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yellow8yellowM
Guest
I think you are wrong about the strip clubs. The quote below sums it up.
“Once you’ve seen one pair…you’ve gotta see’em all.”
-Ron White, comedian.
- Status
“Once you’ve seen one pair…you’ve gotta see’em all.”
-Ron White, comedian.
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Robert_Sock
Guest
This is simply a case of the novelty effect.
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M1Garand
Guest
Apparently to the puritanical sect of all stripes a women’s body is sinful. This is evident in the hysteria generated in some locations when a woman tries to feed her child in public. I find perversion not in the nudity but in the reaction of said puritanical types to it. It is a reaction that springs from victorian England and is an absurdity and not the norm either in history or through out all of Europe. If you doubt this look at the paintings all over the inside of the Sistine Chapel.
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Loving_disciple
Guest
Men like breast that is a fact. Yes it is a sin
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Evania
Guest
They do huh? Then why do they pay so much to see them?
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Ophelia23
Guest
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Evania
Guest
Just like the men who subscribe to Playboy do so for the stimulating…articles and interviews.For the good food and drink served there, surely.
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Ophelia23
Guest
Just like the men who subscribe to Playboy do so for the stimulating…articles and interviews.
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TK421
Guest
To address something that has been brought up, here’s some news: American Puritanism is a fabricated myth among white western Europeans. The only aspect of the culture that is somewhat puritanical is that in the 20th century a trend caught on where breastfeeding became avoided in public, which is not typical most elsewhere. The fact is, when it comes to overall international standards of public decency, the US falls on the liberal end of the spectrum. The perceptions on exposed breasts are not a matter of Europe versus USA. It’s more like a deteriorating demographic of white western Europeans versus Earth. Not that there aren’t people that ever go exposed at beaches or during events elsewhere, but it’s not something that is conditioned into a state of normalcy.
And the notion that exposed breasts in public has a long history in Europe is quite an exaggeration. Yeah, you had nude artwork and noblewoman would sometimes have their beasts in paintings, and there were even some dresses that were designed that way (guess that’s nothing new in the world of fashion) but the nudist movement didn’t really rapidly pick up steam until post-WW2. The two most probable explanations for this is that either Europe has achieved a pre-Fall state of remarkable holiness, and public nudity is not a cause of scandal, or it’s something that has accompanied an overall trend where fidelity has been butchered in the name of false enlightenment. I’m going with #2.
So while you may not be able to make a concrete case that an exposed boob must be sinful, I can’t see a person being able to successfully sell the idea to a properly formed individual that the culture would be better off if it allegedly lightened up (i.e. made itself into more of a harlot than what it already is) by becoming permissive of casual nudity. Female breasts are not some kind of social construct where men will cease to find them attractive in different conditions. When I was a 5-year-old boy, I liked my kindergarten teacher’s breasts. Nobody had to teach me to like them. There was no mystical oppressive patriarchal culture that subtly formed my perceptions to sexualize a woman’s chest. I liked my kindergarten teacher’s breasts because I am a guy, and guys like boobs. They like them a lot, as a matter of fact. This is (or ought to be) a common sense observation, although as C.S. Lewis once said “Some ideas are so outrageous that only an expert could come up with them”.
There is a highly compelling case you can make that you can actually make female breasts somewhat less stimulating if you normalize them (although at a base evolutionary level, it can be safely assumed that a female beast will always have a heightened allure to it), but this only further damns the argument that public exposure is a good thing. Sexual appetite is not something that can be satisfied by giving in to it. The only way you can become sexually satisfied is by - through discipline- acquiring contentment. That means either having sex at regular intervals with a spouse, or simply not having sex. When you try to feed your appetite through porn, masturbation, strip clubs, fornication, open “marriage”, or whatever other deviation you can come up, you are only further inflaming your desire and gradually making yourself ever more demanding. The sex drive is not static. It is based on supply and demand. A European male might become conditioned into being less excited by an exposed breasts versus a Muslim, but this simply means his appetite must expand itself to newer limits, and I think you can see a ton of evidence for this in European and Japanese culture (and American culture). The more sexualized a society becomes, the more pathetically desperate and creative they become in trying to please an insatiable appetite that simply grows and mutates. Germany is probably the most nudist-friendly country on the planet. Violent dungeon sex is also very popular there. I suspect there is a connection.
And the notion that exposed breasts in public has a long history in Europe is quite an exaggeration. Yeah, you had nude artwork and noblewoman would sometimes have their beasts in paintings, and there were even some dresses that were designed that way (guess that’s nothing new in the world of fashion) but the nudist movement didn’t really rapidly pick up steam until post-WW2. The two most probable explanations for this is that either Europe has achieved a pre-Fall state of remarkable holiness, and public nudity is not a cause of scandal, or it’s something that has accompanied an overall trend where fidelity has been butchered in the name of false enlightenment. I’m going with #2.
So while you may not be able to make a concrete case that an exposed boob must be sinful, I can’t see a person being able to successfully sell the idea to a properly formed individual that the culture would be better off if it allegedly lightened up (i.e. made itself into more of a harlot than what it already is) by becoming permissive of casual nudity. Female breasts are not some kind of social construct where men will cease to find them attractive in different conditions. When I was a 5-year-old boy, I liked my kindergarten teacher’s breasts. Nobody had to teach me to like them. There was no mystical oppressive patriarchal culture that subtly formed my perceptions to sexualize a woman’s chest. I liked my kindergarten teacher’s breasts because I am a guy, and guys like boobs. They like them a lot, as a matter of fact. This is (or ought to be) a common sense observation, although as C.S. Lewis once said “Some ideas are so outrageous that only an expert could come up with them”.
There is a highly compelling case you can make that you can actually make female breasts somewhat less stimulating if you normalize them (although at a base evolutionary level, it can be safely assumed that a female beast will always have a heightened allure to it), but this only further damns the argument that public exposure is a good thing. Sexual appetite is not something that can be satisfied by giving in to it. The only way you can become sexually satisfied is by - through discipline- acquiring contentment. That means either having sex at regular intervals with a spouse, or simply not having sex. When you try to feed your appetite through porn, masturbation, strip clubs, fornication, open “marriage”, or whatever other deviation you can come up, you are only further inflaming your desire and gradually making yourself ever more demanding. The sex drive is not static. It is based on supply and demand. A European male might become conditioned into being less excited by an exposed breasts versus a Muslim, but this simply means his appetite must expand itself to newer limits, and I think you can see a ton of evidence for this in European and Japanese culture (and American culture). The more sexualized a society becomes, the more pathetically desperate and creative they become in trying to please an insatiable appetite that simply grows and mutates. Germany is probably the most nudist-friendly country on the planet. Violent dungeon sex is also very popular there. I suspect there is a connection.
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Sky_River
Guest
Here’s my response to the OP’s question.
In my opinion, anybody (male or female) who deliberately shows off their body, is being indecent and committing sin. Toplessness is wrong, for both genders.
However, there are exceptions to the rule. Sometimes people dress a certain way for water sports or swimming, and they aren’t doing it for the sake of showing off their body. That’s not sinful. However, since there’s no reason why a woman would have to be topless for a water sport or swimming, (other than for the sake of it), then I would consider that to be sinful.
In my opinion, anybody (male or female) who deliberately shows off their body, is being indecent and committing sin. Toplessness is wrong, for both genders.
However, there are exceptions to the rule. Sometimes people dress a certain way for water sports or swimming, and they aren’t doing it for the sake of showing off their body. That’s not sinful. However, since there’s no reason why a woman would have to be topless for a water sport or swimming, (other than for the sake of it), then I would consider that to be sinful.
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Kamaduck
Guest
I can’t say whether toplessness is a sin. It’s definitely imprudent in most cases, but I doubt it’s always a sin (especially if not in mixed company). I’m not really sure what purpose it would serve, though, as many females need some degree of support to move comfortably.
I’ve always thought it was weird that male chests were considered OK, but female chests were not. Call me crazy, but I really don’t understand why one is indecent and the other is fine. However, I accept that most people see a difference, and I behave accordingly. I don’t tell men to put shirts on in summer, because they probably wouldn’t take me seriously. Sometimes it’s just easier to bend to the will of society and let other people do what seems convenient.
In practice, toplessness makes me uncomfortable regardless of who’s exposed. I’m sure I could get used to it if I saw people’s chests all the time, but since I don’t, I just avoid them altogether. I do go swimming with friends, though- for me, going swimming is something that’s so amazingly awkward that awkwardness stops mattering. It makes me really uncomfortable, so I just accept and ignore the uncomfortableness. In any other situation, I avoid people who aren’t wearing many clothes- and that would certainly include toplessness for either gender. Unless your reason for going topless is good enough to convince me to put aside my uncomfortableness, I’m going to avoid you. If you don’t want people to avoid you for similar reasons, you probably shouldn’t be wandering around topless- even if you’re a guy.
Just my :twocents:
I’ve always thought it was weird that male chests were considered OK, but female chests were not. Call me crazy, but I really don’t understand why one is indecent and the other is fine. However, I accept that most people see a difference, and I behave accordingly. I don’t tell men to put shirts on in summer, because they probably wouldn’t take me seriously. Sometimes it’s just easier to bend to the will of society and let other people do what seems convenient.
In practice, toplessness makes me uncomfortable regardless of who’s exposed. I’m sure I could get used to it if I saw people’s chests all the time, but since I don’t, I just avoid them altogether. I do go swimming with friends, though- for me, going swimming is something that’s so amazingly awkward that awkwardness stops mattering. It makes me really uncomfortable, so I just accept and ignore the uncomfortableness. In any other situation, I avoid people who aren’t wearing many clothes- and that would certainly include toplessness for either gender. Unless your reason for going topless is good enough to convince me to put aside my uncomfortableness, I’m going to avoid you. If you don’t want people to avoid you for similar reasons, you probably shouldn’t be wandering around topless- even if you’re a guy.
Just my :twocents:
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Phil_Marinus
Guest
Well…maybe this Thread is going a little overboard…
so I guess I can as well with this statement… All men and Women should cover from head to toe and have only your eyes visible through two small holes in bedsheets,so you can see where your going… this would help both genders from bad thoughts,plus it would help gay people of both genders as well…
so I guess I can as well with this statement… All men and Women should cover from head to toe and have only your eyes visible through two small holes in bedsheets,so you can see where your going… this would help both genders from bad thoughts,plus it would help gay people of both genders as well…
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Kamaduck
Guest
I really don’t understand why people on these boards act like the only options are public nudity or wearing burkas. It’s fine to use the extremes as examples of where a mentality can lead, but the fact of the matter is, there’s a lot of space between “toplessness is immodest” and “people should leave only their eyes uncovered”.
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billcu1
Guest
Breast have definate sexual purpose. We are the only mammals that keep breasts when not lactating. But we are between lower animal nature and God. We need to progress spiritually. Defeat the enemy the animal soul. We still have the yolk sack with babies that was used once. We still have the muscles behind our ears that enabled us to move our ears but few can us them. We have canine teeth that was for once eating meat. Though our digestive system is designed for plants. As JP2 said everything has to flower into something. If breast aren’t for sexual display they have no use as they are except lactation. I personally am very attracted to breasts and they catch my attention before anything
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Rau
Guest
Are you self-conscious-about your own state of attire- or about others? Either way,why do you go swimming then?
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Kamaduck
Guest
Both. But I’m a teenage girl who’s too lazy to shave and isn’t overly comfortable around boys anyway, so it’s par for the course.
I go swimming because water is fun, and it’s a good way to cool off in summer. I’m not going to give that stuff up just because the customary attire makes me uncomfortable. :dts:
Actually, last summer was the first summer I’d gone swimming in several years, because I figured there was no point in doing something for fun if it actually made me uncomfortable. On the other hand, swimming is fun, and I finally decided that it was worth it to me, even if it made me uncomfortable at the same time.
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ClearWater
Guest
Says you.
If that were true, we’d have more perversions and fetishes in the past, but we have more problems now.
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SuperLuigi
Guest
Just be careful about trying too many things you are not comfortable with, especially when it comes to guys.Both. But I’m a teenage girl who’s too lazy to shave and isn’t overly comfortable around boys anyway, so it’s par for the course.
I go swimming because water is fun, and it’s a good way to cool off in summer. I’m not going to give that stuff up just because the customary attire makes me uncomfortable. :dts:
Actually, last summer was the first summer I’d gone swimming in several years, because I figured there was no point in doing something for fun if it actually made me uncomfortable. On the other hand, swimming is fun, and I finally decided that it was worth it to me, even if it made me uncomfortable at the same time.
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SuperLuigi
Guest
I want to say that a woman who is wearing a midriff or low-cut shirt intentionally flaunting it is worse than a topless EU girl at a culturally accepted beach.
I think we’re losing the idea on this threat about how intention relates to morality.
- Status