Is traditional Catholicism on the rise?

[dove51]

From what I know of our current pope, he seems to be more traditionally-minded than some. For example, I love that he approves wholeheartedly of receiving Communion on the tongue while kneeling. I know that this is how he distributes Communion when he celebrates Mass. I was ecstatic about the Motu Propio from last summer. But is this enough? I had thought that a pendulum might be swinging back, but I am having doubts now.

I was wondering if anyone could tell me, is it really possible that traditional Catholicism could be coming back? Or are these changes small in the grand scope of things and unlikely to ever be implemented on a large scale?

 

[Paul_Folbrecht]

From what I know of our current pope, he seems to be more traditionally-minded than some. For example, I love that he approves wholeheartedly of receiving Communion on the tongue while kneeling. I know that this is how he distributes Communion when he celebrates Mass. I was ecstatic about the Motu Propio from last summer. But is this enough? I had thought that a pendulum might be swinging back, but I am having doubts now.

I was wondering if anyone could tell me, is it really possible that traditional Catholicism could be coming back? Or are these changes small in the grand scope of things and unlikely to ever be implemented on a large scale?

I think greater orthodoxy is on its way back, yes.

The old liberal guard is dying off and their ranks are not being replenished. It seems as though the youngest priests are now thoroughly orthodox (and thus obedient) in most areas.

 

[Monica37]

I go to school at night with a lot of very young people. Mainly Catholic, but either away from the church or just going through the motions. Last night I spoke with 2 of them. One of them is trying to learn latin so I suggested that she come to the EF high mass on Sunday so she can hear it. She is away from the church right now and considers herself pagan, but still has great love and respect for the Church. She is very young and very confused. She told me that she used to be very involved in her catholic church, but had no answer to why we pray to saints, what role Mary has and why we need to confess to a priest. I was stunned. How could she have been so involved in church without knowing the barebones basics? She said she left because these things made no sense to her. I tried to answer these questions for her and she said they seemed to make sense now. The other young lady said she goes, but feels disconnected for the same reasons. When we parted ways last night, they seemed very excited about attending Mass with me on Sunday. I think we see a resurgence in orthodoxy because people really do want to know why we do the things we do and not just to feel good. I spoke to them about just that last night. That faith is grounded in logic and reason, not feelings. They both agreed that that made sense.
PS later that evening I was having dinner with a group of women and I think one is planning to attend the EF this weekend as well. She wants her boys to see the mass. I suggested that the boys pay close attention to the altarboys at mass. Her boys serve the mass at their OF mass, so I think they may be particularly interested in seeing the difference.

Long post short, too late, I think young people are hungry for answers, meaning and substance.

 

[TLM08]

As soon as the last of the modernists and hippies die off and retire, the Liturgy will be saved by the new generation of church leaders and priests born after 1970 who are beginning to enter leadership positions right now. Yes, there is hope but it’s going to take a while!

 

[narrowpath]

As a teen, I prefer the more traditional masses to the lifeteen ones, and even the ones where a lot of modern music and style is introduced.

 

[brotherhrolf]

As soon as the last of the modernists and hippies die off and retire, the Liturgy will be saved by the new generation of church leaders and priests born after 1970 who are beginning to enter leadership positions right now. Yes, there is hope but it’s going to take a while!

One of the things I like to point out is that I am a traditional Catholic in that I was baptized in 1951; made my First Holy Communion in 1958; was confirmed in 1963 and was educated within HMC for 13 years supported by my protestant father who worked two jobs to make sure that his Catholic children were properly educated. I was an altar boy until 1968 and just who do you think woke me up and brought me to all those 6am EF Masses I served?

I have never stopped being that which I am. I was never a hippie. I enlisted in the Navy rather than protesting the Vietnam War. I observe that there is a huge misunderstanding between today and that which I experienced as a teenager back in 1969.

There is a concept that is ignored when talking about my generation. It’s called “submitting to the Magesterium of HMC”. Was I happy that in one year’s time in 1968 we went from traditional Catholic hymns to 1969’s “Sons of God”? Or that I am a member of the 100th and final graduating class (1869 -1969) of my Catholic boy’s high school in New Orleans? Do you know how many of us us were appalled that we were made to sing Simon and Garfunkle’s “Sounds of Silence” and “Bridge over Troubled Waters” at our 100th, final graduation Mass with the governor of Louisiana in attendance?

Before you use such a broad brush on my generation, may I suggest that you consider the fact that most of us submitted to the magesterium of HMC. It’s all well and good to turn 40 + years of really radical change and blame it all on my generation. I was never a hippie. I never protested the Vietnam War. When I “won” the lottery in 1971 with a draft number of 63 - I enlisted in the Navy. My Catholic high school was mandatory NJROTC.

The turmoil and questioning evoked in the late 60s did not reflect the attitude of most of us in the pews. I was an altar boy and I was perfectly happy with the TLM. I went through the transition from the TLM to the NO. Every few weeks or so there was an announcement from the pulpit that " two weeks from now we will no longer chant the Gloria in Latin but we will recite it in English".

We, the people in the pews, did not question the Magestirium of HMC. We obeyed. You have experienced the results of 40 + years of upheaval. This is the fact of most Catholics in the pews in 1969. One did not question HMC. One submitted to the Magesterium. I really believe that no one today has any idea of just how strong that concept was in the years after VII.

I submitted to HMC but it took me until 1983 to find a reverent NO parish 25 miles away. I’m not the only one.

From 1983 to 1992 I was a member of a cathedral choir. Our new rector in 1984 said “No Latin”. I have no complaints. There are some really lovely Anglican hymns and anthems. But I submit to you that singing the Pange Lingua on Holy Thursday and the Great Sequences…Christians to the Paschal Victim is not the same as Victimae Paschale Laudes. It is like taking a shower with a raincoat on.

The breaking and telling point came when my diocese celebrated it’s 200th anniversary. At the end of Mass, the Cardinal Archbishop of Lyons, France departed from the script and gave the Apostolic Blessing in Latin. Despite the number of diocesan priests in attendance, there were a few priests and a few old fogies like me in the choir who remembered the responses.

I am not a modernist nor am I a hippy. I submitted to HMC. There are a whole bunch of us out there. Understand the concept of submitting to HMC. Y’all are so used to protesting that it is inconceivable to you that it was inconceivable to us (back then) to protest HMC.

We kept our mouths shut. We did not protest what was happening. One did not protest HMC, one submitted!

 

[barb_finnegan]

Brother Rolf-Hi there! I read your very interesting post. I might be a little older than you-I’m 54-but I went through a very similiar path, growing up in the 60s and 70s.

Unlike you, I was a ‘public school brat’. I went to Mass every Sunday with my family, but stopped going to formal CCD classes when I was in eighth grade. I started reading Church history on my own, as well as the Lives of the Saints.

Like you, I went along with the NO, though I didn’t like the liberal stuff that went with it. When I was in my 20s and got my own car, I went to Mass on my own-attended several different parishes in my Upstate NY hometown. I sang in some choirs, became a lector, and later on a cantor.

Never forgot the Latin Mass, though…I went to a few of them when it was ‘proscribed’ (which SF says was NOT!). Then in 2003 I went back to it fulltime-I was getting tired of seeing the women ‘running the show’ in my last parish! I never liked Communion in the hand, either. So I attended a Latin Mass held in a former convent chapel. I love it! From 2003 till June of this year, we had the FSSP come twice a month-sometimes more. But now they’re not coming, so we have a priest who was in a parish 45 minutes away and is now teaching at the FSSP boys’ academy in PA do the Mass on the same two Sundays that the Fraternity used to do. And lately, there has been a retired priest of the Albany diocese who comes to say our Mass, too.

And I forgot-I NEVER was involved with the ‘hippie’ movement, either!

 

[brotherhrolf]

Hi Barb and welcome to the forums. You’re about my sister’s age. I just turned 57. To this day I receive Communion on my tongue. I would love to kneel. Can only do that at my next door neighbor parish which is my diocese’s indult parish. There is something so “right” about kneeling to receive Our Lord on the tongue.

My reverent cathedral parish of which I have been a member since 1983 doesn’t have a TLM (yet). I was a member of the cathedral choir from '83 to 2001. During our “high Anglican” period (when our rector forbade us to sing Latin and we used the Episcopalian 1940 hymnal as ours) we discovered that our separated brethren translated most of the sequences, etc. from Latin into English. “Christians to the Paschal Victim” is just not the same as “Victimae Paschali Laudes” nor is “Sing my tongue the Savior’s glory” the same as “Pange lingua gloriosi”. As precise as the translations were, it was like taking a shower with a raincoat on. It felt so “right” when we went back to the Latin we knew as kids.

My kids at least got exposed to chant and sacred polyphony and, for the most part, most of the traditions that we grew up with. Sad to say that they would not have gotten these had we not driven 25 miles and remained in our local geographic parish.

OK. I am used to Mass in the vernacular. It can be celebrated reverently. But I feel disjointed with the Mass of my ancestors. Call it an Irish thing. I’ve also waited 40 years for this day. Do I want to go back to 1965. No. Mine being a cathedral parish, I don’t see what would be the harm in having a Solemn High Mass once a month. The choir could handle it and there are more than enough of us old fogies around. I’d have to brush up on the rubrics but I still remember the altar boy’s responses.

It is my fervent hope that traditional Catholicsim is on the rise.

 

[joshhackerspmdo]

Praise the Lord I think it is. I am a 29 year old revert to the church (Deo Gratias) and i am seeing more and more young people and families at the EF mass. As Bud MacFarlane Jr. points out in his book Pierced by a Sword Liberal Catholism was dead when it arrived and the people are urning for a vibratant and true to christ catholic church …I am one of them.

 

[bkovacs]

In my opinion. Very very slowly in the world!. But I can’t really say for sure. My experiences living in eastern PA, look gloomy for traditional Catholicism. So I can only make a determination on what I see and read on the internet.

 

[jayson_bayogo]

I go to school at night with a lot of very young people. Mainly Catholic, but either away from the church or just going through the motions. Last night I spoke with 2 of them. One of them is trying to learn latin so I suggested that she come to the EF high mass on Sunday so she can hear it. She is away from the church right now and considers herself pagan, but still has great love and respect for the Church. She is very young and very confused. She told me that she used to be very involved in her catholic church, but had no answer to why we pray to saints, what role Mary has and why we need to confess to a priest. I was stunned. How could she have been so involved in church without knowing the barebones basics? She said she left because these things made no sense to her. I tried to answer these questions for her and she said they seemed to make sense now. The other young lady said she goes, but feels disconnected for the same reasons. When we parted ways last night, they seemed very excited about attending Mass with me on Sunday. I think we see a resurgence in orthodoxy because people really do want to know why we do the things we do and not just to feel good. I spoke to them about just that last night. That faith is grounded in logic and reason, not feelings. They both agreed that that made sense.
PS later that evening I was having dinner with a group of women and I think one is planning to attend the EF this weekend as well. She wants her boys to see the mass. I suggested that the boys pay close attention to the altarboys at mass. Her boys serve the mass at their OF mass, so I think they may be particularly interested in seeing the difference.

Long post short, too late, I think young people are hungry for answers, meaning and substance.

i can relate to that…

majority (i think) of my friends in my catholic youth group are not well catechized… like you’ve said, they don’t know the basics of their faith… even most leaders of my group don’t know what the Church teaches on some things or issues…

i was once like that… i happen to encounter some anti-catholic stuff that lead me to a 9-month crisis of faith and searching for truth… i almost converted to another sect (good thing there’s a lot of them, i don’t know where or what to join)… i searched, and found the answers to my question in the Catholic Faith (i’m a craddle catholic, and i took it for granted)…

as i’m learning more about the Catholic faith, i notice that i’m becoming more and more conservative… i think i’m becoming more traditionalist (although i’m not comfortable with the labels) in my point of view… i dream that one day i’ll be able to attend a Tridentine Mass…

 

[bpbasilphx]

Something to remember:

Traditionalism is to be sought in prayer, faith, forebearance, patience, and charity as much (if not more) as liturgical observances.

 

[Matariel]

I’m a nineteen-year-old convert to the ancient and holy Catholic Church, and I must say, the more reverent, mysterious (in the Christian sense) and glorious the Mass, the better. No Kitschy sing-songs, only solid, ancient hymns, no adlibbing by the priest, only the proper prayers, I prefer kneeling for Communion, and I believe the more incense, candles, statues, and traditional domestic Catholicism (i.e., family rosary and prayers, domestic altar, images of Christ and the saints, crucifixes in the bedroom, etc., things that make a Catholic home sacred).

I think young people are dying to have a Faith with “ancient stability”, I like to say. Something* real*, ancient, and sacred. I think this is why many young people in the Protestant sects go church-hopping and shopping all the time, because they cannot find the sacred.

But a reverent Catholic church can provide that.

 

[ljl]

Hi, I’m a newcomer to Catholic Forum> There is no question that the catholic Church should be going back to the traditional mass. For me, as I was growing up, I’m now 62, the old Latin reaffirmed my faith in the Catholic, that it was the one, holy, catholic and apostolic faith. After all, wasn’t the mass still in the language of the early christians, and wasn’t the mass in the same language all over the world. The traditions gave me a sense that my Church had stayed true to the doctrines of the Early Fathers through the ages despite all the turmoil. And you know what, kids like all the traditions. They see the physical signs and gestures, they hear the old incantations, and it’s a whole, mysterious new world for them. Now everything is changed, and many people don’t feel at home in their own churches. Too much campfire songs and protestant hymns.

Why is the Jewish faith on the rise? Because it resorts to the old traditions, the Hebrew language (language of Jesus Christ), the menorrah, etc. Children and younger adults can relate to this. As you grow older, it gives a sense and comfort that the faith has never changed,it has remained the same since the days of Jesus Christ.

I’m from Maine, and can you believe that the Bishop about 3 years ago decreed there would be no more votive candles in the churches for insurance purposes. Insurance!!! What does that have to do with our sacred traditions? Let’s just find another insurance company. ljl

 

[Eucharisted]

From what I know of our current pope, he seems to be more traditionally-minded than some. For example, I love that he approves wholeheartedly of receiving Communion on the tongue while kneeling. I know that this is how he distributes Communion when he celebrates Mass. I was ecstatic about the Motu Propio from last summer. But is this enough? I had thought that a pendulum might be swinging back, but I am having doubts now.

I was wondering if anyone could tell me, is it really possible that traditional Catholicism could be coming back? Or are these changes small in the grand scope of things and unlikely to ever be implemented on a large scale?

There is no such thing as traditional Catholicism. There is just Catholicism. Now, if you’re asking if the Church is leaning toward more “pious” practices (Communion on the tongue, Latin in Mass, family Rosary, etc.), than the answer is Yes.

God is working in mysterious ways to combat evil. Where evil rises, grace abounds all the more. That’s the only way I can explain what is beginning to happen in the Church Militant.

 

[Paul_Folbrecht]

I’m a nineteen-year-old convert to the ancient and holy Catholic Church, and I must say, the more reverent, mysterious (in the Christian sense) and glorious the Mass, the better. No Kitschy sing-songs, only solid, ancient hymns, no adlibbing by the priest, only the proper prayers, I prefer kneeling for Communion, and I believe the more incense, candles, statues, and traditional domestic Catholicism (i.e., family rosary and prayers, domestic altar, images of Christ and the saints, crucifixes in the bedroom, etc., things that make a Catholic home sacred).

I think young people are dying to have a Faith with “ancient stability”, I like to say. Something* real*, ancient, and sacred. I think this is why many young people in the Protestant sects go church-hopping and shopping all the time, because they cannot find the sacred.

But a reverent Catholic church can provide that.

Kickin’ post. Young people like you are the future of the Church and I am soo happy to see these trends.

 

[eelpis]

Yes I think so, I talked to a seminarian who studies in Rome, he said that all seminarians and younger priests that he had met were positive toward the TLM some even enthusiastic.

Thinking about brotherolf’s post: Can it be so that the laity has got a more active role now, and we won’t just pray, pay and obey blindly.
Is the old clericalism dead?

 

[brotherhrolf]

We didn’t pray, pay, and obey blindly forty years ago. We submitted to the Magesterium. Submission is a voluntary act.

When the guitars came into my parish in the early 70s, my mother and father stopped attending the 10 am main Sunday Mass at our parish and began attending the 8 am. When the guitars came to the 8 am Mass, they dropped back to the 4:30 Vigil Mass on Saturday.

I have driven 25 miles one way since 1983 to attend a reverent cathedral parish. Had I not submitted to the Magesterium, I would be attending “Mass” at my local “traditional Catholic church” (don’t know the variety since they predate the SSPX) which is not in union with HMC.

The laity does have a more active role today than when I was a boy before Vatican II. But to suggest that all we did back then was obey belies the training that we got at my Catholic boy’s high school during Vatican II and in the years just after. We were prepared to take an active role in our parishes. It has been my experience that many of my classmates (including myself) have done just that.

 

[Matariel]

We didn’t pray, pay, and obey blindly forty years ago. We submitted to the Magesterium. Submission is a voluntary act.

Brotherhrolf is right; there were many good, loyal, devout Catholics who were totally loyal to the Church and weren’t swayed by the liturgical abuses.

When the guitars came into my parish in the early 70s, my mother and father stopped attending the 10 am main Sunday Mass at our parish and began attending the 8 am. When the guitars came to the 8 am Mass, they dropped back to the 4:30 Vigil Mass on Saturday.

They were loyal.

I have driven 25 miles one way since 1983 to attend a reverent cathedral parish. Had I not submitted to the Magesterium, I would be attending “Mass” at my local “traditional Catholic church” (don’t know the variety since they predate the SSPX) which is not in union with HMC.

Brotherhrolf is right. They were not just a bunch of hippie, flower-child peace freaks. There were devout Catholics, too.

 

[CradleCath]

Yes I think so, I talked to a seminarian who studies in Rome, he said that all seminarians and younger priests that he had met were positive toward the TLM some even enthusiastic.

Thinking about brotherolf’s post: Can it be so that the laity has got a more active role now, and we won’t just pray, pay and obey blindly.
Is the old clericalism dead?

We didn’t simply, pray, pay & obey before Vatican II. Catholics have always been concerned & outspoken about their faith. We are passionate about it & I don’t remember a time when we have had a problem speaking with their priest when we felt that something in our parish needed a closer look.

However, when we lost the old Mass, what were we to do? Leave the Church…NOT on your life. We did the best we could with what we had then & prayed for our faith. Looks like it’s finally turning around. Our prayers have been answered & we have a solemn Mass that represents the fullness of the faith. Myself, in two weeks I’ll be attending the ordination of one of our parish’s young priests. The Sunday after that, we are having a potluck dinner after Mass, so that those of us who left liberal Novus Ordo parishes can get to know each other & form our own community. Definitely, Traditional Catholicism is growing here.

About the active role? Let me try to remember…before Vatican II, my parish had a very active Holy Name Society, the Altar Society, the Knights of Columbus, a Catholic school which “accepted” all kinds of help from the women of the parish, two HUGE choirs, a choir director, etc., etc. We did not, however, feel that the priests needed our help in the Sanctuary.

Concerning clericalism, we weren’t like the Catholics that I see in these forums saying, “Right or wrong, I’ll do as my Bishop says”.
We expected more from our clergy than many Catholics do today & we got it.