Is your Mass in line with Vatican II?

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Asimis said:
No, one is obedient to The Church, not to bishops and even Popes that deviate from it. Think of what happened right before the council of Nicea when all bishops became Arians and only Athanasius remained in the true faith. The arians had taken over the church. Would you say that Athanasius was disobedient and that he should have obeyed the Arians?
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The problem with using this argument here is that the pope and many of the bishops were in exile. Athanasius was not the only one who remained true to the Faith. You’ve left out a few other saints, in fact. The bishops were not teaching in union with the Holy See - no ordinary magisterium at this point and time. This isn’t the case in our Church at this point in history. Now, you then have to ask yourself, who is the arbiter of the teachings of the Church and her disciplines? This is the point at which many people go onto private interpretations and judgments when it’s clearly not their perogative to do so.
We must be careful, there are many bishops who deviate from the true church and introduce their own liberal ideas.
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Your absolutely correct here and you need not follow bishops who are out there doing their own thing such as Cardinal Mahony. This is far different from the bishops in union with Rome.
The Church allows one to go to the Tridentine Mass, that is what I do, so I am not being disobedient to The Church
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Don’t think anyone is saying you are being disobedient if it’s an indult.
Check the two links in my previous post, honestly we should not be supporting the novus ordo, it is hostile to our faith.
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You won’t be surprised if I say that Pastor Aeternus holds a little more weight in my eyes than the above link. We should be submissive to the Holy Father and the disciplines he is the judge over. It’s hostile not to do this!
 
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pnewton:
I did a search and found several articles pertaining to this matter, none of which were impartial sources (like a newspaper). It is logical to question the validity of such a story in light of the fact that most discipline between bishop and priest is not passed on to the laity.

I saw where he stated he would never again celebrate the Novus Ordo. Without knowing details we here will never know, it is possible that he denied that validity of the Mass. If a priest did in fact hold to heresy, it is an act of charity (as you said, “great charity”) to admonish such a one.
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Cardinal Arinze addressed this very kind of a situation with Raymond Arroyo in his recent interview and specifically stated that no priest could simply decide on his own to change a certain timed Mass which he was assigned to say to the TLM without the express permission of his pastor or bishop. If an NO Mass were normally scheduled for that time, then that is what the priest must offer. It is up to the bishop and or pastor depending on the set up in the diocese to approve this change.
 
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HagiaSophia:
Cardinal Arinze addressed this very kind of a situation with Raymond Arroyo in his recent interview and specifically stated that no priest could simply decide on his own to change a certain timed Mass which he was assigned to say to the TLM without the express permission of his pastor or bishop. If an NO Mass were normally scheduled for that time, then that is what the priest must offer. It is up to the bishop and or pastor depending on the set up in the diocese to approve this change.
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So far so good.
Now, Can a priest say the “scheduled” NOM in its Original Latin without a “the express permission of his pastor or bishop” ?
Or, can a superior deny the priest this opition of saying the NOM in it original Latin promulgation?
 
PNewton wrote:
This is not the place to “recruit” for single-minded agendas. I will not check these idiotic links you gave. I am a Catholic and will remain loyal to the Holy Father. Should God want this changed, let Him change it. It is the Holy Spirit that leads the Church. I will attend whatever Mass the Church sets out as the norm.
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Wise words and actions!

The first link is to John Brindle’s website. John was/is a radical Feeneyite/OSJite. That is he subscribes to the radical Feeneyite idea of No Salvation for non water baptized card carrying Catholics, and the second part means that he was/is a member of the spurious Sovereign Military Order of St John of Jerusalem (which falsely claims to be a Catholic Chivalric Order).

You may get a better hold on his ideas at Oh What a Web they Weave and
Brickbat on "Oh What a Web they Weave

The second link is to the Ottaviani Intervention – a letter by cardinals Ottaviani and Bacci subsequent to the initial “Normative Mass”. What radical “traditionalists”, such as Asemis, fail to mention is that Cardinal Ottaviani subsequently repudiated the contents and embraced the Novus Ordo Missae of 1969.

The Ottaviani Intervention was a “brainchild” of the schismatic Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, written principally by the sedevacantist Guerard des Lauriers (who, subsequently obtained consecration by Archbishop Ngo-dinh-Thuc – but, prior to his death reconciled with the Church; what a bunch of worms these guys are!!!)

Read John Lupia on the Ottaviani Intervention, etc at Defense of the Pauline Mass

Sheeesch!
 
Mr S wrote:
The February 2004 issue of Inside the Vatican reprinted an excellant article (VonHildebrand) from the mid-60’s. He nailed it then in his observations on the TLM and the NOM. It is worth reading if anyone knows how to link to it.
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“Inside the Vatican” ALSO published, in the October 2004 issue, “The Prophecies of St Nilus”!

I have, subsequently, pointed out to Dr. Robert Moynihan that these “prophecies” are spurious. NONE of the promoters of the “prophecies” (including “Inside the Vatican”) provide ANY source for the alleged “prophecies”.

Attribution is given to a genuine Saint - St Nilus, who lived in the 5th century. The Catholic Encyclopedia (c. 1912) has an entry on him, but also alludes to the fact of some spurious writings being attributed to him. It makes no mention of “prophecies.”

The alleged prophecies allude to the 1900’s and the middle of that century. The fact is that, in the time of St Nilus, he would NOT have made such a statement, for the very reason that counting in centuries AD would not commence until c. 150 years after his death by Dyonnius Exiguus. Bede the Venerable started the same practice also in the 8th century.

There is a further complication in that the Orthodoc St Nilus the Myrrhstreamer is also attributed with somewhat similar post mortum “prophecies” in the 19th century (he died in the 16th century.) The Orthodox see HIS “prophecies” as being fulfilled in the Russian Revolution in 1917!

The point? Neither “Inside the Vatican” nor the excellent von Hildebrand have ever approached the authority of Popes Paul VI to John-Paul II inclusive.
 
Mr S wrote:
which is against the very Canon Laws we have to inform, to protect, and to keep us strong
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Would you please advise the relative canons?
 
My church has adopted auctstic guitars and alter girls at the 7pm mass on sunday . . . lovely.
 
Eddy Arent wrote:
There you go, same mentality over and over again. Every priest who wants to celebrate the Tridentine Mass are under question of denying the validity of the Novus Ordo. Ask Cardinal Stickler - he’d say that Father’s right to celebrate the Tridentine Mass was never taken away. Unfortunitely, that retired (I believe) bishop in Texas would disagree.
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Neither one cardinal (no matter how eminent), nor a Commission of Cardinals possess the Power of the Keys possesses by a reigning pope.

Shawn McElhinney takes apart Cardinal Stickler at Confusing Culture With ‘Tradition’
 
Sean O L:
PNewton wrote:

Wise words and actions!

The first link is to John Brindle’s website. John was/is a radical Feeneyite/OSJite. That is he subscribes to the radical Feeneyite idea of No Salvation for non water baptized card carrying Catholics, and the second part means that he was/is a member of the spurious Sovereign Military Order of St John of Jerusalem (which falsely claims to be a Catholic Chivalric Order).

You may get a better hold on his ideas at Oh What a Web they Weave and
Brickbat on "Oh What a Web they Weave

The second link is to the Ottaviani Intervention – a letter by cardinals Ottaviani and Bacci subsequent to the initial “Normative Mass”. What radical “traditionalists”, such as Asemis, fail to mention is that Cardinal Ottaviani subsequently repudiated the contents and embraced the Novus Ordo Missae of 1969.

The Ottaviani Intervention was a “brainchild” of the schismatic Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, written principally by the sedevacantist Guerard des Lauriers (who, subsequently obtained consecration by Archbishop Ngo-dinh-Thuc – but, prior to his death reconciled with the Church; what a bunch of worms these guys are!!!)

Read John Lupia on the Ottaviani Intervention, etc at Defense of the Pauline Mass

Sheeesch!
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Bp.des Lauriers also helped write the preparations dogma of the Assumption for Pope Pius XII. He was one of the main movers for this. I don’t support sedevacantists but what he did is great.
Also one of your life’s mission is to get people out of the SSPX and radical traditionalists[not SSPX but sede’s] yet you call them wimps. Charity is trully a NO virtue! Just ask M.Perrin!

Abp.Lefebvre wasn’t “excommunicated” for the Ottoviani Intervention! Somehow that isn’t in Ecclesia Dei, hmm…

Anyways the controversy behind the Ottaviani Intervention is that a secretary forged a letter from the Cardinal when he was blind! But you’ve heard this already haven’t you?
 
Sean O L:
Eddy Arent wrote:

Neither one cardinal (no matter how eminent), nor a Commission of Cardinals possess the Power of the Keys possesses by a reigning pope.

Shawn McElhinney takes apart Cardinal Stickler at Confusing Culture With ‘Tradition’
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Tsk,tsk,tsk
You are attacking a Cardinal! Y’all can’t stand when you are proven wrong by a Prince of the Church but the truth stands and no one can change that!
 
Cardinal Mahony ? Give me a break, what bothers me is Rome being a might quiet regarding his liturgical experiments etc, some might take this non action to mean something else.

Lets be truthful, a majority of bishops in the US of A are moving in the same direction as Cardinal Mahony, sad to say, a sort of schism.

james
 
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katolik:
Bp.des Lauriers also helped write the preparations dogma of the Assumption for Pope Pius XII. He was one of the main movers for this. I don’t support sedevacantists but what he did is great.
Also one of your life’s mission is to get people out of the SSPX and radical traditionalists[not SSPX but sede’s] yet you call them wimps. Charity is trully a NO virtue! Just ask M.Perrin!

Abp.Lefebvre wasn’t “excommunicated” for the Ottoviani Intervention! Somehow that isn’t in Ecclesia Dei, hmm…

Anyways the controversy behind the Ottaviani Intervention is that a secretary forged a letter from the Cardinal when he was blind!*** But you’ve heard this already haven’t you?***
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As we have most things you post. The whole thread is just one more little effort on your part to disturb faithful Catholics and cast aspersions on that fidelity ("does your Mass measure up?"asked with winking innocence). You’re just a little turd stirrer. Your parents should take your computer away from you.
 
Just got into this topic, so I haven’t read all the posts. I’m a little confused, though. The title of the topic is Is your Mass in line with Vatican II? However, the poll question is Is your parish to Vatican II? (I have no idea what that question means).

I couldn’t vote in the poll, as the option I would choose was missing. My parish has a latin Mass, but I don’t attend it. I attend the Life Teen Mass, which is in line Vatican II. We are very careful to follow the full teaching of the Church in our celebration of the sacred Eucharist. :yup:
 
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JKirkLVNV:
As we have most things you post. The whole thread is just one more little effort on your part to disturb faithful Catholics and cast aspersions on that fidelity ("does your Mass measure up?"asked with winking innocence). You’re just a little turd stirrer. Your parents should take your computer away from you.
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I have had been called unfaithful to the Church, many times.
It hurts doesn’t it?

Hey, just because I say that most of Conservative Catholics’ notions of a “good Mass” go against Vatican II, am I wrong?

I have asked many times for my parents to cut off the computer, they never want to! Hey I get the same reaction for virtulent antiCatholics, like Tan2day on other forums.

Tan2Day
ezboard.com/image/cscicon3.gifTan2Day
Main "Foot Washer"
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(3/17/05 10:57)
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ezSupporter
Everforo Re: Better Late Than Never … Huh? Just COUNT the number of RCC churches that focus in on the “BLACK MADDONNA” { utterly of pagan origins } …

SEE how many of them are in this south of France region.
This man is an insane antiCatholic who posts about 50 posts on his forums against Catholics daily.
 
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katolik:
I have had been called unfaithful to the Church, many times.
It hurts doesn’t it?

Hey, just because I say that most of Conservative Catholics’ notions of a “good Mass” go against Vatican II, am I wrong?

I have asked many times for my parents to cut off the computer, they never want to! Hey I get the same reaction for virtulent antiCatholics, like Tan2day on other forums.

Tan2Day
ezboard.com/image/cscicon3.gifTan2Day
Main "Foot Washer"
Posts: 5016
(3/17/05 10:57)
Reply
ezSupporter
Everforo Re: Better Late Than Never … Huh? Just COUNT the number of RCC churches that focus in on the “BLACK MADDONNA” { utterly of pagan origins } …

SEE how many of them are in this south of France region.
This man is an insane antiCatholic who posts about 50 posts on his forums against Catholics daily.
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I didn’t call you “unfaithful.” I called you a “Turd Stirrer,” a fomenter, an agitator, like some of my little fourth grade students who like to carry tales they need not carry, to get a reaction and “stir up the turd.”
 
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katolik:
This man is an insane antiCatholic who posts about 50 posts on his forums against Catholics daily.
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In the world of computing and forums it is really considered bad form to copy posts from one forum to post in another.
 
Well, I’ve heard the Agnus Dei and the Sunctus Dei sung in my church, but that’s about it, and the only reason that I sort of know how to sing them is because they always sing those at school Masses. Can’t think of any other Latin, and I wish I had taken it. Oh well, maybe some day I’ll pick it up.

Eamon
 
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turboEDvo:
Well, I’ve heard the Agnus Dei and the Sunctus Dei sung in my church, but that’s about it, and the only reason that I sort of know how to sing them is because they always sing those at school Masses. Can’t think of any other Latin, and I wish I had taken it. Oh well, maybe some day I’ll pick it up.

Eamon
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Agnus Dei and Sancuts (Eamon… really)— I know other Latin b/c I am a fanatic about learning old languages… plus prayers in Latin are great!

God Bless–JMJ
Laura
 
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Fashina86:
Agnus Dei and Sancuts (Eamon… really)— I know other Latin b/c I am a fanatic about learning old languages… plus prayers in Latin are great!

God Bless–JMJ
Laura
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I love the Anima Christi in Latin! (ok, sorry to hijack)
 
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