No one has said anything done by an illegal is an illegal. But the wages they earned are a direct result of violating the law. As for children it would certainly make sense to not grant citizenship or access to social welfare because their parents were here illegally. Again I’m not a fan of civil asset forfeiture, but if we are going to have it I think it could apply to illegal wages the same as any other ill gotten gain.
I suppose the real heart of this issue is that many people (myself included) do not see illegal immigration as immoral in the same sense that drug dealing is immoral. Yes, it is against the law. But is it immoral? That is not so clear. Otherwise why would various churches be motivated to provide sanctuary for the undocumented, instead of turning them all in to the government. I can’t imagine a church giving sanctuary to a wanted drug kingpin.
Good boundaries does make for good neighbors, and then you can focus your attention on fixing the problems in their governance. Then you would be helping all their citizens instead of just the 0.5% that entered our country illegally
If you are referring to Robert Frost’s poem, “Mending a Wall”, where the phrase you alluded to was popularized, I suggest you read it again. In that poem, Frost writes that his neighbor says that, but Frost himself is not so sure he is right. He clearly thinks his neighbor has not really thought seriously about the question, but is using the saying about good walls to avoid thinking.
Trespassing, which is what illegal immigration is most like, is clearly immoral, if you believe in private property. Selling drugs is not clearly immoral in so far as what is being sold is a substance which is neither good nor bad intrinsically. It is the drug users who are most immoral since they take a neutral substance and use it for an immoral purpose.
Is it like trespassing if the property had previously been stolen from the country whose people are now trying to trespass? Most of the southwest US used to belong to Mexico.
I don’t think that applies to the US. Mexico ceded property to the US as a result of war, and some land was purchased. If it was stolen it would only apply to that area. A lot of our illegals aren’t even Mexican.
If it is not immoral than it should not be illegal. So you should and those on your side should rally for having pure open borders. No such thing as illegal or such.
I disagree that illegal immigration is like trespassing. Illegal immigrants do not get to take anyone’s private property. They just get the same chance you got to earn some property of their own. No violation of private property is involved.
That is ridiculous they’re brought in so wealthy people can have cheap labor which hurts the working class and increases income inequality. They drive down wages. Many of them receive government assistance which is paid for by middle class tax payers. It’s a scam for wealthy people at the expense of the middle and lower classes.
The poor of our own country also drive down wages. Yet no one is blaming them for it.
The poor of our own country also receive the very same government assistance, yet…
It’s a scam because the immigration laws put illegals at a disadvantage in bargaining for fair wages. They are afraid of being deported, so they accept whatever scraps are tossed their way. That is why they drive down wages. It is because employers know they can take advantage of their vulnerability.
Nonsense. There are lots of things that are illegal but not immoral. For example, in many cities it is illegal to build a garage closer than 2 feet to the property line, or to water your lawn on even days of the month. But they are not immoral.
Please don’t deflect, I’m only referring to the common sense that is self evident in what I said. Heck, any relationship therapist will extol the need for good boundaries.
Sorry. It wasn’t a serious criticism of your post - just an ironic observation. Robert Frost is one of my favorite poets. And in that poem he does question the wisdom of “good fences make good neighbors”.
I agree, but if I find a law not moral I would support its abolition.
And Mexico used to belong to the Aztecs So what?
Yes, the funny thing is the ultimate card of some is the “history” and should we all squeez back where we are from?
Alternatively, where does it all begin? We began by claiming a moral right to exclude people because “this land is our land”. Why is it our land? Because our fathers had this land. And their fathers before them. Which lead us to justifications based on land being stolen. And then to that same land having been stolen even earlier. As you point out, the conclusion is absurd. So by reduction ad absurdum, the premise must have been false. No one and no group has the absolute and exclusive moral right to a region of the earth. We are all stewards enjoying the graces of God - who alone has exclusive and absolute moral right to the land which He created.
Good point. And California until recently used to belong mostly to white people, but is now becoming a Hispanic majority state again. Immigration is a conquest of another kind.
