Is yoga demonic or no?

[Lost_Wanderer]

I do not know how much of a fallacy it is to appeal to what my mom taught me when I refuse to eat without first washing my hands, or to what the Church taught me when I refuse to profess that the Church enables evil

I don’t know what school you went to but my Jesuit one actually taught me that “Mommy says so” is not enough. The same goes with “Church says so.” You have to validate your reasoning on your own and with facts.

They are not the Church.

Uh, yes they are, in a sense. Fallen-away Catholics are still Catholics. Do I have to cite you my own country’s history of clerical abuses?

Christianity has the fullness of God’s revelation, and is fully preserved in the Catholic Church. We learn from the Catechism the following:

That is not the same as your impression: A mindless machine of piety that narrows every aspect of human culture to the aesthetics of Western/European Christianity.

 

[R_C]

I don’t know what school you went to but my Jesuit one actually taught me that “Mommy says so” is not enough. The same goes with “Church says so.” You have to validate your reasoning on your own and with facts.

Now I get your point! All right. I do this, but I don’t rely too much on my own reasoning

Uh, yes they are, in a sense. Fallen-away Catholics are still Catholics. Do I have to cite you my own country’s history of clerical abuses?
**
No, thanks, I have that of my own country And btw all validly baptized Christians are in the Church, not just Catholics. But individual members are not “the Church”. If someone does not do God’s will, he ceases indeed to be known to Christ (Mt 7, Mt 25, Lk 13) unless he repents and is reconciled with Christ. In the past, we spoke of the Communion of Saints, and us down here were known as the members of the Church Militant (including indeed sinners, but which St. Augustine clearly defines as “putrida membra” (for without sanctifying grace we are dead, see Mt 23). It is a most natural and logic conclusion - as far as I can tell - that a member or a group of members may fall apart and behave wrongly, but that does not mean that the body as a whole is behaving wrongly, nor that it was the body’s intention to behave wrongly, and definitely not the head’s (since the Head of the Church is Christ).**

That is not the same as your impression: A mindless machine of piety that narrows every aspect of human culture to the aesthetics of Western/European Christianity.

That’s your impression that you are attributing to me. Don’t blame me for something I neither wrote nor thought

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

It is a most natural and logic conclusion - as far as I can tell - that a member or a group of members may fall apart and behave wrongly, but that does not mean that the body as a whole is behaving wrongly, nor that it was the body’s intention to behave wrongly, and definitely not the head’s (since the Head of the Church is Christ).

That does not in any shape or form deny the fact that religious authority has been abused. It is wrong yes but to say it is wrong does not change the fact that it has happened and can still happen. Period.

You seem averse to this fact and treat as if our religion is all purity and white cleanliness. Persistence has proven to only damage the Church’s credibility (if it’s not in shambles already).

That’s your impression that you are attributing to me. Don’t blame me for something I neither wrote nor thought

Sorry but unlike you, there is nothing within your statements that can come to your defense. The fact that you openly admit to not rely on your own reasoning only hurts your credibility.

It’s clear that you have thing for deliberately alienating anything that comes off as ‘outside’ Christianity.

More harm has come to this Faith from that attitude than encouraging it.

 

[CrimsonThorn]

That does not in any shape or form deny the fact that religious authority has been abused. It is wrong yes but to say it is wrong does not change the fact that it has happened and can still happen. Period.

You seem averse to this fact and treat as if our religion is all purity and white cleanliness. Persistence has proven to only damage the Church’s credibility (if it’s not in shambles already).

Sorry but unlike you, there is nothing within your statements that can come to your defense. The fact that you openly admit to not rely on your own reasoning only hurts your credibility.

It’s clear that you have thing for deliberately alienating anything that comes off as ‘outside’ Christianity.

More harm has come to this Faith from that attitude than encouraging it.

Umm…our religion IS all purity and white cleanliness, as you describe it. The Catcheism and dogma of our Church is infallibly true and completely pure.

Some people sometimes dont follow that dogma, as you also know. Those people are acting on their own decisions and errors that have nothing to do with the Churh’s beliefs, regardless of who they are. If a priest sins, he sins, but the Church does not preach to go out and sin. This is common sense.

 

[R_C]

The fact that you openly admit to not rely on your own reasoning only hurts your credibility. …] You seem averse to this fact and treat as if our religion is all purity and white cleanliness. Persistence has proven to only damage the Church’s credibility (if it’s not in shambles already).

A few weeks ago I renewed my Profession of Faith, which among other things includes the following:

I adhere with religious submission of will and intellect to the teachings which either the Roman Pontiff or the College of Bishops enunciate when they exercise their authentic Magisterium, even if they do not intend to proclaim these teachings by a definitive act.

I do not exclude my own reasoning, but I submit it to the teaching authority of the Church, knowing how easily I can be lead to error. Experience has showed that every time I do otherwise, I fall into error (often much to my embarrassment).

As for the Church’s credibility, it’s never been too great in the eyes of the secular world…in fact, many and powerful enemies have tried to destroy it or, at least, put it to shame throughout history - and have always failed. Because the Church’s credibility comes from its Head - our Lord Jesus Christ - and from its guide - the Holy Spirit, who is God with the Father and the Son - not from its members, who are sanctified by the received grace. The members can lose the sanctifying grace, hurt others, and be subject to God’s judgment and condemnation…but their sinfulness does not touch the Church…to them She says: “noli me tangere!”, while still reaching with paternal love to them, offering them all means that lead to salvation. We profess the Church to be the “pillar and bulwark of the truth”, our Teacher, our Mother, and the mystical Bride of Christ.

These are basic truths that we ought to defend until the very last days, when Antichrist will be reigning all over the earth and very, very few faithful will be alive.

I have meditated very much today about our posts, and I have come to realize that, even though this was never my intention, you have had the impression that I have a negative attitude towards anything that is not in conformity with, I guess, Western tradition. I do apologize if something in my posts gave you that bitter feeling, for nothing could be farther from the truth.

I am only distrustful of anything that, in my ignorant eyes, does not seem to lead to God through Christ…because I have been taught by our Lord that “whosoever is not with Him is against Him, and whoever does not gather with Him scatters”.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Umm…our religion IS all purity and white cleanliness, as you describe it. The Catcheism and dogma of our Church is infallibly true and completely pure.

I’m not talking about just dogma. I speak of the Church as a whole. The crusades and the inquisitions may be defended as necessary but were they clean? Don’t fool yourself.

I can’t count how many times I have repeated (and its increasingly off-topic at that) that the Church is not exclusive to its spiritual half. It has a human side. A very fallible human side.

And coincidentally, guess who the devil has more access to? He has no need for yoga when blind religious zeal has done as much damage. Actual adherence to Church rule is irrelevant.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Experience has showed that every time I do otherwise, I fall into error (often much to my embarrassment).

That’s your experience. Not mine. It ain’t my fault I do my own homework better.

As for the Church’s credibility, it’s never been too great in the eyes of the secular world…in fact, many and powerful enemies have tried to destroy it or, at least, put it to shame throughout history - and have always failed.

That’s cuz they don’t need to. With people who constantly distort the actual truth (as the anti-yoga camp here has demonstrated), who needs outward bombardment?

Despite the fullness of truth, it’s thanks to those types that it has never been fully expressed. On the contrary, much of the strawmen held by secularists were in fact crafted by the hands of the less-than-educated religious in ages past.

I have meditated very much today about our posts, and I have come to realize that, even though this was never my intention, you have had the impression that I have a negative attitude towards anything that is not in conformity with, I guess, Western tradition. I do apologize if something in my posts gave you that bitter feeling, for nothing could be farther from the truth.

You are contradicting yourself in the following.

I am only distrustful of anything that, in my ignorant eyes, does not seem to lead to God through Christ…because I have been taught by our Lord that “whosoever is not with Him is against Him, and whoever does not gather with Him scatters”.

Me thinks it’s time you re-evaluate your understanding of the Profession which you quoted. It’s not an excuse to commit logical fallacies.

 

[R_C]

I’ve come to realize that it’s pointless to talk to you I’ll keep you advice in mind and pray that you may keep doing good and avoid the snares of the devil.

 

[maxdouglas402]

is there any way to do these poses ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_asanas ) and not call it yoga? or is it impossible to separate the asanas from yoga?

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

is there any way to do these poses ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_asanas ) and not call it yoga? or is it impossible to separate the asanas from yoga?

I think I may have accidentally done some of these more than three times when I was squirming in my seat trying to come up with some marketing ideas for work.

So far no bouts of crab-walking or speaking Aramaic.

Conclusion: Obvious yes is obvious.

 

[agnes_therese]

is there any way to do these poses ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_asanas ) and not call it yoga? or is it impossible to separate the asanas from yoga?

Why shouldn’t it be called yoga, when that’s what it is? But if you like, you can call it anything. Call it George.

I hope you noticed the Corpse pose. I wonder how many of the “yoga is evil” folks do this asana when they sleep?

 

[ringil]

The Vatican exorcist has been very clear on this:

Since we don’t need yoga in our life, we should refrain from it. Christianity has plenty of wonderful paths of meditation that will be far more effective than these nowadays popular panaceas, and even for your specific issues there are plenty of different paths you can follow.

Consider your own words:

Fr. Armorth has stated rock n’ roll is demonic as well.

 

[ringil]

I’ve never had a yoga instructor who did any “chanting.” And instructions are often necessary so you can learn how to the poses; it’s not religious instruction.

I’ve never heard of any chanting either. Maybe some instructors do this but I’ve never seen it.

 

[R_C]

Fr. Armorth has stated rock n’ roll is demonic as well.

Don’t know about rock 'n roll, I sort of like it

However, rock music does seem to have the demonic traits even without Fr. Amorth telling us Perhaps that’s what he was referring to. Of course, who can tell how much is the work of our own mind and how much the work of Satan? All I know is that I am very thankful that by God’s grace I stopped listening to this sort of “music” years ago. I actually had the sad experience of starting to listen to it again and noticing the very same effects - increase in anger and anxiety, desire to snap at people when they did or said something that upset me, and above all else a feeling that focuses your mind on evil and darkness while pushing God and light away. And by the way, to some extent, I have experienced the same symptoms with so-called “Christian rock”, particularly with parts of the song which would remain in my mind and repeat over and over for a significant time

Anyways, with regards to the widespread listening to music through a myriad of different tiny devices, I highly recommend the reading of the sci-fi novel “The Ear-Friend” by Raymond E. Banks, written in 1955.

After you’ve read the novel (that’s if you can find it), try walking around and noticing just how many people around you are listening to some sort of music, which probably has nothing to do, nor is meant to draw one closer to God. Of all things I have watched and read, this humble novel meant to be just another basic sci-fi short story, is so far the scariest thing I have ever read…because I have seen that world come alive around me.

 

[maxdouglas402]

I am very sorry to keep bringing up this topic. Im still searching for the answers.
*
With the popularity of Yoga skyrocketing throughout the world, particularly in the West, there arise two main points in need of clarification. First, that which is practiced as “Hatha Yoga” - a form of Raja Yoga - in much of the Western world is but merely a focus on a single limb of Yoga: asana (posture). From Yoga studios that recommend room temperatures to be maintained at 105 degrees to 90 minute Vinyasa flow classes that prescribe one Suryanamaskar (Sun Salutation) sequence after another, this “asana heavy” form of Yoga – sometimes complemented with pranayama (breathing) – is only a form of exercise to control, tone and stretch muscles. Ignored are both the moral basis of the practice and the ultimate spiritual goal.* \

i got this from the Hindu American Foundation. hafsite.org/media/pr/yoga-hindu-origins

I know i ultimately have to make my own decision with the guidance of God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. I have been tirelessly thinking and searching of an alternative because I want to workout and be healthy! I know the Love of God is sufficient for me. I just want a hobby. Please. Any more advice?

 

[CrimsonThorn]

is there any way to do these poses ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_asanas ) and not call it yoga? or is it impossible to separate the asanas from yoga?

I think I may have accidentally done some of these more than three times when I was squirming in my seat trying to come up with some marketing ideas for work.

So far no bouts of crab-walking or speaking Aramaic.

Conclusion: Obvious yes is obvious.

Look, I don’t mean to keep harping and putting Lost Wanderer on the spot, but his advice on certain issues really needs to be taken in the right context.

In another thread regarding Demons And Angels of the Zodiac, someone asking if it would be a good idea to look into the readings of the 72 Demons of the Goetia, he gave the following advice:

Nah, what you describe is this stuff at its worst.
At best, this is something you can read if you’re bored and need ideas for fanfiction.

which is contrary to

Catechism of the Catholic Church # 2116:

2116 All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to “unveil” the future. Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.

He may just be misinformed or may have ulterior motives in giving his advice. I’d stick to what the RCC says about important issues.

 

[CrimsonThorn]

Fr. Armorth has stated rock n’ roll is demonic as well.

Which isn’t an exaggeration at all. I’m sure you’re unfamiliar with sub-genres such as Black Metal, Death Metal, Doom Metal, but there are thousands upon thousands of those kind of bands who are blatantly profane, hateful, blasphemic, and sometimes even racist.

Calling a band like Black Witchery and their album entitled “Upheaval of Satanic Might” while they vomit on crosses during live shows and throw blood onto the crowd (sometimes even random women’s menstrual blood, obviously showing no signs of concern for their audience’s health), demonic, is not a mis-label by any stretch of the imagination.

Father Amorth knows what he is talking about.

 

[CrimsonThorn]

I wasn’t making this a person thing, he did though. When he said St. Paul was correct and I was wrong. What exactly was I wrong about? I just asked if he thought St. Paul spoke in error? He made it personal when he said I was personally wrong.

Also, I had to make it slightly personal in response because I question this user’s motives on these forums. Go and read more of his posts.

 

[CrimsonThorn]

I would disagree. Usually the things people disagree with him about are seen through earthly eyes and not with the same eyes that Father Amorth’s words are meant to be understood as, as the experiences he has been involved with are hardly earthly. I have yet to see a ridiculous statement made by him.

 

[R_C]

What is “the ultimate spiritual goal”?