Is this what the Mormon church teaches?

[PaulDupre]

zerinus:

The only people who lie about Mormonism are Mormon apostates and anti-Mormons.

Zerinus is a good example of a Mormon doctrine-denier. He insists that Mormonism teaches that God was always God, when the current LDS Sunday School manual says that God was a human who lived on another planet much like Earth and became God by obedience to his God.

The fact is that when the Book of Mormon was written, Joseph Smith had not yet developed his theology of multiple gods and eternal progression, polygamy, Jesus “married with children” and other weirdnesses. Zerinus and other deniers quote very early Mormon writings and pretend that the church has never taught anything else.

Go figure. If they are so ashamed of Mormon teachings, why do they continue to be Mormons?

 

[Janet_S]

The only people who lie about Mormonism are Mormon apostates and anti-Mormons.

zerinus

Why about the cartoon on youtube. Tell us why it is wrong and give some evidence to support your critique.

 

[zerinus]

Why about the cartoon on youtube. Tell us why it is wrong and give some evidence to support your critique.

This kind of garbage does not merit a response from me, nor from any other self-respecting Mormon. This kind of stuff may be up your street, but not mine.

zerinus

 

[why_me]

The video was made many years ago by the same people who are still today railing against the lds church. When a person makes a video, they can make something beautiful sound sinister. And it was no different for this video.

I can do the same to the catholic faith. Think about how it would be for an anticatholic to make a video on catholic doctrine. The whole concept of Nuns being brides of christ would create an interesting story in a cartoon. Right? Not to mention other doctrines such as purgatory etc.

What is amazing is that those who dislike mormonism will not pick up on the propaganda nature of the video and find it completely natural. They will overlook the sinister music, the use of words, and the intent.

The idea of a heavenly father and a heavenly mother is a good idea. And it does make sense. And I think that this should be a comfort to all women. To know that there is a heavenly mother is not so bad. And to know that god understands both men and women because of his own experiences is a good idea too.

If god is alone…why would he create women? If god never experienced women, why would he ‘burden’ men with women? Was god a batchelor?

 

[why_me]

I am also divorced. I have not been an active member of the lds church for many years. No one pressured my spouse to divorce me. In fact, just the opposite. To divorce me because I am inactive would be a no-no. But the lds church did not pressure my spouse.

And so, the video lied about the lds church pressuring divorce of the inactive man.

Also, one must be careful when referring to the lds church. What is a church? A group of people worshipping god. And within these people there are all sorts of personalities. Does this mean that some mormon pressured the wife to divorce this guy? Perhaps. But I think that there is more to the story than that.

And finally, all priests are different too. Some give good advice and some give bad advice. Such is human nature and the human condition.

 

[Janet_S]

This kind of garbage does not merit a response from me, nor from any other self-respecting Mormon. This kind of stuff may be up your street, but not mine.

zerinus

I know nearly nothing about the LDS church. I don’t consider myself particularly prejudiced against the LDS, actually I don’t think about it much at all. I was just asking what you object to. If this cartoon is so wrong, then point out why.

I’m a Catholic, and if you showed me a Jack Chick tract, I would be able to discuss the lies in it. Aren’t you able to do the same?

And if you can’t explain why it is wrong, why should we believe your claim that it’s all lies? Just because you say so?

 

[Janet_S]

The video was made many years ago by the same people who are still today railing against the lds church. When a person makes a video, they can make something beautiful sound sinister. And it was no different for this video.

I can do the same to the catholic faith. Think about how it would be for an anticatholic to make a video on catholic doctrine. The whole concept of Nuns being brides of christ would create an interesting story in a cartoon. Right? Not to mention other doctrines such as purgatory etc.

What is amazing is that those who dislike mormonism will not pick up on the propaganda nature of the video and find it completely natural. They will overlook the sinister music, the use of words, and the intent.

The idea of a heavenly father and a heavenly mother is a good idea. And it does make sense. And I think that this should be a comfort to all women. To know that there is a heavenly mother is not so bad. And to know that god understands both men and women because of his own experiences is a good idea too.

If god is alone…why would he create women? If god never experienced women, why would he ‘burden’ men with women? Was god a batchelor?

We don’t believe God is alone, we believe He is a relationship of persons–a Trinity. He is not married, and people are not married in heaven. Catholics wed “until death do us part.” That’s why widows and widowers are allowed to remarry in the Catholic Church. Jesus said “At the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage but are like the angels in heaven.” (Matthew 22:30) From the mouth of Jesus, we know angels aren’t married. Neither is God. If He is married, He certainly never revealed it to the Jews. Neither did Jesus reveal it to his Apostles.

You say “The idea of a heavenly father and a heavenly mother is a good idea.” Maybe it is, but that doesn’t make it true. Did God reveal to us that He has a “wife”? Did anyone before Joseph Smith ever believe this?

What about the belief that God used to be a person and that people can become Gods. Is this really a belief of the Mormons? Because if it is, it is radically different from Catholicism and Judaism. We can’t both be right.

We have abundant writings that show the beliefs of the first Christians have continuity with what the Catholic Church teaches today. Where is the evidence that anyone before Joseph Smith ever taught that God was only 1 god (among many), that He was (at one time) a person, and that people could become gods? Or, is this not really what the LDS teaches?

 

[why_me]

We don’t believe God is alone, we believe He is a relationship of persons–a Trinity. He is not married, and people are not married in heaven. Catholics wed “until death do us part.” That’s why widows and widowers are allowed to remarry in the Catholic Church. Jesus said “At the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage but are like the angels in heaven.” (Matthew 22:30) From the mouth of Jesus, we know angels aren’t married. Neither is God. If He is married, He certainly never revealed it to the Jews. Neither did Jesus reveal it to his Apostles.

You say “The idea of a heavenly father and a heavenly mother is a good idea.” Maybe it is, but that doesn’t make it true. Did God reveal to us that He has a “wife”? Did anyone before Joseph Smith ever believe this?

What about the belief that God used to be a person and that people can become Gods. Is this really a belief of the Mormons? Because if it is, it is radically different from Catholicism and Judaism. We can’t both be right.

We have abundant writings that show the beliefs of the first Christians have continuity with what the Catholic Church teaches today. Where is the evidence that anyone before Joseph Smith ever taught that God was only 1 god (among many), that He was (at one time) a person, and that people could become gods? Or, is this not really what the LDS teaches?

Psalm 82:1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
Psalm 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Jesus cited this scripture when he asked the Jews for which of his works they were going to stone him.
John 10:33-35 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. And Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If He called them Gods, to whom the word of god came (and the Scripture cannot be broken).

Some scriptures where ‘gods’ are mentioned. Taken from the King James.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Psalm 82:1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
Psalm 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Jesus cited this scripture when he asked the Jews for which of his works they were going to stone him.
John 10:33-35 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. And Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If He called them Gods, to whom the word of god came (and the Scripture cannot be broken).

Some scriptures where ‘gods’ are mentioned. Taken from the King James.

In Psalms, the reference of “gods” is to pagan gods. This is teaching that The One God rises above all pagan gods. It is a metaphorical teaching, like so much of the Bible.

Psalms is a Hebrew text. There is not one Jewish teaching or tradition that even remotely implies that One God is One of Many gods. This is a mormon belief and and a mormon belief alone, and a belief that did not come about until 1844AD. Many centuries after the Psalms were written.

The mormon view placed against this scripture paints mormonism as paganism.

John is clearly teaching the Trinity.

 

[Janet_S]

Psalm 82:1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
Psalm 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Jesus cited this scripture when he asked the Jews for which of his works they were going to stone him.
John 10:33-35 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. And Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If He called them Gods, to whom the word of god came (and the Scripture cannot be broken).

Some scriptures where ‘gods’ are mentioned. Taken from the King James.

You seem to be defending the belief that God isn’t the only god. Can I assume that this is what the LDS church teaches? Does it also teach that God used to be a person and that people will become gods?

To me, these beliefs (if they are held by the LDS) are the most disturbing part of the cartoon. If they are beliefs held by the LDS church, then all I can say is the LDS religion bears no resemblance to historical Christianity or to Judaism.

If the cartoon is wrong about these beliefs, please say so and why. You’ve never objected, so I’m assuming these beliefs are held by the LDS church.

 

[The_Confused_1]

This kind of garbage does not merit a response from me, nor from any other self-respecting Mormon. This kind of stuff may be up your street, but not mine.

zerinus

Why not. We seriously want to know? What of this video, if any of it, is not true mormon teaching?

 

[why_me]

In Psalms, the reference of “gods” is to pagan gods. This is teaching that The One God rises above all pagan gods. It is a metaphorical teaching, like so much of the Bible.

Psalms is a Hebrew text. There is not one Jewish teaching or tradition that even remotely implies that One God is One of Many gods. This is a mormon belief and and a mormon belief alone, and a belief that did not come about until 1844AD. Many centuries after the Psalms were written.

The mormon view placed against this scripture paints mormonism as paganism.

John is clearly teaching the Trinity.

Psalm 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

John 10: 33-35 And Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If He called them Gods, to whom the word of god came (and the Scripture cannot be broken).

It seems pretty clear what is meant in these verses. Nothing about pagan gods. In fact, Christ is quoting the scripture from psalms to imply that we humans can become gods. We are also children of the most high, ie, god.

 

[why_me]

Why not. We seriously want to know? What of this video, if any of it, is not true mormon teaching?

I gave you the divorce mistake. Also, the intent of the video and how the doctrine was portrayed was not accurate.

Let me put it this way: If I were to make a video of the catholic church and I had a cartoon that said:** Catholics believe that nuns can become the brides of christ. They sacrifice their life for christ, denying themselves marriage and children to be a bride of christ in the heavens where they will become polygamous wives of christ. **

Sound good??

 

[fellowChristian]

Bill McKeever wrote:

The gods of Psalm 82 are nothing more than men who, by God’s sovereign design, are chosen to rule over other men.

In fact, the word “Elohim,” used in verse six, is often translated “judges” in the Old Testament.

An example of this can be found in Exodus 21:6 where it reads, “Then his master shall bring him unto the judges [Elohim] …”

Another example is Exodus 22:8 which reads, “If the thief be not found, then the master of the house shall be brought unto the judges …” Again, the Hebrew Elohim is used.

No doubt many Latter-day Saints will look upon this interpretation with suspicion.

Should that be the case, one of Mormonism’s most respected scholars, Apostle James Talmage, should be quoted.

In his book “Jesus The Christ,” Talmage agreed that Jesus was referring to divinely appointed judges when he wrote, "Divinely Appointed Judges Called ‘gods.’

In Psalm 82:6, judges invested by divine appointment are called ‘gods.’ To this the Savior referred in His reply to the Jews in Solomon’s Porch. Judges so authorized officiated as the representatives of God and are honored by the exalted title ‘gods’" (pg. 501)

 

[Kristine1957]

This kind of garbage does not merit a response from me, nor from any other self-respecting Mormon. This kind of stuff may be up your street, but not mine.

zerinus

There you go again dodging the question. I don’t think the cartoon was in very good taste however, beyond that isn’t it accurate on your church’s teachings?

 

[Prince_Hal]

Let me add my 2 cents on the cartoon. I have been a Mormon for over 20 years. I am a High Priest, and a Bishop and have been a High Councillor.

The cartoon is accurate. I have seen writings from Mormon apostles and prophets to confirm everything that was said in the film. However, even I was somewhat shocked when seeing it all together as it was.

Much of what was said is not openly discussed and some will even claim that “a prophet is only a prophet when he is speaking as a prophet and at all other times he is a man open to misjudgement and must put on his pants one leg at a time like the rest of us”.

I believe that these things are not spoken of because they would frighten people away from Mormonism. Mormons would say that you need the “milk before the meat” and this is why they are not spoken of.

Mormonism tries to distance itself from these ideas, but nonethless, Elohim (God the Father) was once a man on another planet who gre to be a god, and yes, he did have sex with Mary to give us Jesus.

Many Mormons when they first join the LDS religion, have very little religious background or grounding in the scriptures. Hence they become easy prey to the Mormon missionaries. Then when they have made many friends in the LDS church they are less inclined to leave. It is a very socially and family oriented church. Many think for this reason that it is good and cannot be as false as it is. But make no mistake it is.

Lessons to be learned from this is to understand the Bible. Read it in context, not just single verses, but chapters in context. Get a good commentary, such as the Navarre Bible or the Ignatius Bible. Seek first to obtain and understand the truth, not to find things that support the “part line” (in this sense Catholicism). Be a seeker of truth and be prepared to question and research, and ask for the priest to explain. I am doing this now, and it all leads me back to one place - the Catholic church, to the Magisterium, to Mary, and ultimately the one place that they all point to and are but shadows of - Jesus Christ.

The cartoon may be laughable in places (God the Father in a diaper with a diaper pin), but there is evidence for all of it, and the key doctrines are all clearly taught - but not openly - well not all of the time. But do not under-estimate the LDS church and if you are not solidly grounded in the Catholic faith, then call in those who are. My brothers and sisters there is a spirit in the Mormon church that is not good. By spirit I mean an actual spirit that guides and directs it, who is known by some of the hierarchy of the church. Others are duped. Some are held captive by this spirit, and this spirit will fight to gain and retain and reclaim those who are his. Just read the writings of Paul and we are warned against accepting another doctrine.

God bless you and protect you and peace be with you.

Hal.

 

[fellowChristian]

wow Hal –
You had me confused. Mormon or Catholic? I had to read your profile.

Isn’t it called “love bombing” what you are describing? People are so lonely. It’s sad really if you think about it. Church shopping for the one that makes you “feel good.”

I know alot of people who talk like that. They ask me questions about the Catholic Church, because I talk about all the time, if we have potlucks or any Bible studies, things that have to do with “fellowship” not the history part of it.

 

[Teancum]

It is SOP for Mormons to deny these doctrines to outsiders. The Mormon tactic is to pretend to believe the same doctrines that Christians believe so you will listen to their missionaries and read the Book of Mormon, which does not contain any of these weird beliefs. Only later will they tell you their distinctly Mormon beliefs, like that God was not always God.

Paul

We are different from Catholics and Protestant Christians in our concept of God. We claim and teach that the Trinity-god-concept that controls the destinies of men is a false God and an absurd one at that. How can one truly love God if God is the one that decides who loves Him and who does not, since the very act of love requires a separation and an agency in the part of man? And if man is an agent unto himself, then he is free to choose liberty or captivity, through the power of Jesus Christ or the Devil, respectively.

We claim the supreme purpose for man is to keep God’s commandments and thereby receive all the blessings God may give. And what blessing is God unable to give? Can he make a man live eternally? If God has promised everything that He has, what will he withhold from those who keep His word?

This video is a misleading portrayal of LDS Doctrine. Usually people say that this is what they used to believe and I would say to them:

1. Is your memory accurate?
2. Was it official Church Doctrine or was it social doctrine, meaning your neighbors thought it was this way so they taught it in Sunday School?

There’s a lot of things that are represented as sure-found doctrine in the video that are theories, ideas, and conjecture by church officials, lay members, and plain LDS-haters. For instance, the idea that God had sex with Mary is such a bizarre concept to me, since Mary is plainly called a virgin in both the Bible and the prophecies concerning Christ’s birth in the Book of Mormon. Any other comments to the contrary should be dismissed as false theories, even if they were by important people. Joseph Smith said he was only a prophet when he was acting as such. He did a lot of thinking when he wasn’t receiving revelation, as did other men. So you can’t just dig up a quote and say it’s church doctrine because some church leader said it somewhere.

Since the video is so misleading and leaves a bad taste in the mouth of this believer, I’d say it doesn’t taste true to me so it’s not what I believe.

Oh, and if a missionary was evading a question about God then shame on them. You have to learn some basic concepts first about our beliefs to understand the rest eventually, so we don’t throw you into the deep end when you are beginning to swim. But we do not want to leave you not knowing something you want to know. It just might take some more time to help you understand.

 

[Teancum]

Let me add my 2 cents on the cartoon. I have been a Mormon for over 20 years. I am a High Priest, and a Bishop and have been a High Councillor.

The cartoon is accurate. I have seen writings from Mormon apostles and prophets to confirm everything that was said in the film. However, even I was somewhat shocked when seeing it all together as it was.

…

Mormonism tries to distance itself from these ideas, but nonethless, Elohim (God the Father) was once a man on another planet who gre to be a god, and yes, he did have sex with Mary to give us Jesus.

…

Hal.

Dear Mr. High Priest,

I suggest you read Alma 7:10 before you assume God had sex with Mary. She is described as a virgin and the conception was done by the power of the Holy Ghost in some way we don’t quite understand. Why would it be described in this way if God had sex with her? It would be much more consistent with scripture to say “And God went in unto Mary and knew her and she conceived and bare a son named Jesus Christ” if you wanted to say that sex took place.

The truth is, what we do know is that God was involved somehow through the power of the Holy Ghost and God was afterward known by Jesus as his father. Through God, Jesus Christ inherited great abilities (like the ability to be resurrected, his mental capabilities, etc.). Through Mary, Jesus Christ inherited the ability to feel pain, to age, etc. If God can form two people from the dust of the earth He certainly could cause Mary to conceive without human sex. I find no doctrinal problem in it.

Oh, and I’ve also been a member of the Church of Jesus Christ for more than 20 years. I am amused by your LDS resume, especially since you have clearly been a very poor High Priest, Bishop, and High Councilor indeed.

Take a look at this article concerning God having sex with Mary:

fairlds.org/FAIR_Brochures/Did_God_have_Sex_with_Mary.pdf

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

Teancum,

I like Mormons, one of my closest friends is a Mormon. There is a lot in their faith that I respect such as their stances on the family and their pro-life stance (well most of them anyways). Also, the ones I have met, seem to be sincere in there faith.

However I have to ask, why did you feel it necessary to resurrect this thread after over a year since its last post?

Maybe you could start a new thread, list some misconceptions about your faith and then answer them. I for one would like to read that as I am always looking to better understand certain faiths. Mormonism being one of them.

God bless