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Xanthippe_Voorhees
Guest
I’m pretty sure that God would not want me to be homeless or have my children or I starve to death.
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I’m pretty sure that God would not want me to be homeless or have my children or I starve to death.
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ChunkMonk
Guest
Do you literally only spend money on food, shelter, clothing, and medicine and after those expenses you have NO money at all left over?
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Xanthippe_Voorhees
Guest
More or less…yeah…that’s where we’re at financially. If you calculate what we must do to keep our home decent. (And put in reserve because we are responsible for repairs) If you add in vehicles that we need to get to the work and store. What we must save to pay our medical bills now that Obama care has steamrolled our healthcare. What we owe in “just” taxes to the government. There’s not much left over. We run a tight ship.
And a majority of people are living paycheck to paycheck–especially those with young children.
I mean we could make different choices. My husband could move up in his workplace and see our children less. I could take a full-time job and put the children in daycare. We could tithe then.
But it would be a horrible way to live. And it would not do good by our children.
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Kei
Guest
No, it’s just low middleclass. We did with less for a family of three for a while. We didn’t like it, but it was doable so long as you know how long you can get away with not paying each bill (this differs depending on what the bill is paying. For instance, you should have at least 3 months before a house forecloses, and there are various processes that can extend the time to much more. Meanwhile, if you go without paying a car note for 2 months, then they threaten to take it. Of course, a lot of phone calls saying this or that but it doesn’t usually happen as soon as they say it will).
But the fact that so much money makes one considered, in your eyes, “borderline poor” just demonstrates how blessed we are to live in present day America.
Of course if one had to be in a permanent situation where they don’t make enough money for food (this has only happened like once or twice to us for a couple weeks after we moved), then you should probably look into getting a garden started and know how to hunt/fish. This can relieve a large burden of paying for food. Sadly the poor don’t have farms anymore, but such would obviously be ideal.
But the fact that so much money makes one considered, in your eyes, “borderline poor” just demonstrates how blessed we are to live in present day America.
Of course if one had to be in a permanent situation where they don’t make enough money for food (this has only happened like once or twice to us for a couple weeks after we moved), then you should probably look into getting a garden started and know how to hunt/fish. This can relieve a large burden of paying for food. Sadly the poor don’t have farms anymore, but such would obviously be ideal.
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Xanthippe_Voorhees
Guest
I’m not trying to be offensive but I see this kind of debt avoidance as immoral. God made it very clear that we were to pay those we owed and not “stiff” them. Even though it seems harmless…I see paying money owed to the electric or bank as no different than if I owed my mother or my priest. I would not do that to them. So I do not do that to a “corporation”.
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Kei
Guest
It’s not avoidance if you can’t afford to pay it…it’s also not avoidance for the most part but figuring out when you could pay x bill and wait for that time to pay it.
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Kei
Guest
Of course. I was speaking of giving when you make more than enough to pay bills, like the OP said wherein they were making six figures, unless it’s to help those even more unfortunate than you.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
On this, we agree.
I’m pretty sure my brother-in-law makes wages in that neighborhood. His wife has mostly been a SAHM and they have two kids, one in college now getting significant aid (including huge loans) and working part time to help pay costs. He and his wife are generally very responsible, and they’ve never gone hungry or been kicked out of an apartment, but they live in an economically depressed area, will probably never own a home, one of the kids could use cosmetic dental work but never got it, i doubt there’s any retirement savings, and we had to bail them out of a bad debt once. I wouldn’t be surprised if both sets of parents helped out some when they were alive as well. If you are in that bracket and do not have people to help you in a jam, then one bad illness or disaster can set you back but good.
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JetteZ
Guest
Does Catholic school tuition count? 
That one expense item is 5% of our gross income (before taxes, health insurance, HSA, FSA, and 401k contributions take another big chunk). Can’t wait until the other one can attend. 
That one expense item is 5% of our gross income (before taxes, health insurance, HSA, FSA, and 401k contributions take another big chunk). Can’t wait until the other one can attend. Tis_Bearself
Patron
You’re to be commended for paying the tuition for your kids and not saying it’s too much and sending them to public school like some people I know.
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Kei
Guest
The good news is that the one kid is going to college. Hope the kid tries hard and makes enough money to support the parents.
But yeah, it’s not really poor but lower middle class. Good on them for raising two kids on that!
But yeah, it’s not really poor but lower middle class. Good on them for raising two kids on that!
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Seeksadvice
Guest
It’s amazing that people are quick to judge when they think that somebody has more and should do more, while at the same time thinking that it’s terrible to expect others with lesser incomes to step up to the plate and improve themselves. You’d be surprised at how fast such things as dry cleaning, replacement of professional attire as it wears out, etc. start adding up. Also, eating out more frequently than want to due to crazy schedule.
FWIW, my YTD from all sources this year is >$250,000.00, with about 2/3rd’s reinvested for the future. I don’t “live rich,” as someone talked about the exorbitant lifestyle they could live on $100,000.00. I am not sure what $25,000.00 now would do that ~$200,000.00 wouldn’t do after I’m well and dead and do not have any potential uses for the funds.
When I helped clean the church and other various parts of the building a few weekends ago, I found it interesting that the people there were folks at the higher end of the income bracket; I understand having to work on the weekends at times, but didn’t see any of the folks who come in and take from the food donation boxes or who shuffle in simply to find that bathroom after hours.
FWIW, my YTD from all sources this year is >$250,000.00, with about 2/3rd’s reinvested for the future. I don’t “live rich,” as someone talked about the exorbitant lifestyle they could live on $100,000.00. I am not sure what $25,000.00 now would do that ~$200,000.00 wouldn’t do after I’m well and dead and do not have any potential uses for the funds.
When I helped clean the church and other various parts of the building a few weekends ago, I found it interesting that the people there were folks at the higher end of the income bracket; I understand having to work on the weekends at times, but didn’t see any of the folks who come in and take from the food donation boxes or who shuffle in simply to find that bathroom after hours.
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Kei
Guest
I simply used the exact math of the OP who said the hypothetical person had $30,000 left after paying for necessary things.
I at no point attempt to make a judgement.
I also think that those with anything should help those in more need, but that it is not required if it is used in necessities.
The answer to that is what is needed now. It doesn’t have to go to the church but to any charitable/good causes.
It’s also a sort of “trust” in God, so to speak. You say you save about 2/3 of the 250 thousand you make, which to me sounds like a lot more than 200,000 dollars by the end of your life. We also don’t know when the end shall come, and it may be prior to your death. Good on you for spending your time. Personally I believe time is much more valuable than money. Rarely do you hear on a desthbed, “if only I had more money”, much more frequently it is, “if only I had more time!”
But when I hear that much money, that sounds like a lot. I have a friend who I try to help, he’s a tad crazy. But he needs just > $150 a month to survive. He essentially lives in a shed. Now, I don’t mean to make you feel obligated to help him, but I won’t have the funds until next month to help him specifically, so if you or anyone you know would be fine giving anything his way, please go to the fundraising site YouCaring and search his name, Richard Crandall, and he should be the first to come up, about space exploration. It’s actually his living funds, and the total is accrued over months. He has a lot of issues that prohibit him from working, and when he tried to go out to see if there was any job he could do, he passed out from heat stroke. Hes written multiple books, but they didn’t sell well. He was banking on this application (he has to do jobs that are not physical due to physical issues) being accepted this month, but they’re not responding. I worry very much about him. Even if you cannot pay for him, please do keep him in your prayers. He’s also a protestant (well, he has some rather odd ball beliefs), so also pray for his conversion.
I at no point attempt to make a judgement.
I also think that those with anything should help those in more need, but that it is not required if it is used in necessities.
The answer to that is what is needed now. It doesn’t have to go to the church but to any charitable/good causes.
It’s also a sort of “trust” in God, so to speak. You say you save about 2/3 of the 250 thousand you make, which to me sounds like a lot more than 200,000 dollars by the end of your life. We also don’t know when the end shall come, and it may be prior to your death. Good on you for spending your time. Personally I believe time is much more valuable than money. Rarely do you hear on a desthbed, “if only I had more money”, much more frequently it is, “if only I had more time!”
But when I hear that much money, that sounds like a lot. I have a friend who I try to help, he’s a tad crazy. But he needs just > $150 a month to survive. He essentially lives in a shed. Now, I don’t mean to make you feel obligated to help him, but I won’t have the funds until next month to help him specifically, so if you or anyone you know would be fine giving anything his way, please go to the fundraising site YouCaring and search his name, Richard Crandall, and he should be the first to come up, about space exploration. It’s actually his living funds, and the total is accrued over months. He has a lot of issues that prohibit him from working, and when he tried to go out to see if there was any job he could do, he passed out from heat stroke. Hes written multiple books, but they didn’t sell well. He was banking on this application (he has to do jobs that are not physical due to physical issues) being accepted this month, but they’re not responding. I worry very much about him. Even if you cannot pay for him, please do keep him in your prayers. He’s also a protestant (well, he has some rather odd ball beliefs), so also pray for his conversion.
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JetteZ
Guest
Because it takes people with disposable income and time to have the resources to do those kinds of activities. The majority of people on public assistance are children or parents of children. Those folks are both time and money poor.
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JetteZ
Guest
To be fair, it is too much. At nearly $6,000 for tuition and then the expenses of uniforms, field trips, lunches, fundraisers, and a volunteer commitment we end up sacrificing time with our children in order to afford a Catholic education.
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JetteZ
Guest
Someone setting fires is clearly not a person who should be volunteering anywhere.
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Seeksadvice
Guest
My point was this: people who aren’t time starved yet feel free to take are unwilling to give back.
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JetteZ
Guest
My point is that, for the most part, I don’t believe that to be true.
Even if you are right and most people are a bunch of greedy moochers, so what? What good does it do for you? What glory does that attitude bring to God?
For me, I am a whole lot happier assuming that people are going about doing the best they can. Assuming good intent allows me to resist the temptation to judge others which would only serve to harden my heart towards others and cause me to resist charity.
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DarkLight
Guest
Variable expenses and cost of living make it hard to make absolute statements about income… Around here, I considered myself lucky to find an apartment for $600 a month - and the housing I found would be entirely unsuitable for more than one person. And personally I’m spending lots of money on medical bills. As a single person with no kids, that’s manageable. If I had a kid, I’d need a bigger apartment, childcare, more food…
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