Is This What Protestantism Is Really About??

[JRKH]

Originally Posted by Contarini
Balderdash. When soundly refuted from primary sources, you make the ludicrous claim that Fordham University’s excellent sourcebook is an “anti-Catholic website.”

Sad - So Very Sad.
It is my Prayer that OTCA will be able to grow in his abilities and thereby gain more souls for Christ.
As for now, his amatuerish methods and reluctance to take advise are only hurting his effectiveness.
May God teach OTCA greater Humility and Tact in discussion.

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

The majority of Protestants living today have no idea what Martin Luther taught, and don’t even consider him relevant to their faith or to their lives. So, whether he taught the stuff that you quoted or not, doesn’t even matter, because Protestants don’t get their teachings from him, anyway.

As to what “Protestantism” teaches, it varies from denomination to denomination, and even from preacher to preacher - there is no set standard of “Protestant doctrines” - such a thing does not exist.

jm,
What you say is certainly correct. However, when one is looking at the basis of the proliferation of denominations, it is certainly relevant to look at the father or “prophet” or instigator of such a stupendous change.

Peace
James

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

The majority of Protestants living today have no idea what Martin Luther taught, and don’t even consider him relevant to their faith or to their lives. So, whether he taught the stuff that you quoted or not, doesn’t even matter, because Protestants don’t get their teachings from him, anyway.

As to what “Protestantism” teaches, it varies from denomination to denomination, and even from preacher to preacher - there is no set standard of “Protestant doctrines” - such a thing does not exist.

Well then I am glad we, as Catholics, have authority in the church meaning the pope ,and not confusion and chaos as without an authority. Protestants can say whatever they want about the papacy, and this is clearly a good thing that Jesus left us. Authority.
Thank you Lord.

 

[O.S.Luke]

Bottom line…it is what it is…

The bottom line is that you are dishonest in your apologetics. Pure and simple. You are giving the Catholic Church a bad name, OneFalseCathApos. If I were Catholic, I’d stick a sock in your mouth and plead with you to shut up - because you’re killing your cause.

 

[TotallyConfused]

I think that you are just, well…totallyconfused.

I rest my case on you buddy.

My first post here and I got a personal attack. yeah, real good for your credibility.
I’d love to see how you handle yourself in this thread and on this forum.

 

[jmcrae]

jm,
What you say is certainly correct. However, when one is looking at the basis of the proliferation of denominations, it is certainly relevant to look at the father or “prophet” or instigator of such a stupendous change.

Peace
James

Protestantism is not based on what he taught; it’s based on what he did. His schism from the Church is what all Protestants have in common with each other, and that is their inheritance from Martin Luther, as witnessed by the fact that not only do they enter into schism with the Church, but also with each other, until the number of Protestant denominations cannot even be accurately counted.

His doctrines are just a side issue - interesting to historians, but of no relevance to modern-day Protestants.

 

[adstrinity]

I find it amusing that the Protestants here dismiss some of the things Luther said and counter with other things he said and explain what was really meant… Where specifically is the personal Saviour quote?

 

[Steadfast]

Bizarro-world:

Fordham University, one of the premier Catholic universities in America can be dismissed for being “anti-catholic”.

People, don’t feed the troll.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Of all religions, I would say that Lutherans and Catholics are very similar. We use the same liturgy, and much of our services are the same.

Lutherans deny papal authority, pastors can marry, and they don’t believe in transubstantiation of the eucharist. Also they are more sola scripture than Catholics, (although I hear Luther very much venerated Mary).

I would rather hear about our commonalities than our differences. We both believe we are saved by our Lord, Jesus. We are both Christians. I sure we have a lot more in common with each other than many other groups.

 

[JonNC]

I find it amusing that the Protestants here dismiss some of the things Luther said and counter with other things he said and explain what was really meant… Where specifically is the personal Saviour quote?

To the best of my knowledge, it is either incorrectly attributed to Luther by someone or someplace that OTCA saw it, or it is a hoax. Luther and Lutherans generally doubt describe our faith in this way, probably one of the reasons we are accused by “evangelicals” as being “Catholic-lite”. Given the choice of listening to “Christian Radio” or EWTN, I’ll listen to EWTN, hands down, because the way “evangelicals” talk about faith is, in many ways, foreign to me as a Lutheran.

Jon

 

[elvisman]

To the best of my knowledge, it is either incorrectly attributed to Luther by someone or someplace that OTCA saw it, or it is a hoax. Luther and Lutherans generally doubt describe our faith in this way, probably one of the reasons we are accused by “evangelicals” as being “Catholic-lite”. Given the choice of listening to “Christian Radio” or EWTN, I’ll listen to EWTN, hands down, because the way “evangelicals” talk about faith is, in many ways, foreign to me as a Lutheran.

Jon

**I’ve Googled the quotes and got nothing. They were probably paraphrased and maybe not so accurately. I wouldn’t know since I’m not an expert on Luther. **
I did, however, get this:

**"Be a sinner and sin boldly, but believe and rejoice in Christ even more boldly… No sin will separate us from the Lamb, even though we commit fornication and murder a thousand times a day." (Martin Luther, Weimar ed.vol **
2, p. 371; Letters I, “Luther’s Works,” American ed. vol 48, p. 282)

Ummm - that’s completely contrary to scripture . . .

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Bizarro-world:

Fordham University, one of the premier Catholic universities in America can be dismissed for being “anti-catholic”.

People, don’t feed the troll.

That was a mistake and a typo on my part. Give it a break. Out of all the posts here, you non-Catholics seem to focus on this one mistake…pity.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

I’ve Googled the quotes and got nothing. They were probably paraphrased and maybe not so accurately. I wouldn’t know since I’m not an expert on Luther.
I did, however, get this:

"Be a sinner and sin boldly, but believe and rejoice in Christ even more boldly… No sin will separate us from the Lamb, even though we commit fornication and murder a thousand times a day." (Martin Luther, Weimar ed.vol
2, p. 371; Letters I, “Luther’s Works,” American ed. vol 48, p. 282)

Ummm - that’s completely contrary to scripture . . .

I already quoted where I got the information. I even included volumes and chapters.

 

[JonNC]

I’ve Googled the quotes and got nothing. They were probably paraphrased and maybe not so accurately. I wouldn’t know since I’m not an expert on Luther.
I did, however, get this:

"Be a sinner and sin boldly, but believe and rejoice in Christ even more boldly… No sin will separate us from the Lamb, even though we commit fornication and murder a thousand times a day." (Martin Luther, Weimar ed.vol
2, p. 371; Letters I, “Luther’s Works,” American ed. vol 48, p. 282)

Ummm - that’s completely contrary to scripture . . .

Thanks, elvisman. There was a long thread regarding this not long ago. This is a quote taken from a letter to Luther’s friend, Melancton. As is often the case with Luther, he uses hyperbole to describe what he believes, which here is that Luther believed that Christ’s sacrifice on the cross and resurrection is so powerful that it can even overcome horrible, terrible sins. Obviously, committing muder and fornication thousands of times a day isn’t possible, so he here is clearly exaggerating.
This is a personal letter to a friend, and BTW a friend who was a mild and gentle man who Luther would never have exected to do these things. It is not a statement regarding doctrine, so it fails to mention what Luther also believed: that we must repent our sin, and strive to live a sinless life thereafter. He maintained confession and absolution, and also believed that the unrepentant can lose their faith, driving out the Holy Spirit, and therefore not be saved.

Hope that helps,
Jon

 

[O.S.Luke]

**
"Be a sinner and sin boldly, but believe and rejoice in Christ even more boldly… No sin will separate us from the Lamb,** even though we commit fornication and murder a thousand times a day." (Martin Luther, Weimar ed.vol
2, p. 371; Letters I, “Luther’s Works,” American ed. vol 48, p. 282)

Ummm - that’s completely contrary to scripture . . .
Out of context. Did you read ALL of what he said?

Plus… the text is a really bad translation of the German, which really would read more like this:

“Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong, but let your trust in Christ be stronger, and rejoice in Christ who is the victor over sin, death, and the world.”

The context of the WHOLE letter this is taken from was that the sacrifice at the crucifixion was stronger than any sin or sins we could commit. It was not a license to go out and raise hell.

Taken out of context, you can get anything, including scripture, to say what you want it to say. That, my friends, is a chapter from the fundamental Protestant playbook. And it’s dishonest apologetics.

Do you REALLY want to sound like Fundy Protestants?

 

[JonNC]

I already quoted where I got the information. I even included volumes and chapters.

Not this one, you didn’t.

“If men believe in Christ and accept Him as their personal savior, His justice will be imputed to them and they will go straight to Heaven. It does not matter what evil they have done during their lives. It does not matter whether they are, or not, repentful of their sins. It does not matter at the moment of their death whether they have contrition or not, or if they are in a state of Grace. If they accepted Christ as their “personal” Savior, they will be saved.”

 

[O.S.Luke]

I posted while Jon posted. We said much of the same thing; my apologies.

 

[O.S.Luke]

Not this one, you didn’t.

This was my point earlier. It is not a writing of Luther.

 

[Rightlydivide]

I do not think you are allowed to use the term “fundy”.
And fundamentalist Christians beats a liberal Bible denying Christian any day of the week!!
Falwell trumps Spong!
Or so I think anyway.

 

[AeroChunky]

Out of all the posts here, you non-Catholics seem to focus on this one mistake…pity.

Nope, I’d say that they are focussing on all your many mistakes equally.

PS: Fix your signature, there one or two words missing…maybe it’s indicative of something…