Is this wrong?

[anytimequilter]

You don’t seem to like the responses you are now receiving. My next suggestion is that you discuss this issue with a trusted priest, sharing with him the same details you have shared here. But perhaps you already know what the likely advice would be.

I have talked to my priest. He saw nothing wrong with going to the chapel during that time as long as I stayed focus on prayer. that is why when I did go I arrived 40 minutes before his time slot. Just because a priest gives a person some advice that doesn’t mean a person is able to automatically change what they feel inside - - if it were that easy there would be no need for confession

In the first post you described yourself as attracted to him. And asked about going out of your way to bump into him. The conclusions people drew flowed quite naturally.

I can’t control assumptions. I did try to redirect the discussion

Sorry if I upset you

 

[anytimequilter]

Thank you… this is the discussion that I wanted to have

In the situation which you are talking about, it seems like two people trying to do God’s will, which is a totally dofferent thing from when one or more participants are not doing God’s will.

I agree, I think that is why I get confused. Nothing is obviously “wrong”

God does allow us to make our own decisions, but we do have guidelines: does the proposed act involve mortal sin? Venial sin? and does it lead towards God or away from Him? And that last is why, in your shoes, given what you have expressed here, I would not go to the Adoration Chapel while the man is there.

I am not doubting you, I just needing some clarification. As these are the exact same questions that I use myself. I also consider what I was doing when the idea came to me… was I watching TV, was I drunk, was I praying…

Does proposed act involve a mortal sin - in this case No.

Does it involve venial sin - in this case No.

Does it lead towards God or away from God - I am going to the adoration chapel. That is where Jesus is… how is that “away from God”?

 

[anytimequilter]

I understand what you are saying (except for below), but I reiterate my advice that pursuing friendship with a married man on whom you have a crush is a bad idea. And I do believe it is morally bad, not just a matter of prudence. It is a near occasion of sin regardless of specific intents.

I appreciate your in put, and believe me these are all things that I have told myself… except that it is morally bad. Would I confess in confession that I went to the adoration chapel when a particular man was there as well? I don’t think the priest would agree that is a sin.

I don’t know about you, but when I am in the adoration chapel I don’t have discussions.

I suppose if were both married to other people and had a torrid love affair in the past - then I would agree that going to the chapel at the same as him would be wrong. You shold avoid a person like that at all cost

I grew up Catholic and was preached to heavily about “near occasion of sin”. As I got older I came to realize that almost anything can possibly be an occasion of sin. Agreed some are worse. But the devil is going to tempt you with what you have available… and he will find a way.

That being said, there are some obvious situations to avoid. Strip clubs, certain movies, ect… But as humans don’t we also have to learn to fight off temptations? We have “build that muscle” so it stays strong. You can’t cower away from life

 

[anytimequilter]

Really? I disagree. To me, this all depends precisely on whether this man is free to marry.

I would venture to say that most of the people I see in the chapel are married… not free to marry me. But that is not why I am going to the chapel. There is another gentlemen from work who I run into from time to time at the chapel… he is married but I don’t consider anything wrong with being in the chapel with him. Of course I don’t care to see him either

 

[anytimequilter]

But seek first the kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given you besides. Do not worry about tomorrow; tomorrow will take care of itself. Sufficient for a day is its own evil. Matt. 6:33-34

Better to take refuge in the LORD
than to put one’s trust in mortals. Ps. 118:8

Indeed, I wish everyone to be as I am, but each has a particular gift from God, one of one kind and one of another. Now to the unmarried and to widows, I say: it is a good thing for them to remain as they are, as I do, but if they cannot exercise self-control they should marry, for it is better to marry than to be on fire. 1 Cor. 7:7-9

As for adoration of the Most Blessed Sacrament:
I adore You, Lord and Creator, hidden in the Most Blessed Sacrament. I adore You for all the works of Your hands, that reveal to me so much wisdom, goodness and mercy, O Lord. You have spread so much beauty over the earth and it tells me about Your beauty, even though these beautiful things are but a faint reflection of You, incomprehensible Beauty. And although You have hidden Yourself and concealed your beauty, my eye, enlightened by faith, reaches You and my souls recognizes its Creator, its Highest Good, and my heart is completely immersed in prayer of adoration. --St. Faustina

“Holiness is a disposition of the heart that makes us humble and little in the arms of God, aware of our weakness, and confident – in the most audacious way – in His Fatherly goodness.” - St. Therese of the Child Jesus

“When the Sisters are exhausted, up to their eyes in work; when all seems to go awry, they spend an hour in prayer before the Blessed Sacrament. This practice has never failed to bear fruit: they experience peace and strength.” --Blessed Mother Teresa

Thank you I am going to read these and let them sink in to see what I take from them

 

[St_Francis]

Thank you… this is the discussion that I wanted to have

I agree, I think that is why I get confused. Nothing is obviously “wrong”

Right, and that can be very tricky! Nothing is obviously wrong, but… you came here and asked, despite what your priest said. You are talking the way I talk when I want to do something “unwise.”

You mention below that you understood the idea of an ocassion of sin, and that almost anything could be an ocassion of sin. That’s true in the aggregate. But, it is what is an O of S for *us *that counts on the individual level. OoS are different for different people. For me as a woman, going to a strip club would not be one; for Joe, it might be. Mabel has a problem with gambling–going to the races might be one for her where it wouldn’t be for you.

And our OoS can vary by time as well.

I am not doubting you, I just needing some clarification. As these are the exact same questions that I use myself. I also consider what I was doing when the idea came to me… was I watching TV, was I drunk, was I praying…

Does proposed act involve a mortal sin - in this case No.

Does it involve venial sin - in this case No.

Does it lead towards God or away from God - I am going to the adoration chapel. That is where Jesus is… how is that “away from God”?

You were already going to the Adoration chapel to visit with Christ. Now you are proposing to go to visit Him and to see if maybe something will develop with this man. Of course you would not talk with him during adoration, but where would your thoughts be?

And it might not happen right away. You may go for several weeks and slide so gradually into not-yet-sinful but distracted thoughts that you will barely notice.

You in a different response if we are not supposed to practce our virtues? *Only some. *We practice patience, we practice humility. It is *discouraged *to “practice” others.

What virtue would you be practicing by changing your time to go to the Adoration Chapel? When you go at his time, how do you feel?

You are telling us and yourself that you just want to be friends. If you meet a woman and think it would be noce to be friends, do you slide around the edges of her life hoping she’ll notice you? Or do you ask her to join you in a cup of coffee?

Why are you avoiding getting a definitive take on this potential friendship instead of being open and risking his being unable to be friends with you? You seem to be hanging on to the potential rather than deal with what is real.

 

[anytimequilter]

Thank you for your response… I am going to percolate on this a bit, but I do have a question

You in a different response if we are not supposed to practce our virtues? Only some. We practice patience, we practice humility. It is discouraged to “practice” others.

I don’t understand this. Or maybe what I think are the virtues are not correct. I think they are: Chastity, Temperance, Charity, Dilligence, Patience, Kindness and Humility

Why would we be discouraged to practice Charity, Kindness, Dilligence, Chastity and Temperance?

 

[St_Francis]

Thank you for your response… I am going to percolate on this a bit, but I do have a question

I don’t understand this. Or maybe what I think are the virtues are not correct. I think they are: Chastity, Temperance, Charity, Dilligence, Patience, Kindness and Humility

Why would we be discouraged to practice Charity, Kindness, Dilligence, Chastity and Temperance?

I’m so sorry, I was in a hurry and so was not clear

So, some virtues we practice by putting ourselves into that situation. So, patience we might choose the longer line at the bank, and then also by the situations which arise, like that long-winded co-worker.

However, there are some we do not do that with, and the primary example of that is lust. We do not test our chastity by viewing porn. And of course, addictions are like that. So again, it’s different things for different people: Joe the alcoholic does not “test” his temperance by going to a bar; Mabel the gambler of her rent money does not go to the races.

 

[anytimequilter]

So, some virtues we practice by putting ourselves into that situation. So, patience we might choose the longer line at the bank, and then also by the situations which arise, like that long-winded co-worker.

However, there are some we do not do that with, and the primary example of that is lust. We do not test our chastity by viewing porn. And of course, addictions are like that. So again, it’s different things for different people: Joe the alcoholic does not “test” his temperance by going to a bar; Mabel the gambler of her rent money does not go to the races.

This I understand. Goes exactly with my example on the other post

I suppose if were both married to other people and had a torrid love affair in the past - then I would agree that going to the chapel at the same as him would be wrong. You shold avoid a person like that at all cost

Now I will percolate and see how this processes with me. I bet I have more thoughts

Thanks

 

[anytimequilter]

Still there?

You mention below that you understood the idea of an ocassion of sin, and that almost anything could be an ocassion of sin.

Ok when I said this I was thinking a little more “relationship” wise because the discussion kept going that way. I have often wondered about dating…that in itself could be considered an occasion of sin … because so many people are wired that a date = sex. So it can be an adventure in frustration dating

Why are you avoiding getting a definitive take on this potential friendship instead of being open and risking his being unable to be friends with you? You seem to be hanging on to the potential rather than deal with what is real.

I wouldn’t characterize it like this. When my group at work moved to that office area, I didn’t know anything about him, just was a nice guy that didn’t have a wedding ring. So I did just what you have suggested. I asked him to lunch but that was sort of a premature question. His reply was that his divorce wasn’t final. I didn’t know the timing of his “situation”. Then awhile later I did ask him to a college game, but he said that he was going out of town the next day and he needed to pack and everything. So he really didn’t have time. Not sure how to take that, but I need to take people at their word. So my sis and my niece went to the game with me. Those times were both before I even saw him at the chapel. Quite honestly, the chapel just makes him more attractive to me. Since I have seen him at the chapel I was concerned that he wondered why I was asking him out - even if I am divorced aren’t I “still married in the eyes of the church”. Like everyone here on the board is quick to point out. I wanted to be sure that he did know I had an annulment. So I did send him an email. He did reply and he was nice. I don’t remember all that was said but I don’t know how to build on these type of things like other people do.

You are telling us and yourself that you just want to be friends. If you meet a woman and think it would be noce to be friends, do you slide around the edges of her life hoping she’ll notice you? Or do you ask her to join you in a cup of coffee?

I don’t drink coffee This is also part of my problem as well. I am a single parent and my kids have taken up so much of my time for so long I didn’t have any time for socializing of any type. I am sort of out of practice… and I think I am just now getting to the point that I have time to socialize. I am not free yet, still have another year or so to get my youngest out of high school. But I am not needed to drive every where any more so I can have so “me” time.

 

[anytimequilter]

You were already going to the Adoration chapel to visit with Christ. Now you are proposing to go to visit Him and to see if maybe something will develop with this man. Of course you would not talk with him during adoration, but where would your thoughts be?

Well to be clear there is no way I could go every time he is signed up. 1 - I have a lazy streak and that would take some real effort. Going from work is so convenient and easy. 2 - I would never go every time because I understand that everyone needs their space. I really like it when I am in the chapel by myself so I understand why someone else would like it as well.

When I did go I went 40 minutes before his allotted time. That gave me time to have my mind in prayer. I realize that when he comes my attention is shot, so I left 10 minutes or so after he came in.

What virtue would you be practicing by changing your time to go to the Adoration Chapel?

what virtue? never thought of that. But now that I am… here are some of my thoughts

Prudence is the ability to tell what is good or bad in a situation. It is prudent to show interest in a good man at the adoration chapel instead of spending time with a man who would not be interested in the right things. I do know that is a big force in the attraction. And going to the adoration chapel is a good thing to do - no matter what time I go

I don’t know that Justice fits into this scenario. My kids no longer need me so if I leave the house in the evening to go to the chapel I am not abandoning them.

Fortitude is a virtue that I know I lack in… if I had more courage I may not even be talking about this subject.

Temperance I am not sure fits in this scenario either… I do have a weakness for chocolate but I do have a reasonable control on my will. However the control I have over myself could be what is causing my hesitation about going to the chapel at a different time?? I feel the pull, but I hold myself back hence the turmoil that I feel

Chastity, Charity, Dilligence, Patience, Kindness and Humility… hmm I certainly don’t go to the chapel to leer. Its the opposite that attracts me to him. Still thinking…

When you go at his time, how do you feel?

There is a relief that my inner turmoil on whether to go or not is settled. Not sure how to express this I want someone to share my faith with and that is a glimpse of what that would be like. As my kids grow I realize our time of going to mass together will not last forever… will be over before I know it. They will be on their own. I would like to have someone to share that with. They may still come around from time to time, but it won’t be the same

man did I rope you into a discussion or what

 

[underacloud]

I would venture to say that most of the people I see in the chapel are married… not free to marry me. But that is not why I am going to the chapel. There is another gentlemen from work who I run into from time to time at the chapel… he is married but I don’t consider anything wrong with being in the chapel with him. Of course I don’t care to see him either

To be clear, my concerns have nothing to do with Adoration or being in the chapel. If he were free to marry, I’d actually think it’s a good place to try to bump into him. I met my wife at a church event.

Moreover, if you were only interested in friendship, there would be no concern anyway. Bumping into a friend at church is hardly a concern of any sort. We need to be wary of undue distractions, but not to the point of complete social isolation.

When my group at work moved to that office area, I didn’t know anything about him, just was a nice guy that didn’t have a wedding ring. So I did just what you have suggested. I asked him to lunch but that was sort of a premature question. His reply was that his divorce wasn’t final. I didn’t know the timing of his “situation”. Then awhile later I did ask him to a college game, but he said that he was going out of town the next day and he needed to pack and everything. So he really didn’t have time. Not sure how to take that, but I need to take people at their word. So my sis and my niece went to the game with me. Those times were both before I even saw him at the chapel. Quite honestly, the chapel just makes him more attractive to me. Since I have seen him at the chapel I was concerned that he wondered why I was asking him out - even if I am divorced aren’t I “still married in the eyes of the church”. Like everyone here on the board is quick to point out. I wanted to be sure that he did know I had an annulment. So I did send him an email. He did reply and he was nice. I don’t remember all that was said but I don’t know how to build on these type of things like other people do.

With this additional detail it seems to me that you’ve already pursued him and he has politely declined your advances. Now maybe that was because he wasn’t ready or available at that time to date, and maybe that has changed, but he knows you have an annulment and he knows you are interested in him. Leave it there.

And based on this, please don’t seek him out at Adoration. It will likely be quite awkward for him and a considerable distraction. If you feel you must pursue him one more time, just ask him out for a coffee (or whatever beverage you prefer to drink). If he declines, that’s your third strike. If he accepts, go from there (and of course, find out if he’s free to marry and thus date).

 

[anytimequilter]

With this additional detail it seems to me that you’ve already pursued him and he has politely declined your advances. Now maybe that was because he wasn’t ready or available at that time to date, and maybe that has changed, but he knows you have an annulment and he knows you are interested in him. Leave it there.

And based on this, please don’t seek him out at Adoration. It will likely be quite awkward for him and a considerable distraction. If you feel you must pursue him one more time, just ask him out for a coffee (or whatever beverage you prefer to drink). If he declines, that’s your third strike. If he accepts, go from there (and of course, find out if he’s free to marry and thus date).

I can’t imagine I would be asking him again any way. You know I have feelings that do get hurt. And I don’t need to put myself through rejection again. Just like “that’s your third strike” sort of hit a nerve… like the death toll.

Its not helpful. If you were single and struggling with loneliness you might find some charity in your heart to understand someone else’s situation. Its not a choice you know - I would change it if it were within my power. I am not on line talking to strangers because it is my favorite thing to do

 

[underacloud]

I can’t imagine I would be asking him again any way. You know I have feelings that do get hurt. And I don’t need to put myself through rejection again. Just like “that’s your third strike” sort of hit a nerve… like the death toll.

Its not helpful. If you were single and struggling with loneliness you might find some charity in your heart to understand someone else’s situation. Its not a choice you know - I would change it if it were within my power. I am not on line talking to strangers because it is my favorite thing to do

You’re online talking to strangers because you have doubts and concerns about this situation and want opinions. And I’m happy to offer my opinion.

I have been single and struggled with loneliness in the past; I know (or at least remember) how it feels. But I do believe my posts are as charitable as any in this thread, even if they are not what you want to hear, and perhaps not in a style that you prefer (file it under “tough love” if you like). It would not be charitable IMO to encourage you to go ahead and pursue a man who is likely still married and doesn’t seem interested in you anyway. It would be more charitable - even though it hits a nerve - to encourage you to see this situation for what it is and to divert your energies elsewhere.

 

[anytimequilter]

I am wrong you are right. FYI…that doesn’t change a thing… so problem won’t be solved by assigning/accepting blame. One thing I know is true: Opinions are not facts.

I am still feeling and thinking the same. Someone telling me that I am “creepy” or “self centered” or that my trips to the chapel are a “folly” didn’t change anything.

“Tough love” is not helpful. I grew up with “tough love” that is why I am on the internet now instead of talking to my mom and sisters.

Saying “doesn’t seem interested in you anyway” is not helpful. What is helpful is information to help me change my thought pattern. Especially given the fact that you don’t know me or the person you are saying isn’t interested. You can’t tell someone “see” and expect instant understanding

 

[underacloud]

I hope you can appreciate the contradiction on what you are saying:

I would appreciate (name removed by moderator)ut

One thing I know is true: Opinions are not facts.

Saying “doesn’t seem interested in you anyway” is not helpful. What is helpful is information to help me change my thought pattern. Especially given the fact that you don’t know me or the person you are saying isn’t interested. You can’t tell someone “see” and expect instant understanding

On this basis, none of us can possibly help you. We don’t know you or this man, beyond what you have shared with us. And then you don’t like the responses you get and dismiss them because we don’t know you. I’m not trying to upset you. I’m trying to offer the (name removed by moderator)ut you asked for based on the circumstances as you have explained, as are others who have been kind enough to post in this thread to now.

You’re not the first person to post a question on this forum and then bristle at the answers. And you seem to argue with every type of response you’ve received here, and your own priest has already said this is OK and you don’t trust that advice either.

Anyway, do you know what would resolve this issue for you? Talk to this man. Find out if he wants to be friends. Find out if he wants to be more than friends and is free to do so.

 

[St_Francis]

Well to be clear there is no way I could go every time he is signed up. 1 - I have a lazy streak and that would take some real effort. Going from work is so convenient and easy. 2 - I would never go every time because I understand that everyone needs their space. I really like it when I am in the chapel by myself so I understand why someone else would like it as well.

When I did go I went 40 minutes before his allotted time. That gave me time to have my mind in prayer. I realize that when he comes my attention is shot, so I left 10 minutes or so after he came in.

I guess when I was single I would not have been able to focus on God at all (well, hard to say really as I was an uncatechized Catholic at the time!)

what virtue? never thought of that. But now that I am… here are some of my thoughts

Well, the reason I brought it up was that you suggested you were practicing a virtue when you wrote, “…But as humans don’t we also have to learn to fight off temptations? We have “build that muscle” so it stays strong. You can’t cower away from life.” (post 43 on p 3) This comment is why I asked which virtue you are practicing.

Prudence is the ability to tell what is good or bad in a situation. It is prudent to show interest in a good man at the adoration chapel instead of spending time with a man who would not be interested in the right things. I do know that is a big force in the attraction. And going to the adoration chapel is a good thing to do - no matter what time I go

I don’t know that Justice fits into this scenario. My kids no longer need me so if I leave the house in the evening to go to the chapel I am not abandoning them.

Fortitude is a virtue that I know I lack in… if I had more courage I may not even be talking about this subject.

Temperance I am not sure fits in this scenario either… I do have a weakness for chocolate but I do have a reasonable control on my will. However the control I have over myself could be what is causing my hesitation about going to the chapel at a different time?? I feel the pull, but I hold myself back hence the turmoil that I feel

Chastity, Charity, Dilligence, Patience, Kindness and Humility… hmm I certainly don’t go to the chapel to leer. Its the opposite that attracts me to him. Still thinking…

There is a relief that my inner turmoil on whether to go or not is settled. Not sure how to express this I want someone to share my faith with and that is a glimpse of what that would be like. As my kids grow I realize our time of going to mass together will not last forever… will be over before I know it. They will be on their own. I would like to have someone to share that with. They may still come around from time to time, but it won’t be the same

This is a tough time of life. My youngest too will be off in 3 years or so, so I know there’s a big adjustment. I sat alone at Mass for the first time in 20 years just a few weeks ago

man did I rope you into a discussion or what

Meandering conversations are often the most interesting Who knew all the topics that would come up!

 

[anytimequilter]

I am done. I am not sorry that I asked the question, because if you don’t ask questions you will never learn.

 

[phil_at_dayboro]

I am done. I am not sorry that I asked the question, because if you don’t ask questions you will never learn.

You should not apologise for being you, for being inquisitive ,
don’t ever ever stop asking questions