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eelpis
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Wonderful post, sometimes one has to provoke a bit to get to the truth
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pnewton
Guest
I think this is the key that will help all Catholics regardless of form. Considering the basic meaning of orthodoxy I can’t figure out why it went out.
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JDSinSA
Guest
Traditional Catholicism is definitely on the rise.
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Archangelum
Guest
I think that it will be the only variation left on Catholicism, all the “liberal” interpretations are simply dying out. I was born in 1983 and brought up in an N.O. parish that has now become a ghost parish. Perhaps 10-12 old people will come on sunday (the only mass left) but that’s just because the other churches are too far away for them. Ultra-modern mass, no entrance procession, attacks against the Vatican, lamentable priest, post-1962 church (flat roof, altar in the middle etc) and so on and so on. However, if you go to FSSP or FSSPX churches you will always find young people there. These churches are very full of life.
The “modern church” is melting away and the one, true Catholicism that has been preserved by brave people and priests during the past decades is the last one standing. The meltdown isn’t completed and it will get worse before it gets better but I do want to hope and say that there is light at the end of the tunnel in sight. The downside is that, once the restoration is complete, we will have lost quite a bit of feathers and there will have some be some serious rebuilding to do.
The “modern church” is melting away and the one, true Catholicism that has been preserved by brave people and priests during the past decades is the last one standing. The meltdown isn’t completed and it will get worse before it gets better but I do want to hope and say that there is light at the end of the tunnel in sight. The downside is that, once the restoration is complete, we will have lost quite a bit of feathers and there will have some be some serious rebuilding to do.
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Antonia123
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I have some friends who, when the liturgical changes began in earnest, began to attend an Easter Rite Catholic Church (Ukrainian, in their case.) That liturgy is quite different, but is a traditional rite prayed in the Church for over 1600 years, and wasn’t being “renovated” every other month, like the Western Rite.
They attended that church until the EF appeared again in our diocese.
They attended that church until the EF appeared again in our diocese.
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brotherhrolf
Guest
Indeed, indeed. That’s what has gotten lost over these last 40 years. Everyone assumes that the “folks in the pew” were overjoyed by the Novus Ordo back in the late 60s. Nothing could be further from the truth. We did what we could and we have prayed and hoped that things would turn around. And, thanks to the Holy Father, there is a chance.
We can’t turn the clock back to 1965 nor do I want to. I have met some really, really neat people on these forums who are converts and passionate for their faith. My faith was formed before Vatican II and like CradleCath says “Leave the Church…NOT on your life”. But, I have to admit that given my age, my experience, and my primarily pre-Vatican II Catholic education, I know that my experience and my Catholic education is not what most people have experienced. There’s a whole lot of water under the bridge in these last 40 years. (I needed only to review my sons’ high school religion text books to see that).
So while I view the return of traditional Catholicism (and all the young people who have embraced it) as a sign of “spring”, I just hope that all of us who remember what HMC was like keep in mind “Ubi caritas et amor, Deus ibi est”.
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CradleCath
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You’re right of course, & I try to be charitable. However, when people who did not experience what really happened during the massive changes we struggled through …try to tell me what it was like…my charity wears a little thin.
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brotherhrolf
Guest
I do understand that. Lord, I really do. But, it has been my experience after four years here, that we need to “instruct” those folks. Those of us who submitted to the Magesterium of HMC…we are forgotten.You’re right of course, & I try to be charitable. However, when people who did not experience what really happened during the massive changes we struggled through …try to tell me what it was like…my charity wears a little thin.
Something which has been going through my mind…Good Friday… The Passion of Our Lord according to John. (In English!) I grew up with it after 1962. This is the same Passion chanted in English that I grew up with and the same Passion I hear at my cathedral parish on Good Friday.
We have to think about those of us who “get a pass” and those of us who…
Deus in adjutorium meum intende!
If you think I am gonna solve this, guess agains!
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CradleCath
Guest
I do understand that. Lord, I really do. But, it has been my experience after four years here, that we need to “instruct” those folks. Those of us who submitted to the Magesterium of HMC…we are forgotten.
QUOTE]
Domine ad adjuvandum me festina.
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Paul_Folbrecht
Guest
Would you people please SPEAK ENGLISH!Domine ad adjuvandum me festina.
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Paul_Folbrecht
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(Do I have to say it? It was a joke!)
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preV2tradcath
Guest
V. Deus † in adjutórium meum inténde.
R. Dómine ad adjuvándum me festína.
Glória Patri, et Fílio, et Spirítui Sancto. Sicut erat in princípio, et nunc, et semper, * et in sæcula sæculórum. Amen. Allelúja. V. O God, † make speed to save me.
R. O Lord, make haste to help me.
Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost. As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end. Amen. Alleluia.
The above, part of it quoted elsewhere in this thread, is the beginning of most hours in the traditional breviary.
R. Dómine ad adjuvándum me festína.
Glória Patri, et Fílio, et Spirítui Sancto. Sicut erat in princípio, et nunc, et semper, * et in sæcula sæculórum. Amen. Allelúja. V. O God, † make speed to save me.
R. O Lord, make haste to help me.
Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost. As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end. Amen. Alleluia.
The above, part of it quoted elsewhere in this thread, is the beginning of most hours in the traditional breviary.
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Paul_Folbrecht
Guest
Unfortunately, my Latin is still not strong. I’m happy to say I can easily read the Pater Noster, the Gloria, and Credo and understand every word or at least every phrase. So, the above is pretty easy for me. But, as to understanding the rules and the structure - no, not really.
I had vowed to really learn the language and haven’t done so yet. It’ll happen - I’ve only been attending the EF for ~six months.
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Love_is_Patient
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I’m in my early 20s My faith formation was abysmal at best, but praise God, my parents did ensure that I received the sacrament of Confirmation.
I wear a mantilla to my OF Mass every Sunday, and every Saturday for my Adoration hour.
At the last retreat I attended, the favorite part for every young adult was the Holy Hour.
Is orthodoxy on the rise? I think my generation hungers for it.
Love is Patient
I wear a mantilla to my OF Mass every Sunday, and every Saturday for my Adoration hour.
At the last retreat I attended, the favorite part for every young adult was the Holy Hour.
Is orthodoxy on the rise? I think my generation hungers for it.
Love is Patient
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brotherhrolf
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No. No one in the pews understood Latin back then! My parents would not let me take Latin in high school because it was “irrelevant”. So I took Spanish.So much of Spanish and, indeed, so many English words have their roots in Latin that it is not even funny. The words leap off the pages of the Missal as cognates.
Paul, you don’t have to understand Latin. After I made my First Communion and before I became an altar boy, I can remember my mother’s finger pointing out to me the words at Mass in my Missal. Can I speak Latin? No. Do I understand what the words mean? Yes.
I 've had six years of formal training in Spanish. I can read Spanish fairly fluently. Just don’t ask me to speak it. Latin is pretty much the same way. Read and understand.
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CradleCath
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I took 2 years of Latin in high school. I had an excellent teacher, Mother Mayer RSCJ. Her personality turned me off as she seemed completely devoid of a sense of humor…but there is no doubt that she could teach Latin & boy was she strict. I remember turning in a homework assignment that she felt was “inferior” & she told me that the only way that I could get a passing grade after that “abysmal attempt to parse - Gallia Est Omnis Divisa in Partes Tres” was to get a perfect score on my finals. (Yes, the Sacred Heart nuns had finals in high school. They called them Competitons.) Now, I was an A student & the thought of flunking Latin (or any other subject) had never occured to me. I spent a week burning the midnight oil & I aced the Competion. If one can understand Latin, there is hardly an
So much of Spanish and, indeed, so many English words have their roots in Latin that it is not even funny. The words leap off the pages of the Missal as cognates.
Paul, you don’t have to understand Latin. After I made my First Communion and before I became an altar boy, I can remember my mother’s finger pointing out to me the words at Mass in my Missal. Can I speak Latin? No. Do I understand what the words mean? Yes.
I 've had six years of formal training in Spanish. I can read Spanish fairly fluently. Just don’t ask me to speak it. Latin is pretty much the same way. Read and understand.
English word that they cannot define.
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WanderingThomas
Guest
In response to earlier comments, I am a young person in college and I value the sense of the sacred in the Latin Mass. I believe the sacred traditions are making a slow come back. When I go to Latin Mass I look for a strong sacred foundation to help steady my shaky life.
I took four years of latin in high school but even before that I understood the Latin due to my excellent St. Andrews Missal translations. I believe it is a fallacy that Mass does not mean anything when said in Latin to English-speaking lay people. It allows me to ponder the meanings and the truth or actions behind them.
I took four years of latin in high school but even before that I understood the Latin due to my excellent St. Andrews Missal translations. I believe it is a fallacy that Mass does not mean anything when said in Latin to English-speaking lay people. It allows me to ponder the meanings and the truth or actions behind them.
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CradleCath
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Four years…WOW. I thought that my two years was good, but you’ve got me beat.
So true about the pondering of the deeper meaning beneath the language & especially the actions of the EF. The prayers at the foot of the Altar in which the priests prays for worthiness to approach the Tabernacle & pray the Mass. There is something so touching about the priest asking for forgiveness for his own sins, knowing that he is not worthy to approach the Holy of Holies. but that God will accept his prayers, anyway. And it doesn’t take that many Masses to come to know that
Veni, Sancte Spiritus means Come (Veni) Holy (Sancte) Spirit (Spiritus).
Ora Pro Nobis means Pray for Us, etc., etc. These phrases are used often in the Tridentine Mass.
One doesn’t need to “know” Latin to pick up the meanings of the common phrases at the Latin Mass. Of course, since we use the Latin/English Missal…we don’t have to understand a word, really. Just pray those beautiful ancient prayers in English.
PS. I’m really excited. Our Latin Mass community has grown enough that we’re having a pot-luck dinner after Mass on Nov. 30th…AND…we are now listing the Latin Mass time on our outside announcement board. Our pastor has kept a low profile about this Mass, as some of the other parishes in the city are adamant about celebrating ONLY the OF & are kind of resentful about the people leaving their old parishes for our tradtional, orthodox Mass.
Our Bishop Finn has a small but powerful group opposing him on this, his stand against voting pro-abortion, etc. Pray for us, him especially, but celebrate with us also. Can’t wait for the pot-luck dinner & getting to know my fellow EF. parishioners.
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brotherhrolf
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My bishop, in response to the Motu Proprio, issued a one paragraph response in our diocesan newspaper that stated that he “acknowledged” the Motu Proprio. It was followed in the next issue by a scathing editiorial from the diocesan chancellor who stated that “nobody wanted it”…Very, very chilling effect.
Traditional Catholicism has been on the rise in my parish since 1992 when we celebrated our 200th anniversary and the Cardinal Archbishop of Lyons, France departed from the script and gave the Apostolic Blessing in Latin. It was embarassing. Only about six of us in a choir of 25 knew the responses and, sadly, there weren’t that many of the diocesan priests in attendance who knew either. That “gaff” ended our “Anglican exile” (up until that point we were forbidden from singing Latin. Sing my tongue the Savior’s glory from the 1940 hymnal is like taking a shower with a raincoat on. Happy to say we sing the full Pange Lingua on Holy Thursday).
My kids grew up in a reverent NO parish where they did hear chant and sacred motets. It was amplified at home, of course, I routinely play chant when I am at my calligraphy table and they’ve certainly heard me running around the house singing along with motets and Masses, etc.
My oldest son (27) floored me two years ago. He took it upon himself to learn the plain chant for the Pater Noster and chanted it for me. I have faith the size of a mustard seed. It won’t happen overnight, but, yes, that which I knew as a child will return.
Traditional Catholicism has been on the rise in my parish since 1992 when we celebrated our 200th anniversary and the Cardinal Archbishop of Lyons, France departed from the script and gave the Apostolic Blessing in Latin. It was embarassing. Only about six of us in a choir of 25 knew the responses and, sadly, there weren’t that many of the diocesan priests in attendance who knew either. That “gaff” ended our “Anglican exile” (up until that point we were forbidden from singing Latin. Sing my tongue the Savior’s glory from the 1940 hymnal is like taking a shower with a raincoat on. Happy to say we sing the full Pange Lingua on Holy Thursday).
My kids grew up in a reverent NO parish where they did hear chant and sacred motets. It was amplified at home, of course, I routinely play chant when I am at my calligraphy table and they’ve certainly heard me running around the house singing along with motets and Masses, etc.
My oldest son (27) floored me two years ago. He took it upon himself to learn the plain chant for the Pater Noster and chanted it for me. I have faith the size of a mustard seed. It won’t happen overnight, but, yes, that which I knew as a child will return.
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jeanannemarie
Guest
I am so jealous of all of you who have the opportunity to attend the EF. Here I am, living in a very anti-Catholic, rural Ohio area where we might not even keep our parish open much longer. The irony in this is that my son is a deacon with the Institute of Christ the King and God willing he will be ordained next year. I really feel left out! I am excited tho, because the FSSP has recently started a monthly Mass an hour from where I live. I do not think my diocese is much interested in anything Latin from what I have observed. I haven’t heard anything positive about Latin Masses in my area. I am feeling a little left out as I read your posts.
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