Is Windows morally acceptable?

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Benedictus:

When I use gcc, bash, or other GNU software, Richard Stallman (RMS) normally doesn’t profit from it since I didn’t actually pay anything for it most of the time. The FSF doesn’t support abortion, although some of its members might. The FSF promotes free software and opposes unjust laws (DMCA, for example). Their work with patent laws is especially noble and is more consistent with Catholic social teaching than current software patent laws (but that’s a topic for another thread). Software patents are scarry.

But some people do pay for Linux. Not everyone gets it for free.

Also Microsoft does not support abortion, Bill Gates does.

At any rate, I would have a hard time living in this world if I only bought products made and sold by people who are pro-life. I recently purchased a new car. I doubt the manufacturer gives money to Planned Parenthood or lobbies for more abortions, but I can be reasonably certain that someone who was involved in designing, making, or selling the car has done something to promote abortion.

As for this almost every corpration out there participates with the United Way which supports Planned Parenthood and other abortion charities.

And then lets look at our insurance plans. Some of them pay for abortions and contraception. In New York State it is mandated that they pay for contraception. Not sure on the abortion issue.

By the way, Linux itself isn’t affliated with the FSF. Linux is the kernel to an Operating System. The FSF started out with the intent of producing an OS called GNU. The FSF wrote all the utilities necessary for an OS, but didn’t have a workable kernel until recently (and that kernel is called Hurd).

Linus Torvalds wrote a kernel now called Linux. Eventually, all the GNU utilities were combined with the Linux kernel and became GNU/Linux (which everyone just calls Linux). The Linux kernel is maintained by Torvalds, not RMS or the FSF.

While ture, bash is the most popular shell in Linux, so much so that the bourne shell (sh) is just really a link to the bash shell.

 

[Benedictus]

ByzCath:

But some people do pay for Linux. Not everyone gets it for free.

People who pay for GNU/Linux give their money to companies like RedHat, Debian, SuSE, etc., not to RMS. Some people (a few people) do buy software from the FSF directly (instead of just downloading it), but they are supporting the FSF, which only indirectly supports RMS.

Also Microsoft does not support abortion, Bill Gates does.

I was under the impression that Micro$oft gives money to Banned Parenthood. I could be wrong.

 

[Brendan]

ByzCath:

Also Microsoft does not support abortion, Bill Gates does.

And actually, it wasn’t even him, it was his Father. And Melinda Gates (a Catholic) put a stop to that years ago.

Take a look at the link I posted re: their current grants. See if there are any that are morally objectionable to a Catholic.

 

[Brendan]

Benedictus:

I was under the impression that Micro$oft gives money to Banned Parenthood. I could be wrong.

The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation gave a large grant to PP in 1998. This was arranged by Bill Gate’s senior (Bill’s father) who was the Chair of that Foundation and is a noted believer in zero population growth.

Melinda Gates (a practicing Catholic) stopped that grant, and others like it in 2002 and has taken a more active role in insuring the morality of their grants.

 

[Brendan]

Benedictus:

People who pay for GNU/Linux give their money to companies like RedHat, Debian, SuSE, etc., .

The political donations of those companies are heaviliy directed towards politicians who are pro-abortion.

That is not true for Microsoft.

End result, the people who pay for Redhat are also funding mostly the Kerry campaign. You buy a copy of Windows, the funds from that goes mostly to Bush.

 

[Greg_McPherran]

Brendan:

And actually, it wasn’t even him, it was his Father. And Melinda Gates (a Catholic) put a stop to that years ago.

Take a look at the link I posted re: their current grants. See if there are any that are morally objectionable to a Catholic.

40 Million dollars in 2003:
gatesfoundation.org/GlobalHealth/ReproductiveChildHealth/Grants/Grant-117_01.htm
Coursework includes “pregnancy termination” and contraception:
jhsph.edu/GatesInstitute/IL/si2005
Note the insult to the Catholic Church:
gatesinstitute.jhsph.edu/whatsnew/presentations/Boston04/jparra.pdf
(Search page to “Surviving conservatism”)
gatesinstitute.jhsph.edu/whatsnew/BostonMarch04.htm
That’s 2004.

Ironically, Robert Kambic who Manages the funds teaches NFP and is associated with the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops. He is also managing funds for contraception and abortion training.
commprojects.jhsph.edu/faculty/detail.cfm?id=46&Lastname=Kambic&Firstname=Robert

You can see that largescale funding is for contraception:
gatesfoundation.org/GlobalHealth/Grants/default.htm?showYear=2003

2004:
gatesfoundation.org/GlobalHealth/ReproductiveChildHealth/Grants/Grant-28318.htm

familycareintl.org/

Melinda may have reduced funding to International Planned Parenthood Federation but the Foundation funds still seem to go towards abortion/abortion training (perhaps reduced) and contraception on a large scale. She is Catholic? I know much of the charities serve good causes but I don’t understand funding for abortion (apparently) and contraception by a Catholic.

Greg

 

[KCT]

I don’t believe I’m morally responsible for how Bill Gates chooses to spend his money. I have a friend who stopped buying Ben and Jerrys ice cream because they support pro choice causes. Fine if she wants to, but does she also boycott Safeway because they sell Ben and Jerry’s? How far does one go? —KCT

 

[Greg_McPherran]

Recent news article about William Gates’ support for embryonic stem cell research:

msnbc.msn.com/id/5831334/

cbsnews.com/stories/2004/08/25/tech/main638572.shtml

 

[Greg_McPherran]

Our Catholic schools and the Archdiocese of Seattle accept grants from the Gates Foundation, yet the Gates Foundation funds abortion and contraception, and William Gates is pushing for embryonic stem-cell research.

How is one to understand this?

Greg

 

[Luke-Jr]

roemer:

Microsoft and Biill Gates are major pro-choice players,

They also license their software under immoral anti-freedom licenses which are specifically designed to restrict the rights of people to modify and share information.

roemer:

so I use Linux (SuSE distribution) for my OS

I tried SuSE a few years ago… Worked decent enough, but I prefer the flexibility of Gentoo.

roemer:

and OpenOffice1.1.1 for my office suite ( it reads and creates MSOffice compatible documents ).

You might want to look into using KOffice. It generally runs much more efficiently (and therefore smoother) and can, of course, save and load almost all office formats.

roemer:

However, I have a multiple boot system with Win98 SE simply because it is occasionaly convenient. Is that morally acceptable ?

No. If there are a few Windows-only applications you need, you can install WINE. WINE provides a compatibility layer for Windows applications. While it will only work on x86-based computers, it’s not much of a limitation since non-x86 computers cannot run Windows anyway.

roemer:

If it is ok, is it even acceptable to pay money for an OS when you can get such a great OS free legally ?

There is nothing wrong with paying money for things as long as it is good. More likely a question than this would be: Is it acceptable to use software without paying/donating what you can afford to its developers?

 

[Luke-Jr]

Benedictus:

Trying to get a printer to work with a non-Windoze system is a real pain because many manufacturers don’t feel like releasing drivers for any other system.

Actually, installing printers is fairly simple if you use KDE.

Benedictus:

Stick with GNU/Linux. While you’re at it, get rid of SuSE. Everyone knows Debian is the best distro.

SuSE is good enough for most people. Gentoo is most definately better than all the others that currently exist, being the only source-based [meta]distro. I’m working on my operating system based on Linux which will combine the power of Gentoo with the ease of SuSE/Lycoris/etc.

Benedictus:

Jason (Windoze free since 2001)

Luke-Jr (Windoze-free since … who knows when)

 

[Luke-Jr]

Benedictus:

Trying to get a printer to work with a non-Windoze system is a real pain because many manufacturers don’t feel like releasing drivers for any other system.

Printers are simple for anyone using KDE and CUPS.

Benedictus:

Stick with GNU/Linux. While you’re at it, get rid of SuSE. Everyone knows Debian is the best distro.

SuSE works decent for most people. Gentoo, being the only source-based distro, is by far superior to all the binary distros. Of course, that’s just until my KDE/GNU/Linux-based OS is complete.

Benedictus:

Jason (Windoze free since 2001)

Luke-Jr (Windoze-free since … who knows when)

 

[Luke-Jr]

Greg_McPherran:

However, GNU/Linux is also a problem. Have you ever seen Richard Stallman’s disrespectful (blasphemous) writings and pictures?

The only problem Stallman has that I can see is that he is anti-life (pro-abortion). I’m relatively convinced (without much investigation) that the primary reason for this is his lack of research/interest in that issue. He is more concerned about computer rights.

stallman.org/saintignucius.jpg
stallman.org/saint.html

These are quite obviously a joke.

Greg_McPherran:

Are you aware that the standard GNU/Linux command shell called “bash” stands for “Bourne Again Shell” !!?? There was a UNIX commad shell called the Bourne Shell and then GNU made this new command shell and calls it the “Bourne Again Shell”.

…and your point is? What is wrong with that name? If you’re going to say that prodestants made up the term “born again”, they also initiated many acts that Catholic converts often use today is Mass. (for example, holding hands for certain parts, receiving communion by hand, …) While a few people have a problem with this, most people have learned to accept it since there is nothing inherently wrong with it.

Greg_McPherran:

Now I don’t know what to do. I do have an idea.

I am a Catholic software engineer and I am thinking of starting a new OS that can be used for our Church and the world. I have written two OS kernels in my career for embedded systems.

Any thoughts? Do people support this? I have a company called Nanothread, LLC I will set up a web are for the Catholic OS project. I would be very excited about this. This could be the beginning of something big!!

I am working on a new operating system (as I mentioned in an earlier reply) based primarily on the KDE, GNU, and Linux projects.

P.S. As a side note, something I just thought of:
PersonA makes millions of dollars practicing abortion.
One day, PersonA dies, leaving all his money to PersonB.
Should PersonB, a Catholic, throw the money away or should he use it to support pro-life work?

Therefore, even if it were an issue that a particular program was originally written by an anti-life activist, there should be nothing wrong with using that program as part of such an OS, unless the program is inherantly evil in itself.

 

[Greg_McPherran]

Hi Luke,

Luke-Jr:

These are quite obviously a joke.

Joke or not, our faith is not to be mocked or trivialized.

Luke-Jr:

…and your point is? What is wrong with that name?

I have no problem with the fact that this term is commonly associated with Protestantism. It is a Catholic truth that is trivialized by use in the name of command shell.

I like having fun with names in the computer world, etc. However, matters of faith are off-limits. It shows a lack of respect.

My Dad was with me some years ago and we were watching an IBM commercial that used Bhuddist monks in chant as part of an some IBM product promotion. My Dad found that to be very disrespectful of what others consider serious.

It’s a matter of respect for our faith and for God.

Greg

 

[coralewis]

Hi Greg,
My husband has a good sense of humor and I believe he meant no harm by laughing at the picture as it should be laughed at. Please take it as the joke it is. God means for us to be happy people and that involves good laughter. I understand your concern but I also think you might need to loosen up and laugh a bit and enjoy yourself as we approach Halloween. I hope to incorporate St. Catherine of Siena somehow into my costume and I mean this to be no dishonor to her. I adore St. Catherine above most other saints, and so this is in no way a mockery. I will try to honor her and the beautiful things she stood for. Thank you for your post. Have a blessed Sunday night.
Cora-Jr, loving wife of Luke

 

[Luke-Jr]

Greg_McPherran:

Joke or not, our faith is not to be mocked or trivialized.

Seriously, even if you insist on not practicing a sensor of humor, you need to realize that other people do and there is nothing wrong with stuff like this. That’d be like saying people who dress up as saints on All Saints Day are mocking them.

Greg_McPherran:

I have no problem with the fact that this term is commonly associated with Protestantism. It is a Catholic truth that is trivialized by use in the name of command shell.

It’s just a name made up in a humorous way. Just because many people name programs either functionally or randomly doesn’t mean all program-namers need to have utmost seriousness in their naming.
The name Bourne Again Shell as a superior Bourne Shell is just as creative humor as the name GNU’s Not Unix (GNU recursively referring to itself) or HIRD of Unix-Replacing Daemons (HURD referring to HIRD, which is defined using HURD: HURD of Interfaces Representing Depth)

Greg_McPherran:

I like having fun with names in the computer world, etc. However, matters of faith are off-limits. It shows a lack of respect.

Only if the reader interprets it that way, which is generally not the case, even if you seem to imply that it is in your case.

Greg_McPherran:

My Dad was with me some years ago and we were watching an IBM commercial that used Bhuddist monks in chant as part of an some IBM product promotion. My Dad found that to be very disrespectful of what others consider serious.

I’m not sure this is really a comment worth replying to, as I don’t see anything wrong with disrespect of cults. Just because some people may believe it doesn’t make it any less a lie. In fact, it might be considered disrespectful to God if you are giving false religions the same respect that He deserves.

Greg_McPherran:

It’s a matter of respect for our faith and for God.

And neither disrespect for false religions nor humorous references to the truth should be considered disrespectful to the one, true God.

Also, incorporating Catholic beliefs into program names or terms may have a positive effect by their entry to nations where the truth is censored or Catholics persecuted.

 

[Greg_McPherran]

Hello Cora and Luke,

I have an excellent sense of humor, however, I consider the context. Richard Stallman is not a Catholic and he opposes many Catholic values:

These are statements by Richard Stallman that are currently on his web-site:

stallman.org
stallman.org/archives/2004-jul-oct.html

“Sainthood in the Church of Emacs requires living a life of purity–but in the Church of Emacs, this does not require celibacy (a sigh of relief is heard).”

“That is no computer disk, that is my halo.”

"Warning: taking the Church of Emacs (or any church) too seriously may be hazardous to your health."

“Islam, like Christianity, is very dangerous,”

“There is no legitimate reason to prohibit prostitution.”

“The bizarre assumption in Bush’s speech is that the existence of homosexual couples ruins marriage for all other Americans.”

stallman.org/archives/2004-mar-jun.html

“Unlike some people, I’m not afraid to say “abortion”. I’m not “pro-choice”, I’m in favor of the right to have an abortion.”

I lose my sense of humor when the person also says seriously that Christianity is dangerous, and promotes abortion, prostitution, and homosexual marriage.

Greg

 

[Luke-Jr]

Greg_McPherran:

I have an excellent sense of humor, however, I consider the context. Richard Stallman is not a Catholic and he opposes many Catholic values:

Even so, just because he may be wrong in some things does not mean he is wrong in others. You might notice that he does not have any of these anti-Catholic-values influence the FSF, GNU, or any of its software.

Greg_McPherran:

These are statements by Richard Stallman that are currently on his web-site:

“Sainthood in the Church of Emacs requires living a life of purity–but in the Church of Emacs, this does not require celibacy (a sigh of relief is heard).”

“That is no computer disk, that is my halo.”

These don’t imply anything but good humor.

Greg_McPherran:

"Warning: taking the Church of Emacs (or any church) too seriously may be hazardous to your health."

“Islam, like Christianity, is very dangerous,”

These do have significant issues, but again, he does not mix them in with FSF/GNU/software.

Greg_McPherran:
“There is no legitimate reason to prohibit prostitution.”

Which there isn’t. The government should not be involved in issues such as this any more than is neccesary for protection of the citizens. This may mean placing many restrictions on such immoral behavior, but would not likely include prohibiting it altogether. God has given man the free will to choose between right and wrong. People should not be forced to make the right decision by other men, but should be convinced to accept the truth on their own.

Greg_McPherran:

“The bizarre assumption in Bush’s speech is that the existence of homosexual couples ruins marriage for all other Americans.”

IMO, the mere existance of a legal definition of “marriage” is what ruins it. Government should not have marriage licenses or any such legal procedures at all.

Greg_McPherran:

“Unlike some people, I’m not afraid to say “abortion”. I’m not “pro-choice”, I’m in favor of the right to have an abortion.”

Obviously, he hasn’t learned to research subjects before speaking on them. RMS is in favor of individual freedom. Had he done the neccesary research on the subject, he would have obviously come to the correct conclusion that it is the child’s right to live.
His fault in this case is that he does not do adequate research. Provided that he fixes that fault, the correct position on abortion would probably follow soon after.

Greg_McPherran:

I lose my sense of humor when the person also says seriously that Christianity is dangerous, and promotes abortion, prostitution, and homosexual marriage

Just because he is claiming that the government should not prevent people from doing things does not mean he is promoting it. But again, none of those are related to his work on software.

 

[Greg_McPherran]

Hi Luke,

One alternative I am considering is PC-DOS or another version of DOS with a boot manager like System Commander (still use Windows for some things) and using DOS as a platform to create a boot block for a new OS. I have written two true multitasking kernels from scratch in the past so I know how to do it.

Any discussion of this should probably be via PM/email since it does not relate to the thread topic.

Greg

 

[Luke-Jr]

Greg_McPherran:

One alternative I am considering is PC-DOS

PC-DOS is no better than any M$ product. It is still proprietary.

Greg_McPherran:

or another version of DOS

FreeDOS, however, is quite morally acceptable.

Greg_McPherran:

with a boot manager like System Commander (still use Windows for some things)

Yet more immoral software… GRUB makes for a nice boot manager. Windows really has no use, even if it was moral.

Greg_McPherran:

and using DOS as a platform to create a boot block for a new OS. I have written two true multitasking kernels from scratch in the past so I know how to do it.

Linux works quite well for now and hopefully the HURD will solve the few problems it has. Neither have any moral problems. If you can manage to write a superior one while sticking with standards (POSIX, etc), I’ll gladly consider it for my OS.

Greg_McPherran:

Any discussion of this should probably be via PM/email since it does not relate to the thread topic

Leaving this post on the thread, since it still includes addressing of Windows and its immorality.