Is traditional Catholic music dying?

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Hi peeps!!

I was just wondering, how does RCC pic music to play for mass? I notice we have some new worship songs, which is awesome, but I miss the oldies…( Maybe its because I had them memorized lol) Does it go with the homily? Just pondering…;):confused:🤷
 
It is under the authority of the pastor. Since most pastors are not musicians and do not want the onus of picking hymns or service music from week to week, most of that authority is typically delegated to a parish’s music director. The music director would ordinarily be the person to speak to concerning criticisms (or compliments!) about the music.

And I think it is rare for hymns or other variable music (motets, anthems) to be selected so as to match the homily; most commonly, they are selected to complement the readings of the day and/or a special feast or liturgical season that is being celebrated. Of course, since homilies themselves also generally relate to the readings or the feast at hand, it is not surprising that you would often see connections between the homily and the music.
 
I dont think so… Especially with the new translation, since they now have propers again, I hear chant every Sunday mass, they also incorporate many traditional hymns at mass. The choir members said with new new translation, they are not allowed to sing any “protestant” hymns any more, and all should be liturgical…
 
I dont think so… Especially with the new translation, since they now have propers again, I hear chant every Sunday mass, they also incorporate many traditional hymns at mass. The choir members said with new new translation, they are not allowed to sing any “protestant” hymns any more, and all should be liturgical…
Those are all good things, but they are not mandated by anything in the revised English translation. After all, what happened was a new translation of the existing Mass and rubrics, not the creation of a new set of rubrics.
 
Those are all good things, but they are not mandated by anything in the revised English translation. After all, what happened was a new translation of the existing Mass and rubrics, not the creation of a new set of rubrics.
Oh ya?? I think our priest took the opportunity to make our parish more traditional 😛
 
Oh ya?? I think our priest took the opportunity to make our parish more traditional 😛
I expect so. I think two good side-effects of the introduction of the new translation were that it spurred people, especially priests, to go back and read the regulations that they had never really known or had long since forgotten about, and that the very occurrence of a change in one aspect of the celebration of Mass provided justification, or at least cover, for implementing changes in other aspects simultaneously.
 
I expect so. I think two good side-effects of the introduction of the new translation were that it spurred people, especially priests, to go back and read the regulations that they had never really known or had long since forgotten about, and that the very occurrence of a change in one aspect of the celebration of Mass provided justification, or at least cover, for implementing changes in other aspects simultaneously.
I thin the reason why he think we need to chant the propers, is because they are found in the new missal at the order of mass?
 
Of course, since homilies themselves also generally relate to the readings or the feast at hand, it is not surprising that you would often see connections between the homily and the music.
This happens quite a lot. One (or more) of the hymns will match the homily. I’ve mentioned it to the pastor before and he replies,.“That’s nice. I wasn’t really listening.” 😃
 
What I miss is real organ, with pipes. Even pianos sound Baptist to me.

All we get here in Texas is mariachi Mass with guitars, fine for Search but not for grown ppl.
 
What I miss is real organ, with pipes. Even pianos sound Baptist to me.

All we get here in Texas is mariachi Mass with guitars, fine for Search but not for grown ppl.
Funny you should mention this. 🤷

I am a skilled and experienced pianist (I’ve played in churches since I was in grade school) who is classically trained, and I just celebrated one year of taking lessons in pipe organ from the best teacher in our area.

I can now play three hymns. Three hymns. That’s 3 hymns. And one is a Christmas carol.

I can kind of play one of the Bach preludes, but usually I make a lot of mistakes, so I wouldn’t call it ready to go for Mass yet.

And I can play two Vierne pieces, but they are pretty flawed at this point.

I make a lot of mistakes in my hymns, too.

That’s it! Three hymns, a Bach, and two Viernes!

I’m not going to beat around the bush here and drop hints. Straight out, here’s what I’m trying to say here–playing the pipe organ is really hard. Those people who play the “Baptist” instrument called a piano are not likely to be able to switch to the pipe organ.

It’s those darn peddles! Those of us who are pianists have a very difficult time with the pedals. My hands keep trying to play what my feet are supposed to play, and my feet keep missing the pedals and playing mush instead.

Oh, one more thing–it’s costing me $250.00/month for my lessons, plus I’ve spent around $500.00 acquiring a very small collection of organ music.

In our city, there are only a few pipe organ students, and all but one are old (I’m 55). The one who is young is a man in his 20s studying at a Lutheran college and is looking forward to getting hired and receiving a nice salary at one of the large Lutheran churches in the Chicago area.

So if you’re wondering why there isn’t a lot of pipe organ in the Catholic Church these days, maybe my comments will help you understand.

If there are parents reading this who long for “traditional” Catholic Masses, I encourage you to think very seriously about getting your children into pipe organ lessons while they are young. If you don’t, well, then remember this post in ten years when the only Masses you can attend feature piano or guitar only, and most of the Latin Masses are done without any instrumental music.
 
It’s those darn peddles! Those of us who are pianists have a very difficult time with the pedals. My hands keep trying to play what my feet are supposed to play, and my feet keep missing the pedals and playing mush instead.
If you can play with the hands, then you should be able to couple the hand playing with the pedal pipes on some organs. Either that or play a duet with a bass-player. 🙂

Seriously though, you’re right, it’s not easy to play the pedals, even after you learn to do the heel-toe-heel-toe maneuvers. Trills are tough. My bigger problem, however, was turning the pages. 🙂
 
If you can play with the hands, then you should be able to couple the hand playing with the pedal pipes on some organs. Either that or play a duet with a bass-player. 🙂

Seriously though, you’re right, it’s not easy to play the pedals, even after you learn to do the heel-toe-heel-toe maneuvers. Trills are tough. My bigger problem, however, was turning the pages. 🙂
Observing as a classical guitarist, I thought having to do contrapuntal fugue is the most challenging feat to master as an organist. Having to manage three or four voices, in counterpoint with your hands and feet has to be the most intellectually exhausting experience. Always admire an organist though, the special forces of musicians 😃
 
If you can play with the hands, then you should be able to couple the hand playing with the pedal pipes on some organs. Either that or play a duet with a bass-player. 🙂

Seriously though, you’re right, it’s not easy to play the pedals, even after you learn to do the heel-toe-heel-toe maneuvers. Trills are tough. My bigger problem, however, was turning the pages. 🙂
I actually made this suggestion to my organ teacher.

He was not amused. :tsktsk:

As for page turning, I’m considering trying the I-Pad. This was used this season on American Idol by the pianist, and it looks very sleek. However, I’m afraid it the page on the monitor will be too small too read. But I’ll still probably give it a try–it just sounds too convenient to pass up.
 
Observing as a classical guitarist, I thought having to do contrapuntal fugue is the most challenging feat to master as an organist. Having to manage three or four voices, in counterpoint with your hands and feet has to be the most intellectually exhausting experience. Always admire an organist though, the special forces of musicians 😃
The younger you start, the easier it is to train the brain.

My brain is already full of streets and roads and goatpaths, and none of them involve hands and feet playing different passages at the same time!
 
Why not play hymns on the manuals and just ignore the pedals? It is not needed to play chorales on the sonata on the 25th psalm by Ruebke, those things taking 15 minutes or more are for recitals anyway, not Mass.

The reason I mentioned Baptists is I have lot of Baptist relatives, who were always dragging me to church as a child. Most Baptist churches have organs of sorts, but they really prefer the piano with it’s percussive effect. They like fast paced “gospel songs” and dislike hymns.

You never hear the organ played alone, it is an accompanyment to the piano, providing the bass mostly.
 
I’m old school, which is probably why I have a hard time finding a church.

If they ain’t play the stuff before the 1900s…It’s No Good!

When I see churches want to strum their little acoustic guitars…I wanna take them, smash them on the floor, light them on fire…and hop on the pipe organ and shatter glass and eardrums with Gothic hymnals that will scare the living daylights out of the sweater-vest wearing Christians.

I want a Medieval religion, not a Ned Flanders one…I want a religion that ROCKS! Not one that tries an be “hip” (uggg gag me with a spoon!) by being mushy and lame with Banana Republic and Gap written on it.

Give me Bach or nothin’
 
I’m old school, which is probably why I have a hard time finding a church.

If they ain’t play the stuff before the 1900s…It’s No Good!

When I see churches want to strum their little acoustic guitars…I wanna take them, smash them on the floor, light them on fire…and hop on the pipe organ and shatter glass and eardrums with Gothic hymnals that will scare the living daylights out of the sweater-vest wearing Christians.

I want a Medieval religion, not a Ned Flanders one…I want a religion that ROCKS! Not one that tries an be “hip” (uggg gag me with a spoon!) by being mushy and lame with Banana Republic and Gap written on it.

Give me Bach or nothin’
Do you know how to play the organ?
 
Why not play hymns on the manuals and just ignore the pedals? It is not needed to play chorales on the sonata on the 25th psalm by Ruebke, those things taking 15 minutes or more are for recitals anyway, not Mass.

The reason I mentioned Baptists is I have lot of Baptist relatives, who were always dragging me to church as a child. Most Baptist churches have organs of sorts, but they really prefer the piano with it’s percussive effect. They like fast paced “gospel songs” and dislike hymns.

You never hear the organ played alone, it is an accompanyment to the piano, providing the bass mostly.
No, this is wrong for so many reasons.

Why would you be willing to accept a badly-played organ instead of a well-played piano or guitar?

I think a lot of the problems in the Catholic Church have developed over the decades because Catholics are not willing to put in the work to do things they way they should be done, with excellence and beauty. I’m not talking “perfection”–I’m talking doing things right.

First, an organ keyboard is nothing like a piano keyboard, even though they look alike. There is a totally different attack to play the organ, and if a player tries to play the organ like the piano, it sounds simply awful. (I should know by now!) Choppy, puny, and disconnected. Not conducive to worship at all, in fact, distracting because of its wrongness.

Second, there are the registrations. At what settings should the manuals only be played? There should be different settings for different hymns; Joyful Joyful We Adore Thee should not be played with the same registration as Beautiful Savior or Faith of Our Fathers. Echh.

Third, the pedals are not just “extras.” They make the hymns sound full and “masculine.” They complete the chords. Of course there are times when it is appropriate to play only the manuals even on the hymns. But to leave out the pedals just for the sake of having an organ instead of a piano is simply incorrect.

In addition to the pedals, there are other devices on the organ that are played with the feet; e.g., the dynamics pedals. These shouldn’t be ignored. To play all hymns at the same dynamic level would be grating and incorrect.

Finally, there is a progression to playing the organ, and indeed, little children will play the organ on manuals only, as they are usually too small to reach the pedals. But most of the people in attendance at Mass are not little children, they are adults who deserve adult music. Forcing them to listen to children’s music week after week is just not good form.

Again, why in heaven or earth would anyone be willing to accept something that is incorrect?

That kind of thinking has no place in Christian life. If we are willing to go along with an organ played incorrectly, then how many other incorrect things will we be willing to accept? E.g., why not just read a small portion of the Bible instead of considering the passages in context, and why not just read them on our own instead of correlating our studies with the Catholic Church? After all, it’s the Bible, and reading the Bible is good, even if the technique for reading it is totally incorrect, right?! Wrong! This is what many Protestants do–they read the Bible on their own and impose their own interpretations on a Book that was never meant to be studied outside of the safety of the Magisterium.

We should play the organ correctly, the way it is meant to be played. We should fix the problem, not gloss over it with half-measures that meet our immediate desires, but don’t ultimately provide for the needs of the Church.

The fix for the problem is for more children and young people to begin taking organ lessons, and for local parishes to make their organs available at no cost for these young musicians to practice. That’s the answer to the problem of a lack of organ music in our parishes.


If this were done right now, starting today, I guarantee that within a few years, there would be plenty of good organists for all Masses. Children and teens learn a lot faster than people my age, and if they are allowed to play on a regular basis for Mass, even at the earliest stages when they will make mistakes, they will quickly become very skilled.
 
What I miss is real organ, with pipes. Even pianos sound Baptist to me.

All we get here in Texas is mariachi Mass with guitars, fine for Search but not for grown ppl.
At my cathedral in Vancouver, Canada, we have a huge pipe organ that is beautifully played each Sunday (and on other major feasts) - as well as a stunning polyphonic schola/choir… we have 7 Sunday masses, but at the very least at the 11 AM mass (the “high mass” if you will - though it is the Ordinary Form), the propers are always chanted and the ordinary is sung in beautiful polyphony. Traditional Latin music has not died - it is just harder to come by than it once was. For the record, at least half of the faithful (by my estimate), receive holy communion kneeling at the altar rail - both options are permitted in our diocese. Canadian bishops have more flexibility than American ones - these sorts of things will vary from diocese to diocese and even parish by parish. In some parishes in Vancouver (a small minority I must admit) the pastor requires the faithful to receive Our Lord kneeling at the altar rail - which in this diocese is, thankfully, well within his rights :D.
 
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