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Kristine1957
Guest
Yes they can now
But, before 1978 the black people were only allowed to be bapitzed in the Mormon church and nothing eles.
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But, before 1978 the black people were only allowed to be bapitzed in the Mormon church and nothing eles.
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dosdog
Guest
Black Skin and the Seed of Cain
Brigham Young taught a much greater extreme. In a sermon given on March 8, 1863, Young stated, “Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so” (Journal of Discourses, 10:110).
mrm.org/topics/miscellaneous/black-skin-and-seed-cain
third LDS President John Taylor And after the flood we are told that the curse that had been pronounced upon Cain was continued through Ham’s wife, Because it was necessary that the devil should have a representation upon the earth as well as God" (Journal of Discourses 22:304).
2 Nephi 9:15: “And it shall come to pass that when all men shall have passed from this first death unto life, insomuch as they have become immortal, they must appear before the judgment seat of the Holy One of Israel,…For the Lord God hath spoken it, and it is his eternal word, which cannot pass away, that they who are righteous shall be righteous still, and they who are filthy shall be filthy still; wherefore, they who are filthy…shall go away into everlasting fire, prepared for them; and their torment is as a lake of fire and brimstone, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever and has no end.”
Men have the same talents and intelligence there, which they had in this life. They possess the same attitudes, inclinations, and feelings there which they had in this life" (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 2d ed., p.762)
One, there was no biblical reason for the discrimination in the first place; and two, there was no precedent according to Mormonism to lift it.
mrm.org/topics/miscellaneous/black-skin-and-seed-cain
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Kristine1957
Guest
Has anyone seen this film on Mormonism? The Godmakers. I think its alittle dramatic however, it seems to me its pretty accurate about what they teach.
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video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6730898643435353781
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video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6730898643435353781
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distracted
Guest
Gee - I know a lot of people who should be dead right now! Actually, mixed race children, generally speaking, score higher on IQ tests than children of only one (?) race, somethng that has been documented in more than one study… It is a fact of genetics that the more different the genes of the mother from those of the father, the better the health - IQ, etc… of the child… Not that some children are superior to others, regardless of IQ level … In God’s eyes, we are all equal (i hate when people speak of birth DEFECTS… as if some people are defective…
). Anyway, apparently, there is less mental retardation w/ racially mixed people…
I can’t believe people actually swallow this nonsense…
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PaulDupre
Guest
God bless us all to be decent people,
Paul
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Potato1
Guest
One does a huge disservice to the cause of equality when they throw out rediculous stats such as these. Race, mixed, pure, white, black, asian, south american… We are all equal. Your argument only cherry picks stats to back your point, the same thing racists do with prison populataions etc. Did you know that more eskimos are killed in alaska than any other state, alaskans must hate eskimos. Stop comparing contrasting, pitting mixed races against others in contests of who has the largest “retarded population” Almost as sickening and misled as white supremecy. Shame on you.Gee - I know a lot of people who should be dead right now! Actually, mixed race children, generally speaking, score higher on IQ tests than children of only one (?) race, somethng that has been documented in more than one study… It is a fact of genetics that the more different the genes of the mother from those of the father, the better the health - IQ, etc… of the child… Not that some children are superior to others, regardless of IQ level … In God’s eyes, we are all equal (i hate when people speak of birth DEFECTS… as if some people are defective…
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rtconstant
Guest
Well, I’m leary of jumping on a bandwagon of bashing for certain beliefs when I’m not 100% sure about what their official stance is. I’ve heard a mormon speak of the “ruling a planet” thing before. Maybe he was mistaken since I’ve never made a study of Mormonism except in the most vague of senses I can’t say.
I do want speak to the Mark of Cain though. I don’t know if this was ever official teaching for the LDS. It would seem that historically it was held by at least some influential leaders. However, I can say that they didn’t invent that belief and they were not alone in holding to it.
When I was little I was actually taught that in my Southern Baptist Church. I was not disabused notion until my teens. Now obviously not all Southern Baptists believed that and today I’m sure its rare. Also it certainly isn’t “official” teaching nor has it ever been. What is truly sad is that I was taught this (and that races shouldn’t mix) in such confident terms that I didn’t even perceive them as hurtful or racist. I just thought it was an understood thing. It wasn’t until I was teen and was shocked to find out I was offending people that I started to wonder about it.
Eventually I found out that this legend was more or less invented to justify slavery. My own SBC roots adopted this belief after the split of the Northern and Southern Baptists during the Civil War. Many ministers also taught that there was a seperate heaven for whites and blacks.
I was (and still am) horrified that I had so blindly accepted something so terrible just because I was taught it in Church. It woke me up to questioning what I’m told.
So while that many in the LDS may have held to a belief in the “curse of Cain” the culprit is more likely to be the horrid racist mindset of the era and not any particular to Mormonism.
I do want speak to the Mark of Cain though. I don’t know if this was ever official teaching for the LDS. It would seem that historically it was held by at least some influential leaders. However, I can say that they didn’t invent that belief and they were not alone in holding to it.
When I was little I was actually taught that in my Southern Baptist Church. I was not disabused notion until my teens. Now obviously not all Southern Baptists believed that and today I’m sure its rare. Also it certainly isn’t “official” teaching nor has it ever been. What is truly sad is that I was taught this (and that races shouldn’t mix) in such confident terms that I didn’t even perceive them as hurtful or racist. I just thought it was an understood thing. It wasn’t until I was teen and was shocked to find out I was offending people that I started to wonder about it.
Eventually I found out that this legend was more or less invented to justify slavery. My own SBC roots adopted this belief after the split of the Northern and Southern Baptists during the Civil War. Many ministers also taught that there was a seperate heaven for whites and blacks.
I was (and still am) horrified that I had so blindly accepted something so terrible just because I was taught it in Church. It woke me up to questioning what I’m told.
So while that many in the LDS may have held to a belief in the “curse of Cain” the culprit is more likely to be the horrid racist mindset of the era and not any particular to Mormonism.
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Paul_G
Guest
The source of BY’s statements is Old Testament Law, what I’m getting at is that many use quotes that they haven’t read, nor do they suggest why forcing today’s “political correctness” on 19th century cultural thought and practice is a valid criticism. Perhaps you could offer one.I have no idea where Brigham came up with his ideas.I do know that he was telling his followers since negro’s are from the seed of cain the white people better not be messing around with them.
It’s a small thing, your cut and paste snippet reads as is, but the source is incorrect - it is (Vol. 10 pg 109)
Cheers,
Paul
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PaulDupre
Guest
Are you kidding? It was OT law that interracial marriages were punishable by death?? You are sadly mistaken. The Mosaic prohibition was on marriage to pagans, not to blacks. Your church has seriously misled you on this, as they have on so many things. It is only LDS “scripture” that has racist teachings.
Lord, have mercy.
Paul
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Paul_G
Guest
You ask if I was kidding, you really must read what one says before you attribute something to that person.
Was there a distinction made?
Only anti-Mormon jargon here, you have not addressed my comment at all
Paul
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PaulDupre
Guest
You wrote that the source of BY’s statements (that blacks are the seed of Cain and that interracial marriage is punishable by death) was OT law. I challenge you to show us where the OT says either of these things.
Paul
Paul
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Paul_G
Guest
Thank you much better, B.Y. did say this, delicious to the anti-Mormon, transitional two sentence snippet. I don’t know where he understood this from, I could only speculate as to its use. Although, the topic he was discussing in this talk was definitely not racist in nature, quite the opposite in fact. You should read it then comment. Still no comment on my remarks though.
Paul
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PaulDupre
Guest
I have read the entire BY sermon as recorded in the JoD. I have also read and studied the OT, while it appears that you have not. I would suggest you carefully read the entire bible, beginning to end. It will be a life-changing experience.
Best wishes,
Paul
Best wishes,
Paul
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PaulDupre
Guest
The notion that blacks are descendants of Cain was common Protestant doctrine originating in the days of the slave trade. It has no biblical basis and was created to justify the enslavement of Africans. Funny that Joseph Smith included these notions in his Book of Moses and Book of Abraham, which are fictions fabricated in the 1830s. The prohibition on white/black marriage was the product of the same racist mentality. The Mormons inherited it from their Protestant progenitors. Joseph Smith and Brigham Young and their successors claimed to teach these vile things by divine decree. That was just another step lower into the pit. We can’t completely excuse the racists of the 1800s as natural products of their environment, because there were many abolitionists who were products of that same environment.
Best wishes,
Paul
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Rbt_Southwell
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Rbt_Southwell
Guest
Paul G,
This is your reply to Paul Dupre’s shock of your wild-hair assertion.
We read it. I reposted it.
Where in the OT did you find support for your assertion??
Robert
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PaulDupre
Guest
After my challenge to show where the OT says this:
I suspect you were temporarily confused and thought Joseph Smith’s Book of Moses was part of the OT, when in fact it is a 19th century work of fiction. It says
God love you,
Paul
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Paul_G
Guest
Where do you find (now here’s a hint) “my” assertions that I need to support. Have a good evening Rbt.
Paul
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Paul_G
Guest
Is that all you can offer “you were temporarily confused…” I refuse to engage in this uninformative rhetoric. So spout your stuff, I’m sure you’ll have an audience. So I’ll leave it with you.
Paul
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Rbt_Southwell
Guest
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