyone is called to that, though. Sometimes a couple determines that they need to wait or space their children.

EDIT: Oh, the method of abstaining during the wife’s fertile times (during part of the month) is okay to do in Catholic teaching. It doesn’t have to be total abstaining.

 

[excaliber]

So do I.

Yes. When God wants us to do something, he gives us the grace/support we need to do it.

Sometimes people get confused and think that the teaching is that every couple must have as many children as their bodies will have in the time before age 50. But the teaching is not that. A couple is supposed to look at the needs of their family and pray about what to do. Sometimes a couple will discern that they should abstain from relations for a time (then there will be no children at that time). It is true that having a large family is a blessing in Catholic thought. Not everyone is called to that, though. Sometimes a couple determines that they need to wait or space their children.

EDIT: Oh, the method of abstaining during the wife’s fertile times (during part of the month) is okay to do in Catholic teaching. It doesn’t have to be total abstaining.

hey that’s cool!!!
Im single so I can’t have sex anyway.
But now married coupls can’t have sex eather LOL.

Better take a cold shower before that honey moon LOL.

 

[Pug]

hey that’s cool!!!
Im single so I can’t have sex anyway.
But now married coupls can’t have sex eather LOL.

Better take a cold shower before that honey moon LOL.

Hey, I’m already married…SPLOOSH! SPLOOSH!

Love that cold water, man.

 

[excaliber]

Hey, I’m already married…SPLOOSH! SPLOOSH!

Love that cold water, man.

Hahahahaha
your gona give me a charley hourse in my laugh muscle!!!

just have hlow many kids you want…then sit back and get SLOPY FAT!!!

Then you won’t want each other…
If you like slopy fat girls…then go back to the iron chastity under wear.

LOL

sorry we are having to much fun aren’t we.

 

[Pug]

Iron chastity belts!:bigyikes:

:doh2: This afternoon I added a new signature line to my profile and now that I look back at my last post to you, boy is it ironic in combination with what I wrote! I’ll have to watch it or I’ll start dropping visitors like flies in stitches of laughter.

 

[KingAlfred]

“Humanism?? I don’t like that word… but maybe i am not understanding what you mean?”

The Beatitudes, and acts of charity. The mission to the down-trodden and those who suffer. In essence, the work of Jesus.

 

[distracted]

. We have offered many suggestions of things he can do to involve himself (Inquiry and RCIA among them). He continues to want us to be “friendly” in the way that he is used to in his past.

I am Catholic and i would like the Church to be a little more friendly the way i think of friendly - myself… There ARE things wrong in the Church… Are you one of those Catholics who doesn’t want to admit to such a thing??

At the same time he’s desperately trying to remove himself from his past experience.

i haven’t found that to be the case… In fact, i was wondering if he is TOO focused on the past… he brings it up a lot. I used to do that myself… but then i just told myself (after all the beating up of myself that i did): I did the best i could with what i had at the time… I am a human being. I also had to tell myself that about others who had hurt me… that they are human also… but it is a process… and we should not have impatience with people because they are where they are and only God Himself understands where they “are”, emotionally, sprititually, or what have you… Life isn’t like TV, where situations are resolved in an hour… I just think you are being a little too impatient…

…There’s a lesson in there somewhere. All is not always what it seems.

What do you mean by this??