Is transgender a sin?

[kelicious]

If you organize a movement to redefine gender in amorphous ways to destroy the concept of gender, are you in a state of sin?

Yes, I suppose you are.

Gender is not and never has been binary, despite what you were taught.

Do you pay a doctor more money than most families on this planet see in a year or two, to be charitable, so he can cut off your member or slice off fleshy parts of you to add a member?

I’d say you are rather ridiculously indulgent. And I’m not keen on the doctor, either.

Ah so, once again we arrive at the conclusion that because someone else in the world has problems bigger than my own, I’m guilty of some sin for wanting to fix them. I love this guilt trip stuff. Tell you what. You do what Jesus said and give away everything you own, including all of your financial assets, and live on the streets for the rest of your life while you preach on the street corners about the gospel of Jesus, and I’ll start telling my fellow transgender people it’s a sin to complete their transition and discourage them from getting surgery and to take that money they’ve been saving for years and years and send it to some less fortunate person in Nigeria.

Why should anyone care what problems you have dealing with your biological gender? Is it because you have a powerful political lobby? People in this life are born with Down’s Syndrome, or autism, or a whole host of problems.

Why should anyone care about your beliefs? Your religion? Your view of God? Your opinion? Seriously. Really, no one’s asking you to care. No one’s soliciting donations from you to pay for SRS. All anyone is asking for is to do something you’re not willing to do, and that’s take a look at the scientific evidence that has been gathered over the last number of years and realize that you’re kicking people out of the church and condoning family members disowning their own children and siblings – because of a valid medical condition, which it is, whether you want to admit it or not. But hey, keep treating transgender people this way, because it only serves to make your God and your church more irrelevant. If that’s what you want, have at it. It’s been my observation that the church adapts to new findings as science discovers things that weren’t known before, because to not do so certainly means it will take the fast road to irrelevancy as those of us in the real world living real situations and those around us realize just how illogical and outdated church law is. Real life experiences trump subjective beliefs and archaic church laws.

These are unsexy afflictions, however. They do not afford us the opportunity to redefine human relations. At this late date in the broad history of human relations, “transgenders” arrive on the scene to shake our souls!!!

Sure.

And just what constitutes a “sexy” affliction? If you think this is all about sex, glamour, whatever… You’d be very, very wrong. Maybe some are motivated by that, but I’m not and neither are any of my personal acquaintances who also happen to be transgender.

The only attempt being made to “redefine human relations” is to bring them more in line with reality. But hey, like warring tribes who don’t realize that they could actually get along and help each other instead of killing each other, it’s easier and more fun to kill and persecute people you don’t understand out of ignorance… Have fun with that.

 

[Eucharisted]

Is transgender a sin? Why or why not?

Intersexed Identity: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=198372&highlight=gender

What the Church teaches about changing one’s gender: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=255856&highlight=gender

 

[Zoe_Brain]

By that latter, the Church would be using a micrometer… ‘let’s see… 1.4999 inches, she’s female… 1.5001 inches, he’s male… 1.5000 inches, bring me an electron microscope…’

This is silly. It’s inhuman. And “born with both sets of sex organs” is so rare it happens almost as rarely as my own condition. Usually the condition involves not one testis and one ovary, but a pair of ovotestes, neither one thing nor another. There’s some serious ignorance and misconceptions there, although I admire the good Father’s very compassionate attempt to answer. If given some better information, I’m confident that he’d do reasonably well at answering.

Biologically speaking, sex can be judged by a number of factors. Usually all are consistent, well, 98.3% of the time they are.

The factors are:

1. Genitalia - primary sex characteristics
2. Secondary sex characteristics
3. Endocrine (Hormonal) balance
4. Genes, either XX vs XY, or presence/absence of SrY complex
5. Neuroanatomy, sexually dimorphic development of the brain.

So for example, I would be F/F/F/M/F. Without medical treatment, I would have remained ??/F/F/M/F where ?? indicates a bit of a mess.But I needed to have dysfunctional glands removed (one already had pre-cancerous lesions) and my urethra re-plumbed anyway, just so I could urinate normally. As I said, a bit of a mess.

Oh yes, the M in the 4th place is based on blood tests, and there’s evidence that biopsy of some parts of my body (though not others) may have given different results.

Personally, having worked with helping IS and TS people, I believe that only the 5th is important. The neuroanatomy, Hence the instincts, the body languages, the sense of gender identity, the monthly hormonal cycles, the emotional responses, Not so much the traditional gender role stuff, blue for boys and pink for girls, that’s just a “social construct” that is convention, not a result of biology. I always was a bit of a Tomboy, and remain so. This is not about social role, or gender as a mere :social construct", it’s about basic anatomy.

Of the 5, all but one are alterable to some extent by medical intervention. In my own case, the surgery I had for No 1 was more similar to the reconstructions required after radical hysterectomy than a conventional sex reassignment surgery. No 2 changed from natural causes, though I was never completely male in that regard. Number 3 again changed from natural causes. Number 4 is changeable through bone marrow and other organ transplants, though I didn’t have either. But number 5 would involve change at a cellular level, and will be forever out of our reach. For such a change would make a different person.

 

[mystagogia]

Why should anyone care about your beliefs? Your religion? Your view of God? Your opinion? Seriously. Really, no one’s asking you to care.

I dunno, kelicious, why did someone come on here and ask?

 

[JC_in_Dallas]

I will not attempt to speak to the psychological issues involved there are too many. Homosexuality is not in any way connected to transgender surgical changes.
The church accepts transgender people when the chromosome test clearly prove that there is an extra chromosome or chromosome abnormality. We baptized a young man who started the RCIA process as a young women already under pre-surgical treatment.
These are highly complex issues that should be discussed on an individual case basis with competent authority.

 

[goofyjim]

I will not attempt to speak to the psychological issues involved there are too many. Homosexuality is not in any way connected to transgender surgical changes.
The church accepts transgender people when the chromosome test clearly prove that there is an extra chromosome or chromosome abnormality. We baptized a young man who started the RCIA process as a young women already under pre-surgical treatment.
These are highly complex issues that should be discussed on an individual case basis with competent authority.

And the Church accepts celibate homosexuals thereby accepting homosexuality to some degree. Just not the acts.

 

[Doople]

I think changing or waiting is better than committing suicide. Suicide solves nothing.

 

[Doople]

By that latter, the Church would be using a micrometer… ‘let’s see… 1.4999 inches, she’s female… 1.5001 inches, he’s male… 1.5000 inches, bring me an electron microscope…’

This is silly. It’s inhuman. And “born with both sets of sex organs” is so rare it happens almost as rarely as my own condition. Usually the condition involves not one testis and one ovary, but a pair of ovotestes, neither one thing nor another. There’s some serious ignorance and misconceptions there, although I admire the good Father’s very compassionate attempt to answer. If given some better information, I’m confident that he’d do reasonably well at answering.

Biologically speaking, sex can be judged by a number of factors. Usually all are consistent, well, 98.3% of the time they are.

The factors are:

1. Genitalia - primary sex characteristics
2. Secondary sex characteristics
3. Endocrine (Hormonal) balance
4. Genes, either XX vs XY, or presence/absence of SrY complex
5. Neuroanatomy, sexually dimorphic development of the brain.

So for example, I would be F/F/F/M/F. Without medical treatment, I would have remained ??/F/F/M/F where ?? indicates a bit of a mess.But I needed to have dysfunctional glands removed (one already had pre-cancerous lesions) and my urethra re-plumbed anyway, just so I could urinate normally. As I said, a bit of a mess.

Oh yes, the M in the 4th place is based on blood tests, and there’s evidence that biopsy of some parts of my body (though not others) may have given different results.

Personally, having worked with helping IS and TS people, I believe that only the 5th is important. The neuroanatomy, Hence the instincts, the body languages, the sense of gender identity, the monthly hormonal cycles, the emotional responses, Not so much the traditional gender role stuff, blue for boys and pink for girls, that’s just a “social construct” that is convention, not a result of biology. I always was a bit of a Tomboy, and remain so. This is not about social role, or gender as a mere :social construct", it’s about basic anatomy.

Of the 5, all but one are alterable to some extent by medical intervention. In my own case, the surgery I had for No 1 was more similar to the reconstructions required after radical hysterectomy than a conventional sex reassignment surgery. No 2 changed from natural causes, though I was never completely male in that regard. Number 3 again changed from natural causes. Number 4 is changeable through bone marrow and other organ transplants, though I didn’t have either. But number 5 would involve change at a cellular level, and will be forever out of our reach. For such a change would make a different person.

Different parts of your body have different genes? I assume you are mosaic (or jigsaw? The scientific community changes the semantics of this condition too much), made of 2 eggs. If this is true, you and your condition are truly fascinating. Of course, I don’t mean to belittle your suffering. :hug3:

 

[Zoe_Brain]

Different parts of your body have different genes? I assume you are mosaic (or jigsaw?

That’s a Chimera. Mosaics can be of one egg fertilised twice, or a problem with meoisis early on.That’s common with 45x/46xy (mixed gonadal disgenesis), a mixture of Turner Syndrome Female and standard Male. But there are Kleinfelter people with 46xy/47xxy/48xxyy and so on. I think the record is 5 different cell lines.

Personally, I think it doubtful that I have different cell lines, but without very expensive testing, it’s still a possibility. 5%? 10%? No higher, but still way above the 0.1% norm.

Yes, it is fascinating, and no I’m not offended in any way. Thanks for considering my feelings, and the human element. As a scientist though, I don’t mind being my own experimental animal as it were. I can know with no doubt at all that I’m giving informed consent, so there;s no ethical issues.

If I was studying someone else with this condition, I think my compassion for them,would greatly interfere with my objectivity, Sometimes I wonder how anyone could go through a “Natural sex Change”, regardless of circumstances, and still remain whole and sane. Even if it was a blessed release from purgatory. But the psych tests and exams I’ve had confirm it. I breezed through it,

The only psychological abnormalities appears to be a basic euphoria, and a slight obsession with educating others, and helping those with similar conditions. But if illnesses they be, then objectively I don’t want them to be cured.

 

[aspawloski4th]

It appears that right now the church has Gallileo syndrome. He went to jail for teaching the Earth is not the center of the universe. With scientific advancement and study the chrch will come around someday.

 

[aspawloski4th]

It seems to me there was a lack of religius upbringing somewhere along the way and that is how Satan got in.

Antrim

Actually my family has always been unltra religous. Catholic school, no meat on any Fridays, all 8 children with biblical names, lectures at the dinner table about how sinful the reformers were, etc , etc. You judge whoem you do not know. While Im transsexual, I’m very anti abortion, go to Mass every sunday, and even help promote Catholic schools on occasion. But keeping me in a male role will eventually kill me if it goes on indefinitely. Also over time if I stay that way will get less and less functionable, it’s happening now. Howabout instead trying to force certain things to work, just do what works.

 

[JJJ4Eva]

I’d like to say to Antrim, that God has appointed each one of us with a Guardian Angel to protect us against evil. They hold us close at all times and God, as a loving God would not call them off if we were in the midst of “sin” for we are sinners. Saying this does not mean that I think that transgender is a sin, I have no idea about that. But I do believe that to have an attitude that God just leaves you to the wolves when you falter, is a sin against God, for you are judging in His Stead.

 

[Numinous]

I have not been here often the past few weeks, because I am once again homeless.

You’re homeless just like Jesus was! Awesome!

 

[aspawloski4th]

You’re homeless just like Jesus was! Awesome!

Good thing I don’t have you for my friend! Remember Jesus is God and we are talking a different time and different part of the world. I truely hope Pathia is alright. If I were to go homeless now, it would likely be the end of me, because of the sub freezing temperatures where I live and because I’m hypoglycemic. What an awefull attitude to have.

 

[Numinous]

Good thing I don’t have you for my friend! Remember Jesus is God and we are talking a different time and different part of the world. I truely hope Pathia is alright. If I were to go homeless now, it would likely be the end of me, because of the sub freezing temperatures where I live and because I’m hypoglycemic. What an awefull attitude to have.

Whoops! The old Internet-can’t-show-nuance problem.
I also hope pathia is all right, but to be homeless is to be free of all material distractions. I wish I could be homeless.

 

[pathia]

Whoops! The old Internet-can’t-show-nuance problem.
I also hope pathia is all right, but to be homeless is to be free of all material distractions. I wish I could be homeless.

Hardly, I still have to work (Where I am now), I’m not jobless, I just can’t get housing. I also have to worry about being work presentable, despite not having anywhere to sleep, or shower. I also have to take care of my car. I also have to find food. I have to worry about my medical conditions that become severely agitated in cold weather, since I don’t have a home, I’m exposed to it constantly. I’ve already been in the ER twice, I must admit that when I am homeless I am more apt to drop into the ER, because it’s at least warm and they feed you.

 

[Numinous]

Is there no one who can help you? Are there no good Christian people??

 

[pathia]

Is there no one who can help you? Are there no good Christian people??

The last four religious based homeless shelters I tried to use, asked me to leave, because they didn’t want me using either bathroom.

 

[Numinous]

The last four religious based homeless shelters I tried to use, asked me to leave, because they didn’t want me using either bathroom.

If what you say is true, then they are not Christian but just a random collection of self-righteous *******s.

(If I get banned for this post, then this site is also run by the same people.)

 

[pathia]

If what you say is true, then they are not Christian but just a random collection of self-righteous *******s.

(If I get banned for this post, then this site is also run by the same people.)

That is the experience I have had in every ‘christian’ shelter. “It’s not about you, it’s about our concern and safety of the other people here”. Is usually what’s said, but of course what that REALLY means is “We think you might hurt someone”.

statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/local/12/18/1218gale.html

Here’s an article on a trans person that froze to death because of this same situation.