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LookAWayDixieLd
Guest
What Brotherhrolf said.:clapping:
Is Traditional Catholicism an impediment to The Roman Catholic Church Today?
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choy
Guest
my two cents on this issue,
lets follow the Church for that it teaches. as Catholics, we are supposed to be of one faith and we follow the One Church. one example is the Communion on the hand. if the Church says its okay, then its okay. enough criticizing those who opt to do it. if you must, then petition your bishop to ask for a change. but until the Church makes the change itself, everyone must accept what the Church teaches or allow. after all, the Church collectively is wiser than any of us alone or in small groups, are we to know better? do we think we know better? or is it just pride that makes us think we know better?
lets follow the Church for that it teaches. as Catholics, we are supposed to be of one faith and we follow the One Church. one example is the Communion on the hand. if the Church says its okay, then its okay. enough criticizing those who opt to do it. if you must, then petition your bishop to ask for a change. but until the Church makes the change itself, everyone must accept what the Church teaches or allow. after all, the Church collectively is wiser than any of us alone or in small groups, are we to know better? do we think we know better? or is it just pride that makes us think we know better?
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pnewton
Guest
May he rest in peace. For those who stay mostly in this area of CAF, please join in prayer for this brother.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=6321992#post6321992
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fish90
Guest
O my goodness!
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cathguy
Guest
Thanks for listing this.
Brotherhrolf was a joy to have in the forum.
Requiescat in Pace!
We should take this as a reminder that we are not just dealing with words on a screen, but with real people, and we should work to be as charitable as possible with all those here.
Brotherhrolf was a joy! We are impoverished here because of his loss.
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jkburdette4
Guest
We need to do away with Mass of Vatican 2 and return to Tradtional Latin Mass every Sunday and every day of the week. And start teaching the Baltimore Catchism of Catholic Church
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jkburdette4
Guest
Hi
Michael
I have to agree with you I’m only 31 years old have been attend Tradtional Latin Mass for over 2 years know in Chicago IL. The Mass of Vatican 2 is horriable the focus is taking off Christ the Priest has back against God.
Jason Burdette
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SunnaB16
Guest
Holly @ #31:
Amen. Same sentiments. The OF can be cleaned up; and it will be.
Whatever the videos were like; it
Best wishes to you that you`ll be able to make it in the not-too-distant future. When it happens, take some extra tissues: you may need them to dry your eyes and clear your nose.
They refuse to acknowledge that there were problems pre-VII. As a 55y/o, i remember the pre-VII Church.
For what it
Amen. Same sentiments. The OF can be cleaned up; and it will be.
Whatever the videos were like; it
s unbelievable when youre in the middle of a Solemn High Mass! In my own case, its celebrated every Sunday by the FSSP (gloat! gloat!). You imagine you can feel the Churchs heartbeat!!!Best wishes to you that you`ll be able to make it in the not-too-distant future. When it happens, take some extra tissues: you may need them to dry your eyes and clear your nose.
The hardliners forget that the Mass is the Mass is the Mass; no matter which form. It
s still the Sacrifice of Calvary represented in an unbloody manner. And half of em even deny the validity of the OF…and reject Vatican II outright.They refuse to acknowledge that there were problems pre-VII. As a 55y/o, i remember the pre-VII Church.
That
s my own general feeling when it comes to the hardliners, especially the SSPX promoters. Theyre their own worst enemy. As youve apparently discovered, their feathers are easily ruffled. Its just a pity that the liberals misdirect their sympathies to the wrong causes eg “gay” “marriage”.For what it
s worth: im a POST-Vatican II Traditionalist…that`s if there is such an animal. In other words: a raging modernist to some. So be it.That
s the very thing that shouldnt be done. It should be cleaned up…and the new Missal translation will be a good start. After that: get rid of the altar girls, the abuses etc. Push it towards what the Fathers at Vatican II intended; not what A Bugnini and Co, and their “innovator” successors, inflicted on us.
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jonpd
Guest
Far from being an impediment, I feel that traditional Catholicism may actually save the Church.
I can only speak from my own experience. Until I started attending an EF Mass last year, my family were basically typical Cafeteria Catholics. The EF Mass and the homilies given by the priest made me realize the full richness of Catholic beliefs and also the need to truly repent and follow the Churches’ teachings even those I may have a hard time understanding. We started going to confession more frequently and at the suggestion of the priest started devotions such as the Rosary. I feel that these devotions have given us graces that have enabled us to turn away from sins that were keeping us from God. This would not have happened without the traditional teachings and the EF Mass.
I can only speak from my own experience. Until I started attending an EF Mass last year, my family were basically typical Cafeteria Catholics. The EF Mass and the homilies given by the priest made me realize the full richness of Catholic beliefs and also the need to truly repent and follow the Churches’ teachings even those I may have a hard time understanding. We started going to confession more frequently and at the suggestion of the priest started devotions such as the Rosary. I feel that these devotions have given us graces that have enabled us to turn away from sins that were keeping us from God. This would not have happened without the traditional teachings and the EF Mass.
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white_sheep
Guest
We need a better name than traditional Catholic so that we can fool the liberal modernist heretics, that one is just too obvious.
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MIKE46
Guest
Well of course it is. I’m shocked that such a question was even asked!! It just won’t do at all.
You see without the traditionalists hanging around like an albatross on the neck of the Church by now the Traditional Mass would be long gone and hopefully forgotten, just the way such progressive thinkers as Cardinal Mahoney and numerous others, some on this forum wanted and prayed for. As long as the evil old Traditional Mass was around to tempt the faithful away from the glories of post Vatican II Catholic thought and practice the danger existed that some people would actually prefer it and the ideas of traditional Catholicism.
Believe it or not.
I personally can’t see why people would be so deluded and naive to even think of such a thing; We hear every day on this forum about the horrors of Priests mumbling away in a dead language, of fifteen, ten, five no make them three minute speed Masses, communion on the tongue,
kneeling :bigyikes: versus the superior method of Communion in the hand, standing, as an adult,
the hideous sexism of having only Altar Boys, in place of multi-sexual servers, the absolute need of married and female priests, of the ancient and horrible practice of excluding non Catholics as well as Catholics in a state of mortal sin from receiving Holy Communion and the tragedy of the possibility of losing Lifeteen Masses and all that they entail:crying:, :
Why with traditional Catholicism around we might still think that the Catholic Church is the one true Church:bigyikes:, and not one of many all of whom are valid paths to God. And the biggie, the unmitigated disgrace of not having the Catholic Charismatic Renewal Movement around to convince it’s adherants of the absolute and total requirement that everyone be slain in the spirit, speak in tongues or break in spontaneous spirit filled praise at startegically placed and orchaestrated moments in the Mass, and thus occupy a superior place in the Church to the rest of us laggards…
With the Traditionalists hanging around some people go so far as to call the Communion Table an Altar:bigyikes: and actually believe that the Priest, acting in Personae Christi is presenting the sacrifice to the Father first instead of presiding over a meal. Some people might even still believe that Christ is physically present in the Eucharist and we all know that idea conflicts with what our separated brethren believe and there is no way that we can promote such a thing. What would happen to all the years of hard work trying to convince the protestants that we are all one big happy family?
And while we are at it, lets get rid of all those ugly statues that litter the meeting places as well as those horrible Altar Rails that are popping up all over the place No need to separate the faithful from the Clergy any longer and everyone can joyfully join hands, encircle the Communion Table and pray the Consecration, together
No. No No. I say ban the Traditionalist movement, get rid of the Traditional Mass and everything associated with it so that the real work can begin again of bringing the Church squarely into the modern world.:extrahappy:
Lets stop living in the bad old days. The new springtime has arrived. Drive back the forces of darkness I say and let the sunshine in:thumbsup:
You see without the traditionalists hanging around like an albatross on the neck of the Church by now the Traditional Mass would be long gone and hopefully forgotten, just the way such progressive thinkers as Cardinal Mahoney and numerous others, some on this forum wanted and prayed for. As long as the evil old Traditional Mass was around to tempt the faithful away from the glories of post Vatican II Catholic thought and practice the danger existed that some people would actually prefer it and the ideas of traditional Catholicism.
Believe it or not.
I personally can’t see why people would be so deluded and naive to even think of such a thing; We hear every day on this forum about the horrors of Priests mumbling away in a dead language, of fifteen, ten, five no make them three minute speed Masses, communion on the tongue,
kneeling :bigyikes: versus the superior method of Communion in the hand, standing, as an adult, the hideous sexism of having only Altar Boys, in place of multi-sexual servers, the absolute need of married and female priests, of the ancient and horrible practice of excluding non Catholics as well as Catholics in a state of mortal sin from receiving Holy Communion and the tragedy of the possibility of losing Lifeteen Masses and all that they entail:crying:, :Why with traditional Catholicism around we might still think that the Catholic Church is the one true Church:bigyikes:, and not one of many all of whom are valid paths to God. And the biggie, the unmitigated disgrace of not having the Catholic Charismatic Renewal Movement around to convince it’s adherants of the absolute and total requirement that everyone be slain in the spirit, speak in tongues or break in spontaneous spirit filled praise at startegically placed and orchaestrated moments in the Mass, and thus occupy a superior place in the Church to the rest of us laggards…
With the Traditionalists hanging around some people go so far as to call the Communion Table an Altar:bigyikes: and actually believe that the Priest, acting in Personae Christi is presenting the sacrifice to the Father first instead of presiding over a meal. Some people might even still believe that Christ is physically present in the Eucharist and we all know that idea conflicts with what our separated brethren believe and there is no way that we can promote such a thing. What would happen to all the years of hard work trying to convince the protestants that we are all one big happy family?
And while we are at it, lets get rid of all those ugly statues that litter the meeting places as well as those horrible Altar Rails that are popping up all over the place No need to separate the faithful from the Clergy any longer and everyone can joyfully join hands, encircle the Communion Table and pray the Consecration, together
No. No No. I say ban the Traditionalist movement, get rid of the Traditional Mass and everything associated with it so that the real work can begin again of bringing the Church squarely into the modern world.:extrahappy:
Lets stop living in the bad old days. The new springtime has arrived. Drive back the forces of darkness I say and let the sunshine in:thumbsup:
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ChurchTorch
Guest
The Missa Cantata is not a High Mass – it’s a sung Low Mass.
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mick321
Guest
Originally Posted by **brotherhrolf **
…I get really depressed by some of the posts on this forum. I got taken to task because I wanted to have a Missa Cantata at my cathedral parish where the choir already sings chant and sacred motets in Latin. I was castigated because I did not consign myself to the 9:30 indult TLM (Low Mass) at a local parish even though I have been a fully functional member of my cathedral parish since 1983. What is wrong with me asking to have the same High Mass (Missa Cantata) that I grew up with as the norm in the 50s and 60s?..
Now give it a rest Sport.***
…I get really depressed by some of the posts on this forum. I got taken to task because I wanted to have a Missa Cantata at my cathedral parish where the choir already sings chant and sacred motets in Latin. I was castigated because I did not consign myself to the 9:30 indult TLM (Low Mass) at a local parish even though I have been a fully functional member of my cathedral parish since 1983. What is wrong with me asking to have the same High Mass (Missa Cantata) that I grew up with as the norm in the 50s and 60s?..
***Your arrogance is noted.
Now give it a rest Sport.***
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choy
Guest
Traditional Catholicism is never an impediment to the Church. but there are those who with the wrong attitude use Traditional Catholicism to advance an agenda that makes those who are not Traditional Catholics look more inferior. you can see the threads here and you can see the comments A SMALL FEW have made regarding accepted practices in the Church. calling those practices abusive, disrespectful, etc. what are these people trying to do? make those who hear OF masses, receive with their hands standing up, doesn’t mind girl altar servers, they seek to make all people who fall into these categories inferior and less of a Catholic than they are. and that is just not a very Catholic attituede.
really, you’re saying we are one big Catholic family, then why not speak in a way that you make those who choose OF part of that family. instead of calling their pracitces inferior and disrespectful. many people have become closer to the Lord because of these new practices. if the Church sees they are acceptable, then they are acceptable.
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Lormar
Guest
Preach it, Brother, and hand me one of those guitars, will you?Well of course it is. I’m shocked that such a question was even asked!! It just won’t do at all.
You see without the traditionalists hanging around like an albatross on the neck of the Church by now the Traditional Mass would be long gone and hopefully forgotten, just the way such progressive thinkers as Cardinal Mahoney and numerous others, some on this forum wanted and prayed for. As long as the evil old Traditional Mass was around to tempt the faithful away from the glories of post Vatican II Catholic thought and practice the danger existed that some people would actually prefer it and the ideas of traditional Catholicism.
Believe it or not.
I personally can’t see why people would be so deluded and naive to even think of such a thing; We hear every day on this forum about the horrors of Priests mumbling away in a dead language, of fifteen, ten, five no make them three minute speed Masses, communion on the tongue,
Why with traditional Catholicism around we might still think that the Catholic Church is the one true Church:bigyikes:, and not one of many all of whom are valid paths to God. And the biggie, the unmitigated disgrace of not having the Catholic Charismatic Renewal Movement around to convince it’s adherants of the absolute and total requirement that everyone be slain in the spirit, speak in tongues or break in spontaneous spirit filled praise at startegically placed and orchaestrated moments in the Mass, and thus occupy a superior place in the Church to the rest of us laggards…
With the Traditionalists hanging around some people go so far as to call the Communion Table an Altar:bigyikes: and actually believe that the Priest, acting in Personae Christi is presenting the sacrifice to the Father first instead of presiding over a meal. Some people might even still believe that Christ is physically present in the Eucharist and we all know that idea conflicts with what our separated brethren believe and there is no way that we can promote such a thing. What would happen to all the years of hard work trying to convince the protestants that we are all one big happy family?
And while we are at it, lets get rid of all those ugly statues that litter the meeting places as well as those horrible Altar Rails that are popping up all over the place No need to separate the faithful from the Clergy any longer and everyone can joyfully join hands, encircle the Communion Table and pray the Consecration, together
No. No No. I say ban the Traditionalist movement, get rid of the Traditional Mass and everything associated with it so that the real work can begin again of bringing the Church squarely into the modern world.:extrahappy:
Lets stop living in the bad old days. The new springtime has arrived. Drive back the forces of darkness I say and let the sunshine in:thumbsup:
O
Onegin
Guest
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Lormar
Guest
No, but can you play the bongos?I have to say… I love this post.
Is there still room in the drum circle?
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choy
Guest
okay, wait. lets be fair here. this is not what me or the others have been rambling about in this forumWell of course it is. I’m shocked that such a question was even asked!! It just won’t do at all.
You see without the traditionalists hanging around like an albatross on the neck of the Church by now the Traditional Mass would be long gone and hopefully forgotten, just the way such progressive thinkers as Cardinal Mahoney and numerous others, some on this forum wanted and prayed for. As long as the evil old Traditional Mass was around to tempt the faithful away from the glories of post Vatican II Catholic thought and practice the danger existed that some people would actually prefer it and the ideas of traditional Catholicism.
Believe it or not.
I personally can’t see why people would be so deluded and naive to even think of such a thing; We hear every day on this forum about the horrors of Priests mumbling away in a dead language, of fifteen, ten, five no make them three minute speed Masses, communion on the tongue,
Why with traditional Catholicism around we might still think that the Catholic Church is the one true Church:bigyikes:, and not one of many all of whom are valid paths to God. And the biggie, the unmitigated disgrace of not having the Catholic Charismatic Renewal Movement around to convince it’s adherants of the absolute and total requirement that everyone be slain in the spirit, speak in tongues or break in spontaneous spirit filled praise at startegically placed and orchaestrated moments in the Mass, and thus occupy a superior place in the Church to the rest of us laggards…
With the Traditionalists hanging around some people go so far as to call the Communion Table an Altar:bigyikes: and actually believe that the Priest, acting in Personae Christi is presenting the sacrifice to the Father first instead of presiding over a meal. Some people might even still believe that Christ is physically present in the Eucharist and we all know that idea conflicts with what our separated brethren believe and there is no way that we can promote such a thing. What would happen to all the years of hard work trying to convince the protestants that we are all one big happy family?
And while we are at it, lets get rid of all those ugly statues that litter the meeting places as well as those horrible Altar Rails that are popping up all over the place No need to separate the faithful from the Clergy any longer and everyone can joyfully join hands, encircle the Communion Table and pray the Consecration, together
No. No No. I say ban the Traditionalist movement, get rid of the Traditional Mass and everything associated with it so that the real work can begin again of bringing the Church squarely into the modern world.:extrahappy:
Lets stop living in the bad old days. The new springtime has arrived. Drive back the forces of darkness I say and let the sunshine in:thumbsup:
TLM has a place in the Church, along with OF and all the other Traditional Rites of the Eastern Churches. the issue we’re fighting for here is that some of those who hide behind the guise of Traditional Catholicism berate those who would prefer OF. as Catholics, we should be respectful of one another. ever rite approved by the Church is GOOD and EQUAL. none is greater, none is lesser. if one wants to go to TLM, there should not be an impediment to do so. if one wants to receive communion in his hands, there should not be an impediment to do so. and NO ONE has the right to say one practice is better than the other or that one practice is evil. becaus the Church allows it, how could it be evil or bad? are we questioning our own Church? are we questioning the Church that Jesus built on Peter?
the Church has approved of many ways to celebrate Mass. there are those who feel closer to the Lord in a Mass in their own language, that is good. there are those who feel that Latin in masses make them feel closer to the Lord, that is good as well. and so are the Eastern Rites. what is not good is saying one form is evil, one form is wrong, one form is lesser, etc. that is not for us to decide. fact is, if we know what is good for the Church, then God would have called us into the priesthood and would have guided us to be promoted to Bishops and Cardinals, so that we can take the Church to this direction. but the fact that we were not called, means we would server better as lay people and that we should submit ourselves to the teachings of those Christ has chosen
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fish90
Guest
With all due respect, do you believe God chose some questionable members in the hierarchy before? I thought the Holy Father approves those who are to be Cardinals or bishops in the Latin Rite (but God still calls them to Holy Orders). I could be wrong.
I find the best way to get over the Traditional versus the rest divide is to begin to look at how Vatican II can be found in a “hermeneutic of continuity” as the Holy Father says.
Here is some comments on the “Mass of Vatican II” from Fr. Joseph Fessio.
ignatiusinsight.com/features2005/fessio_massv2_1_jan05.asp
ignatiusinsight.com/features2005/fessio_massv2_2_jan05.asp
Let’s not forget about the “Spirit of Vatican II.”
scdiocese.org/files/Pastoral_Letter_updated100809.pdf
I cannot find that the Church exists today in the way that Vatican II intended. Overemphasis and misinterpretation is what caused this divide between Traditionalists and the rest.
Best,
fish90
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Onegin
Guest
Bongos, tambourine, woodland flute, electric keyboard, soprano saxophone…No, but can you play the bongos?
(Just nothing offensive that has no place in Mass like pipe organs or Gregorian chant or other related nonsense).
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