Is Windows morally acceptable?

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Luke-Jr:
Actually, installing printers is fairly simple if you use KDE.
Yes, I use KDE, and setting up printers has become easier over the years, but it can still be a pain. Not all printers have great drivers. Some printers are useful as paperweights and not much else.

I still like debian, even if they do take the stability thing too far.
 
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Benedictus:
Yes, I use KDE, and setting up printers has become easier over the years, but it can still be a pain. Not all printers have great drivers. Some printers are useful as paperweights and not much else.
emerge the GIMP print and foomatic stuff. Multiple drivers for almost every printer in existance. All the common stuff, at least.
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Benedictus:
I still like debian, even if they do take the stability thing too far.
Personally, I don’t see a big issue in Debian’s definitions for stability. The problem is in the very structure of binary distributions. It’s just too inflexible.
 
Also, I don’t think it is unethical to have license fees for software in general. However, I do think we need more options and competition in the OS market.

For example, why must software be allowed to be copied when we don’t allow copying of music or movies?

Greg
 
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Greg_McPherran:
Also, I don’t think it is unethical to have license fees for software in general. However, I do think we need more options and competition in the OS market.

For example, why must software be allowed to be copied when we don’t allow copying of music or movies?

Greg
No that is incorrect.

You are allowed to copy movies and music as long as it is for personal use.
 
Hi David,
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ByzCath:
You are allowed to copy movies and music as long as it is for personal use.
Really? If I but a music CD or movie DVD, I can copy it?

In that case, what is wrong with a software license that allows copying but only for the licensed user?

Greg
 
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Greg_McPherran:
Also, I don’t think it is unethical to have license fees for software in general.
I don’t have a problem with people selling software as long as the license is moral and does not restrict the rights of the user.
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Greg_McPherran:
However, I do think we need more options and competition in the OS market.
Not really. There’s at least 5 different operating systems fully capable of competing with Windoze. Mac OS X is by far the best (user-friendly-wise; morally, it is only partially okay). KDE is also much easier to use than Windoze and there are plenty of KDE-derived operating systems including Mandrake and SuSE (and others that offer it optionally, such as Gentoo and Debian). Windoze is actually only 3rd on the list of easy-to-use desktop environments.
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Greg_McPherran:
For example, why must software be allowed to be copied when we don’t allow copying of music or movies?
Copying software, just like any other information, hurts or deprives nobody of anything. When it comes to information, sharing/copying is inevitable and a right. Music and movies are included in this. They may not be as big an issue, however, since people can break/ignore the unjust laws regulating them. It is technically impossible to obtain the original source code for a program distributed solely as compiled binaries.
Also, as ByzCath pointed out, it is not completely illegal:
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ByzCath:
You are allowed to copy movies and music as long as it is for personal use.
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Greg_McPherran:
Really? If I but a music CD or movie DVD, I can copy it?
Yep, it’s called “fair use”. Of course, the recent Digital Millenium Copyright Act passed by Bill Clinton made it illegal to possess anything that can be used to bypass copy-protection, but this unjust law is also unenforcable: It makes it illegal for DVD players to be morally licensed AND makes everyday magic markers illegal to possess.
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Greg_McPherran:
In that case, what is wrong with a software license that allows copying but only for the licensed user?
The same thing that’s wrong with copyright laws in general-- it restricts a person’s right to modify and share it.
 
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Luke-Jr:
The same thing that’s wrong with copyright laws in general-- it restricts a person’s right to modify and share it.
If I write a book or software, that does not automatically mean someone else a has a right to copy it.
 
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Greg_McPherran:
If I write a book or software, that does not automatically mean someone else a has a right to copy it.
By nature, everyone who then has your book has a right to copy it. There is nothing that either you or they can do to prevent it. Once they read your book, there is a (somewhat distorted, possibly, but perhaps not) copy of it in their memory. Copying to another medium is no different than if they were to recite it from memory to people.
 
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Greg_McPherran:
Hi David,

Really? If I but a music CD or movie DVD, I can copy it?

In that case, what is wrong with a software license that allows copying but only for the licensed user?

Greg
Before copy protection you could copy your software, to make a back up copy incase the media went bad.

Software licensing differs from copy right in that most Software licensing is written in such a way as the maker of the software still owns the software, you are just licensing the use of it for one pc.

As for CD’s, VHS’, and DVD’s, you can make copies for your own use and again, to make a back up.

The issue comes in when you either sell it or give it to others.
 
I avoid Microsoft products because the corporation spends much of its revenues on morally bad things such as abortion and homosexual causes. They are a leader of sorts in providing benefits to homosexual employees. Recently Microsoft has announced they will be spending their big revenues on promoting homosexual legislation. In the past, Microsoft has even won an award from a homosexual group. Links

What about the alternatives? I don’t spend money on free software, so it doesn’t matter what people involved in making it do.

Someone mentioned examining every company. I try to do that to the extent that if a company is using its revenues to do immoral things a lot (enough to win an award), then I will avoid their products.
 
I am not aware of all the details, but I believe that Bill Gates did once support pro-choice groups with money but that he doesn’t do it as much or maybe even at all anymore, perhaps due to the influence of his Catholic wife.
 
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tuopaolo:
I am not aware of all the details, but I believe that Bill Gates did once support pro-choice groups with money but that he doesn’t do it as much or maybe even at all anymore, perhaps due to the influence of his Catholic wife.
I wish this were true, but I don’t find any evidence for him giving up or giving less or his wife having any influence.

Actually Bill Gates’ father William Gates Sr., who used to be head of Planned Parenthood, now operates the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. See this page about Abortion and Microsoft and Bill Gates.

The Gates’ Foundation latest grant (April 2005) is $230,000 to Emory University for an International conference “Lessons Learned From Rights-Based Approaches to Public Health.” Doesn’t right-based public health sound like pro-choice? Maybe I’m not reading it right.
 
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fma:
I wish this were true, but I don’t find any evidence for him giving up or giving less or his wife having any influence.

Actually Bill Gates’ father William Gates Sr., who used to be head of Planned Parenthood, now operates the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. See this page about Abortion and Microsoft and Bill Gates.

The Gates’ Foundation latest grant (April 2005) is $230,000 to Emory University for an International conference “Lessons Learned From Rights-Based Approaches to Public Health.” Doesn’t right-based public health sound like pro-choice? Maybe I’m not reading it right.
I wasn’t at the conference so I don’t know but I don’t see how you can get pro-choice from merely the phrase “rights-based.”
 
This maybe a little off topic, but the whole discussion about Bill Gates being pro-choice and if windows is morally acceptable made me think about an old friend of mine who works for the Roman Catholic Diocese of Vermont as their web designer.

This guy is an Atheist and he is Pro Choice.

My question is this; should he be working for the church?

My answer would be no; especially since his salery is coming from church collections ect…

But, my guess is that the church doesn’t even know his stance when it comes to these issues.

Any thoughts???

I think this should be brought up to the diocese, but just say that they do fire him, isn’t that means for a HUGE lawsuit???
 
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Willdecided:
I think this should be brought up to the diocese, but just say that they do fire him, isn’t that means for a HUGE lawsuit???
Only in a screwed up legal system like the US…
 
Snore…how many times do we rehash this question? Just try and exist in the world and not touch someone, their product, service, social interaction, etc…whose opinions, conduct or values you disagree with. I have a workman in my house as I type this. It wouldn’t even occur to me to quiz him on his values before I let him regrout my shower. How absurd! When you all arrive at the pearly Gates, no pun intended, that’s the day you can KNOW everyone around you is as squeaky clean and well-intentioned as they appear.
 
Island Oak:
I have a workman in my house as I type this. It wouldn’t even occur to me to quiz him on his values before I let him regrout my shower. How absurd!
What if the workman just announced he’s big on “choice” and “population control”?

I didn’t ask Bill Gates.
 
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